Zero Suit Samus Help

[Xaltis]

Hello everyone, new to this part of the forums but not to PM. I main Zero Suit Samus in PM (should be obvious) and just thought I should come here to see if anyone knows anything that I don't know yet. We've recently had our MLG qualifier for Melee down here with a PM tourney as well on the same day. Out of about 60 people I placed 7th as ZSS. It was "Fear the Green Missile" in case anyone is interested. I lost to Wizzrobe and Nick Riddle in the top 8 bracket. I think I'm fine with the Sonic match up, unless anyone knows how to avoid being gimped by Sonic's up B. Also advice against Link would be good, since Link in general is someone I struggle against, also Fox. Those were the main 3 characters I have trouble against for right now. Any kind of help or advice would be much appreciated.

http://smashboards.com/rankings/fear-the-green-missle-project-m-top-8-bracket.908/event

 

[Daftatt]

Don't fight fox with ZSS, get a counterpick. Mine is squirtle

As far as sonic's spring block gimp, you should try and pick stages that ZSS can walljump stall on (green hill zone, yoshi's story, fountain, dreamland). flipjump-walljump-upB tether.
Really, if he is perfect with timing always... I guess you can't do much but reel in as fast as you can, or try and flipjump or air dodge onto stage when possible. You can also get one lazer off at stage level and still upB tether in time, so you could always try and cover your recovery that way.

Link is interesting, I have spent a lot of time working on my perfect shielding and that is honestly how I deal with him, shut down his projectiles. I think ZSS has a really nice perfect shield, easy to do.

Something ZSS players don't do enough in general is to bait by running away then shorthop b-reversal lazer dash-cancel into grab. If they sheild or spotdodge or are hit by the lazer, and you have your various pivot/slide/reverse grabs down, ZSS can ALWAYS grab. If link gets smart and just Hylian sheilds lazers (not totally sure if he can, but probably) then you can always wavebounce in with sideB. In fact sideB clanks with many projectiles, try it out on boomerang. It's an effective way to shut down incoming projectiles from a distance, just make sure you RAR away from your opponent when you do it so the lag on clank does not get punished.

 

[Xaltis]

Don't fight fox with ZSS, get a counterpick. Mine is squirtle

As far as sonic's spring block gimp, you should try and pick stages that ZSS can walljump stall on (green hill zone, yoshi's story, fountain, dreamland). flipjump-walljump-upB tether.
Really, if he is perfect with timing always... I guess you can't do much but reel in as fast as you can, or try and flipjump or air dodge onto stage when possible. You can also get one lazer off at stage level and still upB tether in time, so you could always try and cover your recovery that way.

Link is interesting, I have spent a lot of time working on my perfect shielding and that is honestly how I deal with him, shut down his projectiles. I think ZSS has a really nice perfect shield, easy to do.

Something ZSS players don't do enough in general is to bait by running away then shorthop b-reversal lazer dash-cancel into grab. If they sheild or spotdodge or are hit by the lazer, and you have your various pivot/slide/reverse grabs down, ZSS can ALWAYS grab. If link gets smart and just Hylian sheilds lazers (not totally sure if he can, but probably) then you can always wavebounce in with sideB. In fact sideB clanks with many projectiles, try it out on boomerang. It's an effective way to shut down incoming projectiles from a distance, just make sure you RAR away from your opponent when you do it so the lag on clank does not get punished.

I see, I do all the technical stuff I need to do, I always do pivot lazors or double pivot reverse lazors, I know about the wall jumps that I should be doing, that might be my fault for no going Distant Planet against Wizzrobe, but I didn't know if that stage is really good for Sonic or not. As for Fox is picking another character you're only answer for that? I can't perfect shield yet, it's not something I've practiced so I guess I should sometime.

 

[Daftatt]

I see, I do all the technical stuff I need to do, I always do pivot lazors or double pivot reverse lazors, I know about the wall jumps that I should be doing, that might be my fault for no going Distant Planet against Wizzrobe, but I didn't know if that stage is really good for Sonic or not. As for Fox is picking another character you're only answer for that? I can't perfect shield yet, it's not something I've practiced so I guess I should sometime.

Yeah lol even Oro!? says it's an ungodly awful matchup against fox (he recommended going dreamland if you do it though), you definitely seem like you have your ZSS down making it up to wizzy, although I didn't realize you could pick Distant Planet in singles, that would be a prime choice IMO.
I don't play ZSS against a fox the same reason Bowsers don't play against ZSS, the shut down is too real.

