ZeRo's current position on Mii rulings

[wizrad]

Oops, I should clarify that I was only speaking of Swordfighters being the exception to the "reach is visual" rule. Weight changes the length of the sword, but has no effect on actual range, while height is the deciding factor of Swordfighter range. Sorry for the poor explanation!

Also, Mew2King said on stream today: "Dude, I wanna main the Mii Brawler, but he's not allowed anywhere. I think I could take Mii Brawler forward" or something close to that. This is why I always liked M2K more~<3

EDIT: WE SHOULD TOTALLY GET M2K TO HELP US GET MIIS LEGAL

 

[PapaJ]

Oops, I should clarify that I was only speaking of Swordfighters being the exception to the "reach is visual" rule. Weight changes the length of the sword, but has no effect on actual range, while height is the deciding factor of Swordfighter range. Sorry for the poor explanation!

Also, Mew2King said on stream today: "Dude, I wanna main the Mii Brawler, but he's not allowed anywhere. I think I could take Mii Brawler forward" or something close to that. This is why I always liked M2K more~<3

EDIT: WE SHOULD TOTALLY GET M2K TO HELP US GET MIIS LEGAL

The thing is Paragon seems to be holding a vote to allow custom miis but with default weight. Last time I checked the results and the voters are saying allow the use of customs on the Miis

Edit: Yeah I found it Although it seems more naysayers have shown up. However around 100 more people want Mii brawlers with customs. The vote can be found here

 

[wizrad]

Yeah, I know about the vote, but didn't they change it to polling only the people that are going? And why wasn't size discussed at all (I've never used Facebook so I don't know how to navigate it lol)? If they allow a custom moveset, they should just allow a custom size, too.

 

[GS3K]

That was the most cringeworthy argument over mii specials I've ever seen.

 

[wizrad]

What, my Pokémon thing? Yeah, it was pretty weird, haha. I was just trying to get across the point that truly competitive players would train to prepare for anything, not try to ban something so they don't have to learn about it.

 

[PapaJ]

I dont think they've made so only people that are going can vote. Unless they make it so people that paid to go already gets access to a unique part of Paragons site that allows for voting I dont think just polling the people that are going will work.

Edit: Adding custom sizes might be asking for too much. If they do allow customs all the Miis become more usable with Brawler getting the most as he is almost unusable with his 1111 setup where as Swordfighter has good enough specials with 1111

 

[GS3K]

What, my Pokémon thing? Yeah, it was pretty weird, haha. I was just trying to get across the point that truly competitive players would train to prepare for anything, not try to ban something so they don't have to learn about it.

Not that, the comments/argument of that facebook poll was just mostly... bad in general. At least the people against it in the thread with nearly 20 pages had (some) decent arguments and not all caps ****posting.

 

[wizrad]

Well, in my opinion, Miis should be allowed one custom moveset and one size, whatever they may be, in a non-customs environment. This puts them in line with the other characters, while acknowledging the fact that Miis are Miis and not Custom Fighters. I just don't understand why people want the Miis to use the guest Miis when that's basically (a) missing the entire point of the character and, more importantly, (b) heavily and unnecessarily nerfing all three of the Miis. Forcing a Mii into the 50/50 or 52/48 size is like banning Sheik's fair combos.

 

[GS3K]

I don't get it either, but people are gonna find stupid things to complain about and shift the goalposts. I just wish people would stop making them rocket science by putting these restrictions on them.

 

[kewl]

I'm one of the biggest TOs in my country, and I main Mii Brawler since Nov. of last year and this is my stance:

Miis should be allowed to use their different move set ups - mostly because the game allows you to use their different setups with "Customs Off" and creating or editing the miis moveset is much quicker than editing your controller map layout. If this was the case, we should all be using DEFAULT CONTROLLER SETUP.

