ZeRo calls Chrom the second best character in the game, the best swordsman in the game, and a better Roy

[ChikoLad]

Can someone elaborate on this "Chrom has a terrible recovery" sentiment?

If you consider "recovery" to just mean Up B, then yeah, sure. But Chrom is in the top 5 air speed in the game. As long as he has his double jump, he usually gets back on stage unless you hit him real low, which isn't easy in this game. And the vertical reach of his Up-B is perfectly fine.

He doesn't have the best recovery by any means and he can be gimped, but it's certainly not the worst in the game. Getting him to a gimpable position off-stage isn't easy either, and Chrom himself can afford to go pretty close to the edge of the screen, especially on Battlefield, and he often will for F-air/N-air strings.

And his Up-B is an insanely good move outside of recovery. Comes out super fast, does something like 25% if all hits connect, and if used off-stage, will drag the opponent down with Chrom and the opponent gets KO'd first, meaning the last stock VS Chrom is always sweat inducing. Call it "Chromicide".

I agree with the sentiment that he is the second best character, and IMO he is the most likely to receive nerfs. Mainly because poor Roy is gonna be left in the shadows as long as Chrom stays as he is. Like, Roy is technically really good, but the difference between Chrom/Roy and Lucina/Marth is MUCH bigger and Chrom is just 100% a better version of Roy, there is no reason to use Roy in tournament play unless you actively seek to handicap yourself. If you're good with Roy, you're even better with Chrom.

The argument could be made that "Roy should be buffed before Chrom gets any nerfs" but literally the only thing holding Roy back is the dumb hilt mechanic and I think there is nothing they can do on Roy's end to salvage that. So Chrom has to be the one to get knocked down a few pegs so that there is actually a reason to use Roy outside of fan dedication.

 

[Arthur97]

Can someone elaborate on this "Chrom has a terrible recovery" sentiment?

If you consider "recovery" to just mean Up B, then yeah, sure. But Chrom is in the top 5 air speed in the game. As long as he has his double jump, he usually gets back on stage unless you hit him real low, which isn't easy in this game. And the vertical reach of his Up-B is perfectly fine.

He doesn't have the best recovery by any means and he can be gimped, but it's certainly not the worst in the game. Getting him to a gimpable position off-stage isn't easy either, and Chrom himself can afford to go pretty close to the edge of the screen, especially on Battlefield, and he often will for F-air/N-air strings.

And his Up-B is an insanely good move outside of recovery. Comes out super fast, does something like 25% if all hits connect, and if used off-stage, will drag the opponent down with Chrom and the opponent gets KO'd first, meaning the last stock VS Chrom is always sweat inducing. Call it "Chromicide".

I agree with the sentiment that he is the second best character, and IMO he is the most likely to receive nerfs. Mainly because poor Roy is gonna be left in the shadows as long as Chrom stays as he is. Like, Roy is technically really good, but the difference between Chrom/Roy and Lucina/Marth is MUCH bigger and Chrom is just 100% a better version of Roy, there is no reason to use Roy in tournament play unless you actively seek to handicap yourself. If you're good with Roy, you're even better with Chrom.

The argument could be made that "Roy should be buffed before Chrom gets any nerfs" but literally the only thing holding Roy back is the dumb hilt mechanic and I think there is nothing they can do on Roy's end to salvage that. So Chrom has to be the one to get knocked down a few pegs so that there is actually a reason to use Roy outside of fan dedication.

I think the main problem is if he loses his jump, which, yeah, makes him pretty helpless. Personally though, I dislike recovering with Luigi more.

As for nerfing Chrom, there is one thing that may stand in the way of that, and that is how much they attack echoes to the original. In 4, if Lucina got unique changes, it was few and far between. The main thing they might do is nerf the spike of Soaring Slash to maybe not kill at 0, or at least not always kill the opponent first.

 

[InfiniteRE]

I think it would be very tough to nerf chrom without also nerfing the other 3. However as good as chrom is, he doesn't seem like a broken character in anyway, he just takes good parts of roy and ike. I don't expect any nerfs until some of these major tournaments kick off.

 

[Captain Sa10]

The worse thing they could do would be listening to others complain about literally week 2 complaints. If they plan to go the “patch culture” route then at least like others have said give it several months. Chrom might not even be considered second best after a few majors because, let’s be honest, this is a fighting game( and fighting games inherently change over time with or without patches).

It might be different if he was literally breaking the game and glitching stuff out. But like others also said, just buff the other 73 or whatever number of lesser used characters before screwing over another.

 

[Fell God]

EDITED THIS WHOLE SECTION IN SO I DON'T DOUBLE POST:

Can someone elaborate on this "Chrom has a terrible recovery" sentiment?

If you consider "recovery" to just mean Up B, then yeah, sure. But Chrom is in the top 5 air speed in the game. As long as he has his double jump, he usually gets back on stage unless you hit him real low, which isn't easy in this game. And the vertical reach of his Up-B is perfectly fine.