If you are determined to stick out the fox MU. There are amazingly difficult footstool gimps you can do
http://smashboards.com/threads/zss-footstool-uses.346437/

Instead of going straight for footstool out of stun against spacies at low %s, it is actually easier to dair->footstool. Spacies and other decently fastfallers like Falcon will lose height when hit with Dair offstage. That is to say, dair will barely pop them up, and then they will fall significantly further than you popped them up. Dair has a very fast IASA and you can likely combo into footstool by doing dair-> fastfall-> footstool before they can even act out of hitstun.

Notes about the DSmash attempt for gimps you are trying. It is possible to tech the DSmash into the stage and prevent this gimp setup as soon as you get stunned, and you get a second attempt by DIing into the stage as soon as the stun ends. This is probably the most effective against Yoshi since he does not have a recovery move even if he does manage to tech either parts of dsmash. It will probably be more effective to wait for his airdodge if he does manage to tech though.

I have tried it and it's hard but very rewarding (if a fox is going to sweetspot the ledge with up-B, just drop down and Bair.

 

[Xaltis]

Yeah lol even Oro!? says it's an ungodly awful matchup against fox (he recommended going dreamland if you do it though), you definitely seem like you have your ZSS down making it up to wizzy, although I didn't realize you could pick Distant Planet in singles, that would be a prime choice IMO.
I don't play ZSS against a fox the same reason Bowsers don't play against ZSS, the shut down is too real.

If you are determined to stick out the fox MU. There are amazingly difficult footstool gimps you can do
http://smashboards.com/threads/zss-footstool-uses.346437/



I have tried it and it's hard but very rewarding (if a fox is going to sweetspot the ledge with up-B, just drop down and Bair.

So I was trying this out, and honestly I don't think it's worth it, people can either mash out of your down smash or not, so to time the foot stool out of it is very hard, and the fact that foot stooling in this game is even harder than Brawl makes it even more difficult to do.

 

[Daftatt]

So I was trying this out, and honestly I don't think it's worth it, people can either mash out of your down smash or not, so to time the foot stool out of it is very hard, and the fact that foot stooling in this game is even harder than Brawl makes it even more difficult to do.

the thing is though, fast fallers can mash out of stun but it's really really dangerous, if they fair/dair they could SD.
I'm not saying this isn't EXTREMELY situational (when I do kill with it though its stupid hype), but if you want some kind of edge in a fox/falco matchup... well, here you go. BTW, the stunstool is actually amazing and easy to get with falco, since he often phantasms into the ledge and stun can always catch that, you could also just wait for the pop-up and f-smash them, which for higher percentages (or bad DI if they are trying to mash out) may be an unrecoverable knock back.

The saltiest way to kill a falco is to low-swing f-tilt him to his death out of a phantasm edge stun.

Also, I do have some honest fox matchup advice.

1. Get them off the stage and stun guard the best you can, unless they try and sweetspot from below, in which case you should just wavedash offstage then upB to edgehog
2. Never try and tether recovery if they can potentially get a shine-gimp, because they will get the shine gimp
3. u-tilt/u-air/upB/upsmash combos can be possible (on a stage like PS2) if you are a god at ZSS pillar combos
4. Laser will be reflected if the fox is at all competent, but they will have to hold a shine to get the reflect, so you can over-b fox as a punish if you dash-cancel your shot and follow the lazer, your over-b needs to hit before he reflects is my point.
5. bait them into your backslide pivot whenever possible (thank god her grab can pull people out of the air)
6. Retreat from fox's air approach (nair-planes and whatnot) with flipjump, if done correctly you can get a punish from it
7. Play on PS2 or any 2+ platform stage and up-smash/upB/upAir poke a lot, sure an SDI out of U-smash is inevitable but for shutting down approach from above there is no equal.
8. Be under fox or very far away from fox onstage, anywhere else is dangerous.
9. My CQC ground game very often becomes SHFFLd Bairs and Uairs
10. If you feel like you need to shield pressure (because you are crazy), jab-dtilt is pretty good, only a small punish window

 

[Xaltis]

I still don't like doing the foot stooling. But the other advice I like and will make sure to use in my ZSS game to improve against these match ups. I REALLY hate grabbing in this match up cause 1 miss grab is death at the wrong percents.

 

[Oro?!]

It's not unwinnable vs spacies. Just prepared for a huge amount of work to take sets off of players that are of the same skill level as you.