I strongly oppose being able to change the Miis height/weight. These should be the normal default height/weight miis and I oppose basically because of time constraints. Being a TO I know how hard it is to keep the schedule going on track, and importing miis or changing their height/weight really does take a lot of time due to Smash's ridiculous loading times. Me - nor anyone down in Panama - or pretty much down in latinoamerica in general has any problem with the usage of Miis in default size (Guest Miis are right there - just choose one and change their moves). I even have my favorite Guest Mii that I always choose and use (the blonde girl) and I just look at it as if the different guests were other attires I could use for my Mii Brawler. I don't change the clothes or anything, just use the Guest Mii and change their moveset (though, sometimes I might add the cat ears for flavor ).

Honestly, this is the way the ruleset should go. Guest Miis, any moveset. Most competitive Mii mains will use the same moveset anyways so there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to practice the MU anyways if you have Guest Miis in your wii system.

Plus I strongly agree with the fact that in the ruleset it should say: "Customs Off - anything you can do as long as Customs Off is not considered custom."

:D

Just my two cents. USA is looking like it's going to be the only country in the whole world who is going to be banning Miis still - I'm seeing that everywhere else there is no problem.

 

[wizrad]

I'm one of the biggest TOs in my country, and I main Mii Brawler since Nov. of last year and this is my stance:

Miis should be allowed to use their different move set ups - mostly because the game allows you to use their different setups with "Customs Off" and creating or editing the miis moveset is much quicker than editing your controller map layout. If this was the case, we should all be using DEFAULT CONTROLLER SETUP.

I strongly oppose being able to change the Miis height/weight. These should be the normal default height/weight miis and I oppose basically because of time constraints. Being a TO I know how hard it is to keep the schedule going on track, and importing miis or changing their height/weight really does take a lot of time due to Smash's ridiculous loading times. Me - nor anyone down in Panama - or pretty much down in latinoamerica in general has any problem with the usage of Miis in default size (Guest Miis are right there - just choose one and change their moves). I even have my favorite Guest Mii that I always choose and use (the blonde girl) and I just look at it as if the different guests were other attires I could use for my Mii Brawler. I don't change the clothes or anything, just use the Guest Mii and change their moveset (though, sometimes I might add the cat ears for flavor ).

Honestly, this is the way the ruleset should go. Guest Miis, any moveset. Most competitive Mii mains will use the same moveset anyways so there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to practice the MU anyways if you have Guest Miis in your wii system.

Plus I strongly agree with the fact that in the ruleset it should say: "Customs Off - anything you can do as long as Customs Off is not considered custom."

:D

Just my two cents. USA is looking like it's going to be the only country in the whole world who is going to be banning Miis still - I'm seeing that everywhere else there is no problem.

Since you're a TO, would making three Miis (one size for each Fighter) on each console before the event take too much time? It standardizes the characters while buffing them significantly, without much reason against it other than that it might take too much time. You wouldn't have to worry about people importing from 3DSes and competitors wouldn't have to worry about learning the different weights, ranges, and speeds.

 

[kewl]

Since you're a TO, would making three Miis (one size for each Fighter) on each console before the event take too much time? It standardizes the characters while buffing them significantly, without much reason against it other than that it might take too much time. You wouldn't have to worry about people importing from 3DSes and competitors wouldn't have to worry about learning the different weights, ranges, and speeds.

Actually I probably could do that, since I use between 6-8 set ups for my monthlies and each set up is brought by other people in the community it wouldn't be that hard (especially since I talk to the people who lend their set ups everyday).

The hard part would be for bigger tournaments that require more setups, more people brining in their own set up since not all TOs have 20-30 Wii Us just laying around so they could get each one and put each Mii in. It really plays with the time available to host the tournament.

You can talk to the people bringing in their wii us, but again people could complain because let's face it there are many immature people who like to complain alot. It's much easier both for the TO and the community for Customs Off with Guest Miis - like I said, every wii u owns Guest Miis right from the start. No way any one can complain.

