ZeRo's current position on Mii rulings

[T0MMY]

When Paragon decided to announce a Mii 1111 limitation the community got in a blaze of controversy.
The #1 player, ZeRo, chimed in and had this to say:

Really hope Miis are limited to standard, 1111 at paragon...

*

I asked for his reasoning for this ruling he hoped for.
His response:

Why? Customs should not be allowed period for anyone, don't cherry pick it. Also, letting them chose sizes is ridiculous (unbalanced)

I just think small mii brawler is ridiculous.

With all due respect to a very skilled player who seems like a very nice guy (I shook his hand and congratulated him after his performance at Evo 2015):

Competitively speaking the game is to be played as is with any changes only coming after proper due process. There has to be a warrant for a change, there must be clear and evidenced issue to even give rise to a formal discussion on a change in rules. Once it is established that something is to be discussed any assertion to change must have sound reasoning. The sound reasoning must meet specific criteria (as we can find a good list of criteria described in David Sirlin's "Playing to Win").

"Custom Fighter" Argument
To say that Mii Fighters are Custom Fighters is flat-out unfounded. The game does not describe them that way and I am wondering exactly how he came to conclude they are Custom Fighters when the Custom Fighters setting is turned OFF they are still able to be fully used (except Equipment is unusable).
The newest update (1.1.0) has explicitly set them apart in a new mode allowing Mii Fighters to be toggled ON/OFF separately from Custom Fighters. We no longer have to speculate if maybe there was some kind of odd glitch that allowed Mii fighters to be allowed with Customs Off - it is clearly evidential they are NOT Custom Fighters.
Zero's conclusion that they should be limited because they are custom fighters is clearly invalid.

Argument from "Ridiculous"
The next reason he gives is that Mii Brawler is "ridiculous".
Now, I am not entirely sure what the connotation of "ridiculous" means as it could have many interpretations, but in a competitive scene where ZeRo and myself are coming from the wording seems to imply what many would interpret as "Over Powered" or the commonly used excuse for bans/restrictions: "OP, plz ban".
I am in no position to deny ZeRo his opinion of how good or bad characters are (opinions are really not meant to be argued). But I will put it in context that he mainly played Diddy Kong and wrecked people with the "ridiculous" Hoo-Haa (which has been nerfed twice over) and switched over to Sheik with her "ridiculous" F-air strings (which has been nerfed in the most recent patch) and before SSB4 was playing Brawl Meta Knight who... well, I don't think I need to go into any further detail about Brawl Meta Knight's "ridiculous" nature.

Point is, it is rather hypocritical for someone to seems all too willing to exploit the potential of characters' ridiculous abilities and then turn around and say that another character should be restricted because he says they are ridiculous.

Conclusion
Ok, ZeRo, that's my thoughts on your responses, I hope I wasn't too harsh, but I pulled no (one inch) punches because I love my character and love playing Smash in the competitive scene - a scene that is built on principles that advocate the game and its characters be fully exploited to the most potential and that any bans/limits must have due process!

There is no warrant for Mii fighters ban/restrictions and no sound argument.
I have been shut out of many tournaments due to these restrictions on my character and you can help me and many others out a lot by simply saying we can come to a tournament and play just like any other Smasher is fully allowed to do. Guilty until proven innocent, Mii fighters are unfairly being oppressed and it's high time we take our rightful place as fighters and fight this injustice - help us out ZeRo!

 

[L9999]

People should really stop going by the ZeRo bandwagon and taking is word as the Gospel. What if he is the best? He doesn't know everything and people should be able to formulate their own opinions regardless of what the top players say or not. Sure, their opinion is important, but it's not the law. And Mii Brawler isn't that great as most people paint him. He has exploitable weaknesses and if someone loses against one, so sorry, that someone doesn't know the matchup to an uncommon character. Same deal to those who lose to good low tier/underrated character players.

 

[wizrad]

In other words, he's been scared of Brawler ever since Puffster almost beat him in that online tournament, pulled an M2K, and started crying "OP, OP!"

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

I do hope they can use their customs. Japan allows it. Why not America?

 

[AEMehr]

So what he basically says is, "I think Small Brawler is absurd so all three must suffer because of that".