 

[ph00tbag]

I think Fox, in particular, is just a match-up that you can't simply counterpick. You could pick another character, but you can really only make the match-up so much easier. Either way, Fox is not as hard for ZSS as Falco, since at least in the Fox match-up you can use ZSS's mobility. Falco locks you down, then forces you to submit to the full brunt of his block-string matrices. It could be worse, since ZSS can force certain laser timings, and her shield isn't booty, so PSes are a thing, but Falco is still a pain in the ass.

It's not unwinnable vs spacies. Just prepared for a huge amount of work to take sets off of players that are of the same skill level as you.

This is basically Oro?!'s way of saying Kels ain't ****.

 

[Oro?!]

I actually think Falco is way easier. Sure Falco has an easier time dictating the match, but he doesn't pose as much threat at any one time in neutral.

 

[Xaltis]

I actually think Falco is way easier. Sure Falco has an easier time dictating the match, but he doesn't pose as much threat at any one time in neutral.

Oh I just realized that was you Oro?! So are you the best ZSS in PM right now? :o

 

[Darkshooter]

Oh I just realized that was you Oro?! So are you the best ZSS in PM right now? :o

He's the best Zamus in PM right now, it's true, it's true!

 

[Xaltis]

He's the best Zamus in PM right now, it's true, it's true!

Well thank god he doesn't live in FL cause I'm pretty sure I'm the best ZSS in FL as of now. At least I haven't seen another one better than me yet.

 

[Tommy_G]

ZSS needs to be nerfed. She has no weaknesses and can handle top tiers with gimps.

 

[Oro?!]

ZSS needs to be nerfed. She has no weaknesses and can handle top tiers with gimps.

Preach!

 

[Strong Badam]

OMG like why can ZSS dair out of her downb???

 

[cannedbread]

She can't even be edgeguard?????

 

[Tommy_G]

She can't be edgeguarded if the Zss is any level of competent.

 

[Xaltis]

I played a bunch of friendlys with Tommy G today incase anyone is wondering...

Mewtwo/Rob and edgeguard ZSS, Link also gives me trouble,just because Zelda sucks, doesn't mean ZSS is op.

 

[Axrz]

I played a bunch of friendlys with Tommy G today incase anyone is wondering...

ROFLLLL the salt is palpable

 

[Daftatt]

Anyone good at her moonwalk yet?

 

[BleachigoZX]

is there a thread with a collection of videos? Or can someone list a bunch of notable ZSS's and their regions?

 

[Daftatt]

is there a thread with a collection of videos? Or can someone list a bunch of notable ZSS's and their regions?

Oro?! - Midwest (chicago)
Leffen - Europe
Xaltis (according to xaltis of course, but I believe him) - Florida
-Chad- is pretty good, saw a vid of him once, I think he is down in Mississipi

There was one other I'm forgetting, someone will fill it in.

Then there is me, gimmicky footstool videos aside, I'm actually very very good with ZSS, and I live in Washington state, so Northwest US.

 

[Xaltis]

Oro?! - Midwest (chicago)
Leffen - Europe
Xaltis (according to xaltis of course, but I believe him) - Florida
-Chad- is pretty good, saw a vid of him once, I think he is down in Mississipi

There was one other I'm forgetting, someone will fill it in.

Then there is me, gimmicky footstool videos aside, I'm actually very very good with ZSS, and I live in Washington state, so Northwest US.

Actually I discovered that there's a player also in FL named Dark Sonic. I know of him, but I found out today he mains ZSS and he might be better than me as of now. But we will see who out places who at CEO. We both currently have 70 points in the ranking system, but due to the system messing up with the "Fear the Green Missile" bracket my points (and everyone else that made it into top 8) didn't get into the system yet. So I am currently not in the rankings.

Also I have some recent videos that I need to put on youtube, once I do I will link them here for anyone who needs them.

 

[Daftatt]

I have been trying to get the smash community on track where I live, so I haven't had the opportunity to go to tournaments, but I might make it to GameClucks in seattle, and a monthly tournament in Olympia WA is starting this month so I will hopefully have some footage to back up my claim that as far as my travels in Oregon and Washington are concerned, I haven't encountered a ZSS my equal yet. California is a different story of course.

 

[BleachigoZX]

I don't really want any attention yet, but I live in PA and attend the Xanadu's in MD/VA and I'm probably the only ZSS there. This game is just so different for me. I never really played melee, small things like oos wavedash don't come to me naturally and I have to think a lot more than just knowing what works in this game, but I'm trying lol

When I get better and have a deeper understanding of how this game works I'll probably start rubbing it on all your faces. js, can't wait. I want to rep her hard.