 

[wizrad]

I can complain >.> if we're limited to Guest Miis, there will almost always be a circumstance in which I receive an unfavorable result because I was not allowed to use my tiny Brawler because (a) this is usually considered the most optimal and, more importantly, (b) it is what I practice with. From a more argumentative standpoint, there is no reason that Miis should be limited to guest Miis. They are inherently customizable and have no true defaults, and the guest Mii rule is arbitrary. I don't at all disagree that it is easier on you to just use guests, but the rule set shouldn't revolve around what's easiest; it should be around what's best for the meta, and I hardly think arbitrarily handicapping three characters (one of whom could be a threat to the top tiers) is healthy for the meta.

Also, you didn't specify, but did you consider simply getting Smash running on all of the Wii U's and just importing the Miis over via a 3DS? Yeah, you'd have to make the Miis on the 3DS, but you could always have them handy when necessary. Having multiple 3DS's also cuts down on the time required dramatically.

 

[kewl]

First of all you have to start somewhere, and you're not gonna get all at once. Start by trying to get the community to accept Guest Miis first with all their movesets.

Second, I'm talking about people complaining that they don't know the MU vs small brawler etc, which is completely avoidable by having the character be default as a Guest Mii.

I use Guest Mii and have no problem, when I started I used the tiny brawler, but since adapted to the default mii because it's still good and has since started to love it - especially not seeing it a "custom" character since they are in everyone's wiis they always look the same. It's quick to just create it, your opponent sees what specials you are using, and go right into the match.

 

[wizrad]

I suppose there's almost no way we could get all we want at once, but then there's the problem of people who'll say, "don't you have enough?" Like people now, who argue that 1111 guest Mii is more than should be allowed and that all Miis should just be banned because because. Or that guy who was calling me selfish when I was trying to compromise with the majority.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

If it hinders his ability to make a living off it, he'll complain about whatever.

And that's something you have to recognize too: ZeRo makes his living off of winning tournaments. Of course he'll be anti-anything. He'll be anti-customs. He'll be anti-Miis. If it's a risk that he will make less money (or no money), it's something he would advocate against in an instant. Because it's a business decision to him. He sustains himself in the current meta.

And I can't say I don't understand it; I'd be against changes to my financial stability too. But if all Smash 4 is is a business transaction, then I'm clearly here for the wrong reasons.

See THIS. THIS is exactly why people need to stop taking the top player's word as gospel. They have an inherent bias for reasons that should be obvious!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Knowing how quick it can be to set up a Mii without custom height/weight, I've always been a supporter of Guest Mii with any moveset. For a TO, letting people create/transfer Miis could severely hinder a tournaments ability to move smoothly. That's the main issue I hear from TO's, and why Miis seem to be generally banned in the US. Wizrad, you made a comment earlier about wanting to use small Mii because that's what you practice with. If that's your argument, then just start practicing default size Mii instead. It's not that hard. Every time a character gets a hard nerf, players flock to a different character to practice (like ZeRo going from Diddy to Sheik) You need to adapt, and I don't feel there is any way people can convince TO's to allow custom size/weight Miis knowing how much that effects the tourney speed. Take what you can get, fight for Guest Miis with customs movesets, and be happy to have that. The game is balanced enough that you can still do well without being "optimal" size.

 

[Marrow]

Knowing how quick it can be to set up a Mii without custom height/weight, I've always been a supporter of Guest Mii with any moveset. For a TO, letting people create/transfer Miis could severely hinder a tournaments ability to move smoothly. That's the main issue I hear from TO's, and why Miis seem to be generally banned in the US.

I'm definitely no TO, but would it be possible to have Mii transfers done in advance? Those with a unique-sized Mii can send them across before matches begin, and those without can always make a guest Mii if need be.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Idk which tournaments have dozens of players at the door all wanting to play as their Mii.

If there really is one somewhere, you let them do it the first time. You test the waters for how long it actually takes, and if it's manageable. Moreover, if a good chunk of these players think Miis are OP because xxxx said so, you let them meet the rude awakening that it isn't an instant win button, by watching them lose 2-0 in pools and drop out early. Simple.