How can you say that when Meta Knight was a thing in Brawl and left untouched for so long. Like I can get specials for some people since it's universal, despite the fact that I would love to use specials on all three Mii Fighters, but the height / weight thing is a character specific thing. This is basically just saying "this shouldn't be a thing because I don't want to deal with small fighters / brawler". A good player won't fall for Brawler's shenanigans, and if you're forcing the whole 1111 thing why are you so concerned about what tiny Brawler can do then??

 

[wizrad]

Japan allows it.

Really? Can I get a source there? Japan is usually extremely closed-minded in their rulesets. FD only, locked into the same character the entire tournament, no customs…

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Really? Can I get a source there? Japan is usually extremely closed-minded in their rulesets. FD only, locked into the same character the entire tournament, no customs…

I've seen some streams that allow Mii's with customs. It was default smash, but they allowed Mii brawler with helicopter kick. JohnNumbers has more info on this subject.

 

[Teshie U]

Just because its not broken doesn't really mean people need to allow it in standard competitive play.

Miis being allowed with customs set to off isn't really a valid claim. Its just poor menu design because of how miis are created.

Allowing all these different weights and hurtbox sized and range variables makes it nearly impossible for people to practice against the characters and know proper spacing, combos, setups and KO percents in these matchups.

If miis can alter their weight because its "not broken" why don't we just allow equipment for other characters as well? Lots of characters would benefit greatly trading off weight for speed/combos.

Personally as dumb as helicopter kick is, I'm willing to accept Luigi is dumber and having 2 braindead grab spamming high/mid tiers won't kill the metagame, but the ridiculous about of variations possible with height and weight changes makes the character more complicated the pokemon. There is no fair way to accommodate it.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

but the ridiculous about of variations possible with height and weight changes makes the character more complicated the pokemon. There is no fair way to accommodate it.

Let me make it a lot more simple for you.

We can rule out about 49% of the height combinations because pretty much everyone runs 50% height or less. Anything beyond that costs the Mii so much in mobility and attack ending lag that it's generally not worth doing.

Weight will be either 0% or 50%. Most smart Mii players want it to be 0, but train for 50 anyway based on current rules.

And from there, the physics differences border on trivial. If you can't learn the proper follow-up spots for about three different sizes (0/0, 25/0, 50/Rejected), then I truly feel bad for you because it is NOT that complicated.

 

[wizrad]

Just because its not broken doesn't really mean people need to allow it in standard competitive play.

Miis being allowed with customs set to off isn't really a valid claim. Its just poor menu design because of how miis are created.

Allowing all these different weights and hurtbox sized and range variables makes it nearly impossible for people to practice against the characters and know proper spacing, combos, setups and KO percents in these matchups.

If miis can alter their weight because its "not broken" why don't we just allow equipment for other characters as well? Lots of characters would benefit greatly trading off weight for speed/combos.

Personally as dumb as helicopter kick is, I'm willing to accept Luigi is dumber and having 2 braindead grab spamming high/mid tiers won't kill the metagame, but the ridiculous about of variations possible with height and weight changes makes the character more complicated the pokemon. There is no fair way to accommodate it.

I think we'd all agree with you that every single variation of size, weight, and customs shouldn't have to be allowed. That's not the point. The point is that all the Miis are heavily nerfed by being limited to this arbitrary "medium 1111" nonsense needlessly. If a tiny 2122 Brawler was the only Brawler allowed, no one would have a problem with it. The same goes for the Gunner and Swordfighter. It's not that we need all of the sizes and customs, just one optimal set for each fighter.

 

[Teshie U]

So the people that want to use a sub-optimal mii size don't matter? If I want to run a big, slow mii with no combos or safety, I'm not supported here?

Aside from that philosophical point, its going to be years before we TRULY know whats optimal for miis (or any character's custom loadouts). Allowing only a superlative size would be a slap in the face to the people experimenting with the thousands of other combinations with the character. And the only way you can be fair to all Mii players is by allowing people to use the mii maker or 3ds uploading for their personal character. Once you've gone that far, there is no reason not to allow customs for all characters as they are presenting the same problem anyway.

Thats if you are all about fairness here. If you are selfishly wanting the rules bent so your character can be viable, why not allow Samus, Palutena or Bowser customs?


Menu design is really the only thing Miis have going for them on this front and it only really supports the use of all their specials, not their sizes.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Afaik, size affects some single move frames per notch and movement speed by the nth of a decimal place. A 50/50 Mii's bair might come out on frame 11, while a 50/49 Mii's bair might come out on frame 10. However, a 50/20 Mii's bair might also come out on frame 10, while only a 50/19 comes out on frame 9.