His air speed is high, but it means very little when he has abysmal air acceleration (which means he reaches his max air speed very slowly and yes this is a real thing), brick like falling speed, and extremely low midair jump height. Similarly, Little Mac also has a high air speed (higher than Chrom I think) but it is crippled by his various other air stats (also having bad air acceleration I believe).
End of edit please proceed to the original post


Everyone said Chrom will be bad but now they are groveling at our feet and playing as him because he is good, and others ask for nerfs. Truly it is a good time to be a Chrom lover. Now if only I weren't so mediocre so I could be better than the bandwagoners....

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I watched the entirety of Zero's video. Decided to take Chrom out for a spin. The fact the devs are pulling some of the move sets from other FE characters is a pretty neat idea for his character at face value. However, many of us already know how to combat these tools. Outside of that, I genuinely like Chrom due to the nature of how they set him up.

As for his hitboxes and general use of character, it would appear many are being overly zealous in their initial impression of the character. Once people get past the super sensational part they'll see he's just got the same tools other characters have and counter those accordingly.

 

[Izanagi97]

Little Mac also has a high air speed (higher than Chrom I think) but it is crippled by his various other air stats (also having bad air acceleration I believe)

Little Mac is tied with 4 other characters for 12th fastest air speed (Chrom is tied with Roy for 4th fastest air speed) and tied with Ganondorf for 3rd slowest air acceleration (Chrom is tied with 10 other characters, including Roy, for 4th slowest air acceleration)

 

[Bobert]

It's funny seeing so many people asking for Chrom to get nerfed now. People were saying he was the worst character in the game because of his recovery and some were saying that him having no sourspot was actually a downside before the game even came out. But still, ZeRo said Roy was Top 3 in Smash 4 and that turned out to be a really bad call. Same with Bowser in 4. I do think Chrom is obviously better than those two characters though and I don't think he is going to drop to bottom or low tier like they did..most likely.

 

[Arrei]

Can someone elaborate on this "Chrom has a terrible recovery" sentiment?

I don't think many people saying his recovery was bad were referring to the actual distance he could go, it's how limited it is against edgeguarding in this game where you only get one air dodge offstage.

It's not just that his up special is exploitable, it's that it also pairs together with his other attributes to make his recovery path pretty predictable. With no side special, high fall speed, and low air acceleration, he can't mix up his recovery very much. Sure, if he's unchallenged, he won't have a problem getting back to the stage with his air jump and up special unless he got semispiked... but that "if" is the problem.

A number of angles are going to send him too low to be able to airdodge to the ledge, which forces him to go low and use up special. While getting caught by the spinning part is deadly, he is entirely vulnerable for the actual jump between the initial hit and the spin. No armor there. Put a lingering hitbox above him and he'll jump headfirst into it, and consequently get gimped by just about anything. Being a fast faller, it should also be pretty unlikely that an opponent doing this will fall fast enough to get hit by the initial strike unless they're being too hasty, too, so the fear of getting cheesed by Aethercide (y'all appropriating Ike culture when he did this first) is reduced somewhat. (K. Rool in particular could probably just Nair right into his face and armor through any danger)

Even when he can airdodge to the ledge, I'd wager opponents will soon figure out they shouldn't let him get into a position where he can do that, and will threaten him before he gets the chance, burning his air jump and/or dodge. Then he's forced to go low, and a lot of characters are able to either harass him from the stage to set up the edgeguard situation, or screw with his up special even after going offstage themselves.

 

[Wumbo105]

Can someone elaborate on this "Chrom has a terrible recovery" sentiment?

If you consider "recovery" to just mean Up B, then yeah, sure. But Chrom is in the top 5 air speed in the game. As long as he has his double jump, he usually gets back on stage unless you hit him real low, which isn't easy in this game. And the vertical reach of his Up-B is perfectly fine.

He doesn't have the best recovery by any means and he can be gimped, but it's certainly not the worst in the game. Getting him to a gimpable position off-stage isn't easy either, and Chrom himself can afford to go pretty close to the edge of the screen, especially on Battlefield, and he often will for F-air/N-air strings.

And his Up-B is an insanely good move outside of recovery. Comes out super fast, does something like 25% if all hits connect, and if used off-stage, will drag the opponent down with Chrom and the opponent gets KO'd first, meaning the last stock VS Chrom is always sweat inducing. Call it "Chromicide".

You're leaving out the fact that there's no hit box at the top of his up-B which can easily be hit out of and gimped to infinity. A well placed dtilt from basically the whole roster or just measure your dair and hit him at the top, and he's done. Ike is practically invincible thru his rising part of the up B since he throws his sword up first...Chrom can be hit out of it WAY too easily.

 

[Arthur97]

You're leaving out the fact that there's no hit box at the top of his up-B which can easily be hit out of and gimped to infinity. A well placed dtilt from basically the whole roster or just measure your dair and hit him at the top, and he's done. Ike is practically invincible thru his rising part of the up B since he throws his sword up first...Chrom can be hit out of it WAY too easily.

To be fair, Ike could use the help since he's not so oppressive on stage. You may know this, but just pointing it out.