In fact, if it's clear several of these Mii players are losing super, super hard - like I-dont-know-how-to-play hard - maybe, MAYBE, they were trying to troll the system to force the TO to think it should be discontinued. People will readily put down $5~$10, several times, if it means destroying what they want to destroy.

The few that do push through and place reasonably are the only realistic ones to expect in future endeavors, and likely the only ones you should expect to account for. How many Miis were in recent custom tournaments? Were there thousands, or two? Did they come in first place, or eighth?

but would it be possible to have Mii transfers done in advance?

I imagine it would be (at locals), and this would also allow the TO to check that the available Miis aren't using equipment if it's a custom-on tourney (and quietly remove them).

A theoretical solution for both Miis and customs would be to let the TO just offer a prep session to transfer them and make sure they're named clearly enough that announcers, players, and spectators know what they're dealing with from the word go. This would also solve the ten-slots issue, since I severely doubt there'll ever be a tournament where 11+ players are using the same character with unique customs.

In fact, previous tournaments have kind of proven that a majority won't bother using customs at all unless one or two moves offer a niche mix-up. So I question this prep-time taking very long at locals, if it were offered.

Probably not as viable at national events, however.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I think a big problem is the pre-tourney transfers wouldn't work at larger events. They usually have tons of setups, and you wouldn't know what setups you'd be playing on. Imagine having to transfer your Mii to 20+ consoles pre tourney alongside many others. That'd take hours.

 

[kewl]

I think a big problem is the pre-tourney transfers wouldn't work at larger events. They usually have tons of setups, and you wouldn't know what setups you'd be playing on. Imagine having to transfer your Mii to 20+ consoles pre tourney alongside many others. That'd take hours.

Exactly this is to what I was referring to.

Me being a TO saw the long hours this would/could take, which is why for the longest time I've switched to default size/guest miis - and mostly fight for legal guest miis with all their movesets.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Just my two cents. USA is looking like it's going to be the only country in the whole world who is going to be banning Miis still - I'm seeing that everywhere else there is no problem.

Umm... uhh...

*Begins waving American flag wildly*

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

...Wait, no, something tells me that's the wrong time to act like a super patriot. Oops.

EDIT: More helpfully, QR codes can set up legal Miis of different sizes before the event. The Custom Moveset Project made some codes for this very reason. Or the player can just do their 3DS transfer on the spot, on the machine they're playing with currently. Either way wouldn't take long.

 

[T0MMY]

I strongly oppose being able to change the Miis height/weight. These should be the normal default height/weight miis and I oppose basically because of time constraints.

You do realize there's absolutely no major time issue with uploading personalized Mii with a 3DS (takes about a minute)?
Now that you do realize this you can remove the restriction on the Mii fighters and state that Mii can both be made with the Guest Mii AND with a 3DS transfer.
Problem solved.

Honestly, this is the way the ruleset should go.

A competitive ruleset would allow for all characters to be exploited to their fullest potential.

Plus I strongly agree with the fact that in the ruleset it should say: "Customs Off - anything you can do as long as Customs Off is not considered custom."

Thanks, because I've been contacted TOs all around to inform them that should be the ruling for the game settings. It's slowly changing.

Just my two cents. USA is looking like it's going to be the only country in the whole world who is going to be banning Miis still - I'm seeing that everywhere else there is no problem.

I can't name a major tournament that has banned Miis within the USA, can you?
The worst thing that's happened is the arbitrary move ruling which is slowly being undone. And I am making sure the height/weight option is allowed as well - time constraint misinfo is slowly being dispelled too.

 

[kewl]

I can't name a major tournament that has banned Miis within the USA, can you?
The worst thing that's happened is the arbitrary move ruling which is slowly being undone. And I am making sure the height/weight option is allowed as well - time constraint misinfo is slowly being dispelled too.

I pretty much meant that - no where else in the world do I know that Miis are banned or restricted.

Umm... uhh...

