Zero Suit Samus vs. Falco

[FadedImage]

The Match-up is currently being discussed in the following thread:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203418

If you feel you have important information to add please contribute.

Thanks in advance!

 

[GMo]

I was playing against a ZSS (good one too, shoutout FK if you ever see this) this weekend. He beat me, unfortunately, but I think it was primarily due to me not knowing the matchup very well (and a suicide). Nonetheless, the guy was good.

Main thing that was hurting me was that I couldn't get the chaingrab. He consistently used ZSS's downb to escape it. I know ZSS can be chained (so I'm told, at least), but I couldn't make it happen. I ended up just doing a d throw to DLX for around 30 dmg. It isn't bad, but I'd much prefer to get 5 throws in.

Is the timing just different for ZSS? Do you have to walk? I was just dashing.

Anyway, from my limited experience:

ZSS has a great startup projectile that has a lot of knockback and does a good amount of dmg. I watched my friend's Marth get wrecked first stock every time because of this, and he couldn't comeback from it*. Luckily Falco has a reflector, which you'll probably use more than usual during the first stock. Also, in general you'll be using your reflector here more.

ZSS has very limited approach options here and you should flourish anytime she has to approach. SHL/SHDL across the stage makes it rough to do much but crawl at you and you can either IAP or reflector her. Her dash attack is usually predictable and you can usually make her eat a reflector.

Best thing about this fight for Falco is that he can effectively force ZS to fight him up close. Falco isn't the best up close fighter, but he is significantly better than ZS. And most of her stuff can be shieldgrabbed to start the chain.

Falco can't spike very well at all. I landed a strong spike at high percents TWICE and she managed to recover using the tether recovery. It is easy to spike their down-b if they use it close to you.

One strength ZSS has against Falco is Falco's glaring weakness: recovery.

Phantasm is typically the best option, we all know Firebird's weaknesses. Phantasm is predictable and can be hit through her Bair. So be careful. Trick her into trying to ledgehog you and go back on stage or vice versa. Also, watch out for an off the stage sideb, the range is ridic and it really strengthens her aerials.

Also I like to phantasm a lot in this matchup to reset spacing and force her to approach.

And her sideb does outrange your reflector (unless I'm mistaken), but only by a very small amount.

Anywho that is all I got for this. Someone more knowledgeable should chime in. I don't know enough to assign the match an arbitrary number, but I think Falco has an advantage,


*He now knows to just counter and throw them off stage, but he didn't then.


ALSO: Can someone confirm/deny ZSS's downb getting out of chaingrabs?

 

[ph00tbag]

Snakeee asserts that Flip Jump makes a Falco chain grab impossible. The problem is that ZSS recovers before the grabbox comes out, and so she can Flip Jump with invincibility frames. That's my understanding. It's the same issue with Marth's upB, just less dangerous for you.

 

[GMo]

Sounds about right, the good part with Marth is you can bait an upb and then punish.

If that is confirmed it would just be best to dthrow to dlx. I ended up doing that - worked well. Leads to a good amount of dmg.

 

[ph00tbag]

Sounds about right, the good part with Marth is you can bait an upb and then punish.

If that is confirmed it would just be best to dthrow to dlx. I ended up doing that - worked well. Leads to a good amount of dmg.

You might also be able to do the bait and punish bit with ZSS, too. But you have to guess whether she'll kick or not.

 

[8AngeL8]

This discussion should be done in the topic on the ZSS board.

 

[FadedImage]

It has been concluded by ZSS mains that the ZSS vs. Falco matchup is at a 3:7 ratio

If you would like to challenge or confirm this conclusion, please post in the above thread.

 

[FadedImage]

The following has been concluded for the Falco vs. ZSS matchup, if you disagree, reply here

Falco

Pros:

• Can gimp Falco's recovery.
• Can partially D-Smash Chain Falco (<44% w/ DI, <87% w/o DI)

Cons:

• Falco's stage control will make it difficult for you to approach.
• Falco can gimp ZSS's recovery.
• Falco can chaingrab ZSS at low percents (< ~30%)
• Falco's reflector will minimize the advantage of suitpieces.

Final Verdict: 3:7​

Matchup Advice:

• Game Plan:
  Try your best to get Falco off the stage and force him into repeated edgeguard or gimp attempts.
  
  
• Suitpiece Strategy:
  Falco's reflector is probably the most difficult reflector to deal with. It reflects for the entire duration of the move, both out and back in, and its hitbox's range is just barely under that of our Side-B range. This means that ZSS's primary alternate attack while holding a suitpiece is very difficult to properly space. In order to still maximize the suitpiece advantage, mix-up your suitpiece game with Falco's reflector in mind. When glide-tossing at a Falco, throw up or down instead of forward; many Falco players will reflect on instinct, so dodge the incoming hitbox. Then, punish accordingly with a D-Smash, grab, or other attack.
  
