Zelda/Sheik Discussion

[Phaazoid]

maybe samus's taunt transforms her?

 

[Copperpot]

But if Samus were to magically turn into ZSS mid-brawl it would irrate just as many people as it would amaze. People will want to play exclusively as either Samus and ZSS and having a random element that makes them switch between them would be fiddly, annoying and mean players could not strategise. For example, we could see players deliberately taking damage if ZSS was activated by reaching 70% damage for example, which would put the player at a massive disadvantage. In other words, Samus would become one of the most unpopular characters, becuase she would become far too unpredicatble.

I believe Sakurai started off with the intention of linking Samus/ZSS but gave up on the idea and just made ZSS a secret character. The only way I could ever see them being linked is if other characters have alternate forms, but I can't see this happening in a million years. It would just make lots of people very angry!

At this point in time, it's all speculation. Obviously, my ideas aren't what will be reflected in the game iteself, but I remember reading from an official source that "Under certain conditions" Samus would throw off the armor. This would hint that there is some sort of mid-battle change, but what causes it is still under debate. I'd guess that, after the whole Zelda/Shiek fiasco, they would have learned from a mistake and taken corrective action, because allowing the player to choose means that the other character gets no play-time.

If something that is controlled becomes static, it goes from being marginally predictable to very predictable, especially if you know what the conditions are for the change. The problem (in this case) resides in the fact that not only is it predictable for the user, it's also predictable to the enemy.

Of course, if what you said is correct about him making them separate characters, all I have said is moot.

As far as the popularity issue goes, I highly doubt that something along the lines that I had mentioned would break the character, even if it did change her mechanics; however, I could be completely wrong, anyways. So, it doesn't really matter.

 

[Aki-toriko]

Sheik is just a very powerful character, and that is why, nOObs and veterans, all flock to her like pigeons to bread. Newbies like her because it gives them an added advantage, and veterans like her because...well...it gives them an added advantage.

 

[Copperpot]

Too bad it wasn't like pigeons to rice, so that way they'd explode afterwards.

 

[Aki-toriko]

Too bad it wasn't like pigeons to rice, so that way they'd explode afterwards.

Exploding Smashers is never a good thing!
About the ZSS thing, I can see why many would want her and Samus to be 'as one'. It makes the game a lot more fun and unpredictable. But from a skill point of view it would make Samus obselete, because she would rely totally on a gimmick.
Besides, as a keen Samus fan, I'd like to see both versions as seperate because that way the traditional Samus model is spared, but we get a new (and much lovelier) version of Samus as well. We had Mario/Dr Mario in Melee, why not a Suited and unsuited Samus in Brawl?
Wow how on earth did we end up on this topic, I thought this was the Zelda/Sheik thread

 

[BrTarolg]

I don't get it. The argument of "Sheik is easy to get very good at" isn't debunked by the counter-argument along the lines of what BrTarolg posted



That doesn't make sense, because surely if a player has easily gotten to be very good at Sheik they'd no longer fall into the "noob Sheik" category. Or you're attempting to say that being very good with Sheik is often = to being a noob with Sheik in which case I don't think any other character could be said that you're at the same time very good but also a noob with the character.

hmmm

what i mean is in the "noobs tier list" shiek is at the top, and thats why you see "noob shieks" beat all the other "noob roys".

but a "noob shiek" shouldnt be able to beat a significantly better player at any rate - and once it gets to the REALLY best players i dont really think its a case of "this character > all the others" because most of the characters played at that level can pwn anyone.

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i find it interesting with the zamus thing.. as far as gameplay goes, i WOULD like them to be seperate.
but isnt it wierd having two of the SAME character on the screen but just different versions?

i mean, its like having young link and link i suppose, so its doable. but in this case zamus literally IS samus without the suit.

might be interesting if zamus gets a "transform" ability to switch back and forth between the two 0.o though that might make a "broken character" as it were lol

or maybe it would be like a zelda shiek where half of the players play one and the othre half play the other

 

[Fawriel]

Well, hey, Samus is the possible next transforming woman.

I guess the special "conditions" aren't a move or something, but damage... no. That's silly.
I like to think that Sakurai simply meant that Zamus has to be unlocked in a special way, like, maybe she turns into her randomly after using the Final Smash, then has to be fought at the end of the battle and thus unlocked. And afterwards, Zamus can be chosen right away kinda like Sheik or she simply gets her own spot. Best solution, I'd say.

It's not like one of them would end up being unused since not only are their styles not similar at all, but neither of them suck.


EDIT: Waaah, I was too slow again. =<

EDITEDIT:
Dr. Mario = Mario in a white suit

 

[Aki-toriko]

Sheik is just a very powerful character, and that is why, nOObs and veterans, all flock to her like pigeons to bread. Newbies like her because it gives them an added advantage, and veterans like her because...well...it gives them an added advantage.

My opinion on Sheik nOObs and veterans.

The Samus/ZSS could work as a Sheik/Zelda combo, but given the way most characters played as either Sheik or Zelda the same would apply to ZSS, and the end result would just be the destruction of some of Samus' moves. Having them as seperate characters makes a lot more sense, and would mean everyone who wanted to play as both characters at their highest potential would win.
And is there any difference between playing as Samus and ZSS, as there is Mario/Dr Mario, or Link/Young Link?
My guess ZSS is unlocked by completing adventure mode as normal Samus, or something along those lines

 

[Copperpot]

It's possible that they could have similar movesets; they are the same person, after all. From what the trailer shows, though, Zero-Suit Samus looks to have a much more 'flexible' fighting style.

That, and she has a laser-whip.

 

[Phaazoid]

the transformation should be changed to the taunt. it would work well, and you wouldn't have to take out one of samus's moves, and shiek+zelda would gain down b's. everyone wins.

 

[Wiseguy]

@wiseguy
if they make shiek not cheap, would you be angry if it returned?

Well, if Sheik reurned it would be at the expense of a more worthy character - so yeah I would be a little annoyed. Of course, at that point I'll be too busy enjoying Brawl to be too upset...