*Begins waving American flag wildly*

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

...Wait, no, something tells me that's the wrong time to act like a super patriot. Oops.

EDIT: More helpfully, QR codes can set up legal Miis of different sizes before the event. The Custom Moveset Project made some codes for this very reason. Or the player can just do their 3DS transfer on the spot, on the machine they're playing with currently. Either way wouldn't take long.

I'm also American, just living outside of the US taking care of family.

 

[T0MMY]

I pretty much meant that - no where else in the world do I know that Miis are banned or restricted.

Oh, you meant banned or restricted?
But did you say you strongly oppose being able to change the height/weight of Mii fighters in your events?*

Location should not matter when it comes to competition, as the spirit of competition is universal.
I believe in competitive values that favor a fair and free battle - fair for all competitors and free to exploit the game to its fullest potential to reward the player with the greatest skill with the game.

No rule restricting the competition should be enforced unless warranted with due process.​

As it is, the Mii characters should be fully explored up until a flaw be found which then can be addressed - it is not proper to assume a guilty verdict before due process is weighed.

 

[kewl]

Oh, you meant banned or restricted?
But did you say you strongly oppose being able to change the height/weight of Mii fighters in your events?*

Location should not matter when it comes to competition, as the spirit of competition is universal.
I believe in competitive values that favor a fair and free battle - fair for all competitors and free to exploit the game to its fullest potential to reward the player with the greatest skill with the game.

No rule restricting the competition should be enforced unless warranted with due process.​

As it is, the Mii characters should be fully explored up until a flaw be found which then can be addressed - it is not proper to assume a guilty verdict before due process is weighed.

Yes I oppose to mii fighter height/weight due to time constraints, like i've said previous times in the past.

 

[T0MMY]

Knowing how quick it can be to set up a Mii without custom height/weight, I've always been a supporter of Guest Mii with any moveset. For a TO, letting people create/transfer Miis could severely hinder a tournaments ability to move smoothly.

You do realize it takes about the same amount of time to upload a Mii from a 3DS as it does making a Guest Mii with a personalized moveset - actually, it could be faster depending how long people take setting up their Guest Mii.

Your one and only reason for restricting a character was a concern supposedly about "severely" hindering a tournament to "move smoothly".
More so, the only "concern" seems to be on pure speculation that there might possibly be some kind of setback with scheduling, but there is no foundation on this supposed concern (appears to be needless worry considering practically nobody plays the Mii fighters to begin with meaning practically zero time will be used regarding them).

So when faced with the reality that uploading a personalized Mii from a 3DS does not severely hinder tournaments and can be faster than making guest Miis, it seems to suggest that you are in support of letting people create/transfer Miis.

Is this the case?

Yes I oppose to mii fighter height/weight due to time constraints, like i've said previous times in the past.

There are no time constraints regarding Mii fighters. A 3DS upload takes a couple minutes and stays on the console all packaged up with personalized controls and a controller synced to be used - it might even save time for someone to do this instead of setting up their controller configuration & name tag.
If time constraints is your reason for restricting/banning a character than you don't have any reason to do so. How many players in your tournaments even use Mii fighters besides yourself? I'm going to guess nearly none - making the time constraints argument a little silly.

 

[kewl]

There are no time constraints regarding Mii fighters. A 3DS upload takes a couple minutes and stays on the console all packaged up with personalized controls and a controller synced to be used - it might even save time for someone to do this instead of setting up their controller configuration & name tag.
If time constraints is your reason for restricting/banning a character than you don't have any reason to do so. How many players in your tournaments even use Mii fighters besides yourself? I'm going to guess nearly none - making the time constraints argument a little silly.

Yes, where I live the only person who uses Mii Fighters in general as a main is me - but every now and then someone tries to use them in tournament as a second.