But the bottom line is, even as an advocater and player of Miis, I don't know these things. I know 0/0 is fast. I know 50/50 is slow. I know 100/100 is ganondorf without the perks. The transitions between these, I don't, nor do I think anyone has really put it notch-by-notch to paper.

As for competitive effect or threat, however, I'm not seeing it. 0/0, while incredibly zippy, has terrible hitbox range. 50/50, while slow, has much stronger range. The difference in hurtboxes between the two, while probably not insignificant, isn't threatening.

But if 0/0 is as big a problem as let on, then you disallow a certain threshold on size. It's a large demand, if enforced, but if 25/25 were the smallest allowed, I'm sure we'll manage.

Competitive differences, however, are restricted to reach and mobility. Many Mii players will tell you that larger Miis are wholly insignificant, because they do such little additional damage in exchange for their terrible frame data, and do not launch anyone further, nor do they launch any nearer when hit.

Bottom line either way to remember, is that Miis are the 'create a character' option, and were marketed as such. So of course it's going to be selfish -- my Miis are MY Miis. They're supposed to be mine. The name itself, is "Mii". I'm not playing a 'swordfighter' 'gunner' or 'brawler', I'm playing as me. That's kind of the point.

Selfish? Yes. That's the gimmick, by name. A bannable offense? How dare I create my own character with the character creator.


If you want to ban selfishness, then ban Miis. The moment you limit them to 1111, they're no longer Miis, they're Yuus.

 

[GS3K]

At this point, either allow miis to be used as designed or just ban them altogether instead of trying to push a "standardized" version not many people want to use.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

In other words, he's been scared of Brawler ever since Puffster almost beat him in that online tournament, pulled an M2K, and started crying "OP, OP!"

That's pretty much how he reacts to every character he almost loses to

 

[L9999]

That's pretty much how he reacts to every character he almost loses to

If you mention Ness anywhere in his vicinity he will go crazy.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If you mention Ness anywhere in his vicinity he will go crazy.

I must try it just becauseyou said it. The only time I'll find Ness useful is to tick off ZeRo. Perfect

 

[GeneralLedge]

Every time you get him off-stage, just taunt "OKEY" over and over until he gets back.

(afaik Ness doesn't have a very strong off-stage game anyway. But I wouldn't know)

 

[wizrad]

So the people that want to use a sub-optimal mii size don't matter? If I want to run a big, slow mii with no combos or safety, I'm not supported here?

Aside from that philosophical point, its going to be years before we TRULY know whats optimal for miis (or any character's custom loadouts). Allowing only a superlative size would be a slap in the face to the people experimenting with the thousands of other combinations with the character. And the only way you can be fair to all Mii players is by allowing people to use the mii maker or 3ds uploading for their personal character. Once you've gone that far, there is no reason not to allow customs for all characters as they are presenting the same problem anyway.

Thats if you are all about fairness here. If you are selfishly wanting the rules bent so your character can be viable, why not allow Samus, Palutena or Bowser customs?


Menu design is really the only thing Miis have going for them on this front and it only really supports the use of all their specials, not their sizes.

I mean, if you wanna allow everyone their customs, I'd be willing to make that compromise (: ideally, everyone should be allowed to import a mii, but people are heavily against Miis (customs or not) because of their lack of standardization. As for knowing what's optimal, we would go by what we understand now. Would it seem logical to never ban Brawl MK because "we don't know what the meta will look like in a few years" and "maybe he won't be the best anymore"? Personally, I'm the kind of guy who wants as few bans as possible, but saying we don't know now could be just as wrong as saying we do know now. So, if the meta changes, then we change the standard Mii.

Also, please don't call me selfish for standing up for something I love. The Miis are great characters that are going to waste because of people's prejudices against them. More characters means a deeper game, and I don't see how trying to make everything more interesting for everyone (yes, including me) is selfish. I also don't see how completely excluding three separate characters' playerbases because "I don't wanna deal with it" is not selfish.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Every time you get him off-stage, just taunt "OKEY" over and over until he gets back.
(afaik Ness doesn't have a very strong off-stage game anyway. But I wouldn't know)

Or just back throw and pk fire all the time until he rage quits, then spam the okay taunt to rub salt(or dirt) in the wound.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I mean, if you wanna allow everyone their customs, I'd be willing to make that compromise (: ideally, everyone should be allowed to import a mii, but people are heavily against Miis (customs or not) because of their lack of standardization. As for knowing what's optimal, we would go by what we understand now. Would it seem logical to never ban Brawl MK because "we don't know what the meta will look like in a few years" and "maybe he won't be the best anymore"? Personally, I'm the kind of guy who wants as few bans as possible, but saying we don't know now could be just as wrong as saying we do know now. So, if the meta changes, then we change the standard Mii.