  
• Long Range:
  At a long distance, Falco will cover most of the stage with constant lasers. In order to approach a Falco at long range, you will have to crawl towards him or jump over them. Both of these methods have flaws. When crawling towards a Falco, you are limited to D-Tilts and shield. When jumping, you have no downward facing hitbox to challenge Falco's approach.
  
  
• Medium Range:
  At this range, you'll probably be crawling, in the air, or in your shield. When in the air, be careful what you come down with. If you come down with a Side-B, watch for the lasers that may interrupt you. If you come in with an aerial, it's likely you'll get shield grabbed (which at low percents can be deadly). When you are crawling at this range, watch for two things, boostsmashes and reflectors. Both of these options can be shieldgrabbed. If Falco goes to the air while you are crawling, you should expect a D-Air. You should be able to U-Tilt or Jab out of shield. If you are shielding Falco's lasers, watch out for boostsmashes and dashgrabs. Both of these options can be spotdodge/rolled, but it may be difficult to time properly. If you manage it, punish with a U-Tilt or Jab.
  
  
• Close Range:
  It's rather difficult to get close to Falco without having had a confrontation already, but just like most matchups, Falco can shield pressure better than you can respond. Stick to high-speed, low-lag attacks: Jab and D-Tilt. The biggest problem with this matchup is that retreating out of close range isn't your best option. You will have to handle Falco's shield pressure with ZSS's normal handicaps, out-of-shield U-Tilt, Jabs, etc.
  
  
• In the air:
  As usual, ZSS's lack of downward facing hitboxes is a problem, however, Falco doesn't have an amazing U-Air, which minimizes the weakness. Falco's D-Air can be out-prioritized by ZSS's U-Air, but it's a tricky timing and must be well spaced or you will trade hits. When hit by N-Air or F-Air, SDI away to avoid the last hit. Otherwise, you should have a slight advantage in the air.
  
  
• When Falco is Recovering:
  Falco really only has one option when recovering, Phantasm. Falco puts himself in an extremely dangerous situation when trying to recover with Firebird: it's slow, easily edgehogged, and easily countered. If Falco is trying to Firebird from below the stage (which is usually the only time Falco should) fall next to him and B-Air him into the stage.
  
  As for Phantasm, there are multiple angles to consider. When Falco is coming back to the edge from far away, he's either going to sweetspot the edge or plan on landing on the stage just above it. If you can properly predict him sweetspotting the edge, edgehog quickly for the kill. If he's planning on landing just above, you can wait for him and D-Smash his landing. If you don't want to predict his choice, you can attempt to interrupt the Phastasm with a B-Air (which is risky but highly rewarding). However, it's less risky to B-Air the Falco before he even starts the Phantasm.
  
  
• When ZSS is Recovering:
  There are two options that Falco has to gimp ZSS. He can properly predict her aerial path and spike her with D-Air (must be above the stage), or he can stagespike you with the B-Air which is made easy by the set-path of ZSS's tether. Be careful of recovering high with Flipjump, since it's very easily spiked. Also be careful of stalling on the ledge with your tether, since Falco can easily drop down with a B-Air and stagespike you (since B-Air's hitbox lasts so long). Try to mix-up your recovery when recovering from below, or recover so high that Falco can't reach you with his aerials.
  
  
• Matchup Unique Information:
  Falco's chaingrab can be escaped at >30% by flipjumping immediately out of hit-stun. Before 30%, Falco will be able to walking chaingrab you.
  

Counterpick Advice:

• Stages to Counter-pick:
  • Brinstar - The fallthrough stage helps make it dangerous for Falco's Phantasm, his only option for recovery. It also doesn't have a stage to spike with, so he can't gimp your tether with B-Air. The close quarters help lower his ability to laser and the lava helps bring the fight into the air, where the fight is more balanced.
  • Frigate Orpheon - Again, small quarters means less laser game. The lack of edge on the right side also helps to remove his choices for recovery, forcing him to Firebird. However, this should be considered a double-edged sword since getting spiked off the right side means death.
• Stages to Avoid:
  • Stages with wide spaces (Final Destination, Jungle Japes, etc.)

Falco Contributors:

GMo
8Angel8
Thanks guys!​

 

[Keitaro]

Lasers

I 2-0ed Snakeee's ZSS basically using lasers, dairs, and bairs. I felt really gay after the matches though.