Thing is, while ultimately the ruleset for my tournaments are 100% my decision, we do have a sort of "Smash Backroom" in Panama consisting of 2 regular TOs and 5 top players, where we've voted on a generalized ruleset for Smash Wii U tournaments - which is the one I usually use unless I'm trying something new (mostly with stages). I try to keep the Miis the way we've voted on them for just because I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to do things for my benefit since I'm pretty much the only one who mains Miis - plus I already usually top 5 so I don't want people to think it's the ruleset that makes me top.

 

[T0MMY]

Yes, where I live the only person who uses Mii Fighters in general as a main is me - but every now and then someone tries to use them in tournament as a second.

So, admittedly, there is absolutely no reason to think the tournament is going to have some kind of "severe" issue with running smoothly.
And perhaps if you lift the restrictions maybe you'd actually have someone else playing with the Mii fighters besides yourself.

Thing is, while ultimately the ruleset for my tournaments are 100% my decision, we do have a sort of "Smash Backroom" in Panama consisting of 2 regular TOs and 5 top players, where we've voted on a generalized ruleset for Smash Wii U tournaments

What you are telling me here is that there are a select few dictating to the attendees what they can and cannot do in the game not by a foundation of reasoning, but by arbitrary authoritative overreach. This is an oligarchy, and an iron-fisted draconian one from the sounds of it.
If I went to one of your tournaments and you told me not to play my character at its potential without any sound reason I'd say that I'd think David Sirlin would agree that you're a scrub.

David Sirlin defining a "scrub" *:

A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about.

What you are doing with the mii fighters: Placing limits on the height/weight and mandating only guest Mii can be used for a reason that I have shown to be ostensibly false (severe time constraints).
Does the game know anything about these iron-fisted oligarchic anti-competitive rulings? No.

Obviously the above corresponds with being a scrub.
Now, what does this have to do with with competitive tournaments (supposedly the kind you organize)?
Video game competition is a "playing to win" event: The victor is awarded spoils based on merit of skill with the software being used and bans/restrictions are not employed unless necessary for competition.

I try to keep the Miis the way we've voted on them for just because I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to do things for my benefit since I'm pretty much the only one who mains Miis - plus I already usually top 5 so I don't want people to think it's the ruleset that makes me top.

You do realize that enforcing out-of-game rulings on the Mii could be seen as you attempting to strangle competition so that others do not pick up the character and you are the only one to dominate with the character. Of course I am not saying this is the case, but I am showing you how that kind of thinking is self-defeating (and more needless worry). It is actually worse to make out-of-game rulings additionally because there is NO foundation for the ruling - at least by NOT making a ruling you don't need to defend your position on why you are not making a ruling: Playing the Game to its potential without any knee-jerk reaction to ban things like a scrub is exactly what we should be doing.
If the other oligarchs say you are wrong for manifesting a competitive spirit then they can enjoy their monopoly of scrubby events and you can enjoy a much more successful competitive tournament.
Your choice what to do here.

 

[wizrad]

Wizrad, you made a comment earlier about wanting to use small Mii because that's what you practice with. If that's your argument, then just start practicing default size Mii instead. It's not that hard. Every time a character gets a hard nerf, players flock to a different character to practice (like ZeRo going from Diddy to Sheik) You need to adapt, and I don't feel there is any way people can convince TO's to allow custom size/weight Miis knowing how much that effects the tourney speed. Take what you can get, fight for Guest Miis with customs movesets, and be happy to have that. The game is balanced enough that you can still do well without being "optimal" size.

The community nerfing a character is not at all the same thing as SSB4's balancing team doing so. You have to abide by the buffs/nerfs handed out by Nintendo, but you don't have to follow the community's rules, because they are malleable. Would you say that slaves just should've "adapted" to being slaves and stayed that way? Because that's not an adequate argument to me. Say the community bans Falco's throws or Mega Man's lemons. Would you just adapt or would you do something about it? If you did something, would it be for yourself or because you're tired of seeing people give up on or never even try your mains because of the arbitrary and dumb handcuffs the community has them in? There's just no reason to ban Mii sizes, as T0MMY and I have already said, importing a Mii from a 3DS takes equal or less time than creating and setting up a new fighter.