Also, please don't call me selfish for standing up for something I love. The Miis are great characters that are going to waste because of people's prejudices against them. More characters means a deeper game, and I don't see how trying to make everything more interesting for everyone (yes, including me) is selfish. I also don't see how completely excluding three separate characters' playerbases because "I don't wanna deal with it" is not selfish.

Everything you said about a deeper game probably makes ZeRo sick to his stomach. He almost lost to Pit/Dark Pit, a Lucario, and is always wanting other characters to be nerfed.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Or just back throw and pk fire all the time until he rage quits, then spam the okay taunt to rub salt(or dirt) in the wound.

If that actually worked I'd question ZeRo's authenticity more than anything.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If that actually worked I'd question ZeRo's authenticity more than anything.

We all would.

 

[wizrad]

Everything you said about a deeper game probably makes ZeRo sick to his stomach. He almost lost to Pit/Dark Pit, a Lucario, and is always wanting other characters to be nerfed.

I guess that's what happens when you play Brawl competitively and main Meta Knight…

edit: kappa

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I guess that's what happens when you play Brawl competitively and main Meta Knight…

edit: kappa

And main Pit in Project M before he was nerfed...

 

[wizrad]

And main Pit in Project M before he was nerfed...

And Fox (albeit not a very good Fox) in Melee…

 

[TMNTSSB4]

And Fox (albeit not a very good Fox) in Melee…

That to. I don't get how people can say he doesn't only play the best characters in every game

 

[L9999]

That to. I don't get how people can say he doesn't only play the best characters in every game

Nyeh, Diddy is broken. Plays Diddy and abuse Hoo-Hah. Nyeh, Diddy got nerfed. Uses Sheik and spams needles. Hates on Rosalina and Ness even if they lose against his characters.

 

[GeneralLedge]

If it hinders his ability to make a living off it, he'll complain about whatever.

And that's something you have to recognize too: ZeRo makes his living off of winning tournaments. Of course he'll be anti-anything. He'll be anti-customs. He'll be anti-Miis. If it's a risk that he will make less money (or no money), it's something he would advocate against in an instant. Because it's a business decision to him. He sustains himself in the current meta.

And I can't say I don't understand it; I'd be against changes to my financial stability too. But if all Smash 4 is is a business transaction, then I'm clearly here for the wrong reasons.

 

[Ian Viola]

He's just mad because my team took his to game 5 in Grand Finals

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Nyeh, Diddy is broken. Plays Diddy and abuse Hoo-Hah. Nyeh, Diddy got nerfed. Uses Sheik and spams needles. Hates on Rosalina and Ness even if they lose against his characters.

Then he smack talks about how Sakurai nerfs the best character everytime he plays them, after saying they're to op. Atleast M2K can admit he's a tier wh**e, and he atleast tries other characters to see if they fit his playstyle.

 

[T0MMY]

Just because its not broken doesn't really mean people need to allow it in standard competitive play.

Completely inconsistent with Competitive Practice.

• We do not "allow" things to be in the game - All game elements are expected to be included without permission to be "allowed" to exist; additionally every competitive element is to be exploited to their fullest potential.
• Bans only happen when warranted and only after due process concluding with sound reason.

So, yes, let me step away from the strict rulings as I described above (sorry 'bout that) and assume you mean to say that just because something is not broken it does not offer immunity from its use being ruled against.
An example of this is Meta Knight in Brawl, or Akuma in Super Turbo. Meta Knight had the potential to break the game but was banned due to a completely disrupting the metagame and balance of competition to the point where it was better for competition to ban the character and not have to worry about any possible future brokeness that would eventually get him banned anyway. Similar to rulings against use of Akuma in tournaments.

Miis being allowed with customs set to off isn't really a valid claim. Its just poor menu design because of how miis are created.

This argument was originally disregarded due to it being speculation (there's no compelling evidence that it was simply poor menu design).
And now the argument is completely dead because the menu not only was never patched to fix this but aditional modes also offer Mii Fighter option separate from Custom Fighters option. Showing definitively that there is a distinct difference between "customs" and "Mii".

Allowing all these different weights and hurtbox sized and range variables makes it nearly impossible for people to practice against the characters and know proper spacing, combos, setups and KO percents in these matchups.

Adapt, git gud, and no johnz.
Expecting the TOs to make rulings against characters so you can have a better chance at winning against them is embarrassing to the competitive scene and frankly I find that to be rather despicable. What's next, going to knock the controller out of my hands?

If miis can alter their weight because its "not broken" why don't we just allow equipment for other characters as well? Lots of characters would benefit greatly trading off weight for speed/combos.

Height/weight is to Equipment as...
Comparing Apples to Oranges.

I hope you get that analogy as it is fairly common where I live, the internetz) and means to say that has no bearing on the matter.

Personally as dumb as helicopter kick is, I'm willing to accept Luigi is dumber and having 2 braindead grab spamming high/mid tiers won't kill the metagame, but the ridiculous about of variations possible with height and weight changes makes the character more complicated the pokemon. There is no fair way to accommodate it.

Ban Mii fighters, because the Pokemon.
Got me there.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

'More complicated than Pokemon'? Keep your jokes plausible. Modest adjustments to a character's physics do not radically redefine them to the point where you'd need some kind of 'Pokedex' level memorization to keep them straight.

If you can't keep track of 'tiny means faster, jumps higher, less reach, has less end-lag on attacks', versus 'big means slower, jumps lower, has more reach, has more end-lag on attacks' then you have serious problems. Anyone seriously advancing this as an argument is insulting their own intelligence, or that of their fellow players.

EDIT: Honestly, at this point the objections to open Mii design are becoming pathetic. If this is the best some people can mount in the face of growing, bordering on overwhelming support for free Mii usage (or Mii usage subject to some logistical concerns), then you might be better served spending less time embarrassing yourself with this sort of 'reasoning' and more time practicing the matchup, stopping by the Mii boards to study their character data, and so on.

 

[Teshie U]

I was talking about how a single pokemon can have different stats , priorities and weaknesses based on what its trained for.

When you run into Charizard, maybe its got high defense, maybe its got high offense or speed or whatever.

I wasn't remotely trying to suggest Miis are like having 700 different character + variable stats.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

And with a Mii Fighter you can tell at a glance what those stats are. "Short? Ok, less reach, more speed, more jump, more combos. Tall? Ok, more reach, less speed, less jump, less combos."

Super easy. If you can take the 5 minutes necessary to learn the general range of Mii heights, you're good to go.

 

[GeneralLedge]

Short is offensive play, tall is defensive play.

Anything in-between is personalized tuning.


(If it were up to me on a developer standpoint, I'd have made smaller Miis lighter than they are, and taller Miis heavier than they are, so that 0/0 brawler was super light and easy to kill and 100/100 anything was hard to kill and actually viable at all)

 

[wizrad]

Actually, I think we should talk about Pokémon for a second. It is, after all, another competitive gaming community from which to seek precedents.

• You get six slots in which you can put any of the 719 Pokémon, already allowing for 4314 possible team combinations
• Each Pokémon has six stats, each with its own IVs and EVs. There are 192 possible IV combinations for each Pokémon, and a countless number of possibilities for EVs, with 510 total points able to be distributed across six stats with a limit of 252 on each stat.
• Each Pokémon has one item slot in which it can hold almost any item. Here's a list of all the items in the current game (spoiler alert: there are a lot of items): http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_items_by_index_number_(Generation_VI)
• Each Pokémon has one of a possible three abilities.
• Each Pokémon has one of 25 possible natures.
• Each Pokémon has four slots in which it can have any of its possible moves, with 621 moves available in-game, allowing for about 2479 possible movesets on any given Pokémon.
• There are also the variables introduced by doubles and triples, as any Pokémon can occupy one of any two or three areas on the field, changing its area of attack and vulnerability.

So, adding that all (excluding items and EVs) up, every competitive Pokémon player has to prepare for somewhere around 153999446400 different possible teams, without any knowledge as to the opponent's strategy. And I forgot to include alternate forms and status effects in that math. I'm not going back through all that to change it.