And the only reason anyone even considers these restrictions as not being ludicrous and unfair is because Mii Fighters are different from other fighters. They're "lame" or "not real characters". The reason I so often bring up other characters is that it seems so stupid to ban Sheik's fair or Luigi's D-throw, but nobody has any qualms about banning Helicopter Kick, sizes, or Miis altogether. It's discriminatory.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Well, equating the Mii situation to slavery is perhaps an extreme comparison... but I can appreciate the frustration that is spawning it. 'Handcuffs on your character', as you say.

As far as Miis not being real characters goes, this is looking more and more ridiculous by the day.

You can make Miis that are pretty convincing mock-ups of existing video game characters. There are people running around with Layton Swordfighters, Kenshiro Brawlers (okay, so he's more of an anime and manga character before a game one, whatever), Wesker and Proto Man Gunners, and so on. If we really want to go this route, a rule of "Mii must demonstrably resemble a character from a professionally published source" would be pretty easy to work within.

Or we can accept the idea that the Mii Fighters are getting their own Amiibo as proof they are 'real characters.' $13 merch, same as how you can get a Mario toy for $13.

Anyone seriously arguing 'not real characters' needs to stop being ridiculous.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Miis = Slave is sort of an extreme. I've personally equated them to handicapped individuals; however severe either discussion may be.

You got a group of characters, however small, who cannot compete on their own. They need crutches and aid to function on an equal level, but it's up to a societal change to allow it.

But alas, some of these handicapped characters become better than regular characters when given these crutches. And because we'd rather not indulge them in superiority, we'd rather avoid sharing equality either.

Besides; why should we waste time and resources on them? They're the minority.


...Which was I talking about, again? ;

 

[wizrad]

I wasn't comparing Miis to slaves, I was trying to point out that saying, "this is the way things are and because this is the way things are, this is the way things have to be, there will be no change, learn to adapt" is totally ridiculous. Progress brings change and there's no real way of supporting the argument that things should stay the way they are because that's how they are now.

Riddle me this: if Palutena were allowed all of her custom moves with the customs switch off, would there have been this much resistance to her being allowed her moves? Would she be restricted to 1111? Would she be outright banned? No, because that wouldn't be fair to Palutena players. But us Mii players are looked down upon as casuals who don't get the competitive game because Miis are dumb and childish, so they can't be considered 'real', established characters like Wii Fit Trainer or Villager.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Most people against Mii's are only against them, because they can alter their size and moves. I can see a bit how unfair that can be.

Best solution is to have miis use guest size default mii with a brand new set.

Ex) Gunner is now stuck with 1312 set and can't change her moves anymore. This is gunners new set. So people can get use to it, and gunner mains become happy now.

 

[wizrad]

But why can't that same logic be applied to sizes?

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

But why can't that same logic be applied to sizes?

Because the default guest Mii is on everyone's Wii U by default. Also, many people hate tiny Miis for how nimble they are and how great they are at getting kills.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Off topic: Why is it everyone seems enthralled to discuss how much they or others hate something? Why is this the driving factor for discussion?

Can anyone gleefully say the statement, "I like it when Miis are limited in an arbitrary way"?

 

[wizrad]

They may be on the console by default, but the default controllers for Smash Wii U are the GamePad (banned), Classic Pro (usually banned), and the new Pro (still sometimes banned). And yet, most of us use GameCube controllers. In fact, many tournaments ban everything other than GCN controllers. In addition, just because something is on the Wii U by default doesn't mean we have to use it. The Mii Maker is on the Wii U. And yet, a main argument against Mii sizes is that it involves opening the Mii Maker. The size restriction is arbitrary and there is no logical reasoning for it.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Most huge tounememt organisers will say no to size modification and custom move changes. They will most likely be more okay with Miis be fault guest size, with a new set perm set( Gunner being 1312, rather then 1111).

 

[wizrad]

They do, but there's no real reasoning for it.