Do you think there are more than 153999446400 different Mii possibilities? I don't even know how to say that number. Arguing that there are "too many" Miis is lazy and makes the Smash scene look bad in comparison to Pokémon. Anyways, I wholeheartedly believe in the ability of the average competitive Smasher to understand the different moves and sizes of Miis in relation to their matchups.

 

[Teshie U]

The menus aren't terribly designed in general (and who patches menus anyway right?). Its not not ideal for our community's needs. 99% of the people playing the game are fine with it and there is no need to completely redesign it. Just pointing out that Miis are basically in the same boat as Palutena.

Telling someone they can know the "general" range or speed or weight of a character is fine for most people, but its definitely unfair to be able to change the weight of your character vs people that practice their combos.

Have you ever seen the really really hardcore players practice setups and combos on characters? Slight differences is weight, hitbox size and frame data definitely matter ALOT (which is exactly why Mii players want them all legal). Changing Mii stats isn't much different from what basic equipment does. You can slap on some equipment and get more/less weight, speed, priority and in small doses its also not broken. Good luck getting a tournament to allow it though.

Smash isn't pokemon, people playing an execution based game (not a turn based strategy game), apparently aren't looking for massive variation in stats. I understand that customization is the gimmick that makes Miis cool, but I'm just telling you why its not going to happen as a standard for this community. Instead of arguing for something you KNOW won't happen at large scale event (legalization of thousand of mii sizes), you'd be better off trying to convince people Miis should have all their specials legal. There is no logistics concern there.

What exactly is your solution to this problem? Some of you just want the "optimal sizes" for each Mii, but why aren't other characters given optimal loadouts for their characters? AA's custom move project was exactly that.

If you support all mii players getting precisely the size they want, then you obviously want mii maker used or 3ds importing, so why not allow all customs in that case?

I'm just wondering why you selfishly only want the rules to fit your needs.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Smash isn't pokemon, people playing an execution based game (not a turn based strategy game), apparently aren't looking for massive variation in stats.

(Emphasis mine)

'Massive variation', what? It doesn't change up combos much. The differences in Weight (the in-game stat, not the Mii Maker attribute which might otherwise be called Width or 'bulk' or so on) don't really affect the character's survival percentages in any meaningful way.

I'm just wondering why you selfishly only want the rules to fit your needs.

I'm just wondering why you selfishly inflate how much the Mii's size affects how others combo them. Because the difference is trivial and within the capacity of a 'pro player' who 'practices combos in-depth' to memorize the absolutely minute changes to combo behavior.

I'm just wondering why you selfishly keep implying people cannot deal with such minor differences, ones the game gives them visual cues for. This smacks of insulting your peers' intelligence.

 

[wizrad]

Alright, after clarifying this with the Smash wiki (not the most reliable but reliable enough for things like this), I now can confidently say that there are only three different weights for Miis, light, medium, and heavy. Like Mario Kart. And, trivializing your combo argument even more, the difference in weight between the medium and heavy Miis is a measly one unit. That's effectively two different Mii weights. So the only thing that someone studying Miis would have to actually worry about is range, which is visually indicated and not hard at all to figure out, other than in the case of Swordfighters, as the length of their sword changes depending on length, but their actual range stays the same.

Please explain to me how I'm being selfish for wanting compromise. Yes, I'm limiting the Mii community of which I am a part, but that community is miniscule in comparison to the rest of the Smash community, so minuscule in fact that it is almost insignificant in most affairs. As such, the Mii community will have to give in somewhat to the majority so as to not cause problems.

Also, you arguing that there is too much variation in Miis and then suggesting that my idea of limiting the variations is selfish seems pretty hypocritical and almost trollish to me (although the quality of your posts proves that you are most definitely not a troll). Miis were limited in moveset and size at Evo anyways, right? Or was that just for non-imported characters?

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Alright, after clarifying this with the Smash wiki (not the most reliable but reliable enough for things like this), I now can confidently say that there are only three different weights for Miis, light, medium, and heavy.

I'm sorry, but this post has many errors. You can influence Swordfighter's reach as well by changing their height.

I'm also not entirely sure there are just three values. My experiments with five different heights yielded five different amounts of sword reach. As in, I could measure where I was hitting from differently, using the squares on the stage of Green Hill Zone to help me gauge the distance.

If we are going to argue for Mii freedom, let us at least do so with accurate information.