Zelda new player questions thread (Q + A Thread)

[Dervo]

I have a question!

So one of my main problems with Zelda is getting initial damage on a new opposing stock. With heavies (usually?) I can grab, d-throw, u-smash, nair/kick for a decent chunk of early damage. On spacies I have the cg. Does anyone have and particularly reliable low percentage combos on mid/lightweights, such as Marth or Mario? I can usually do some kind of u-throw aerial (unless a platform messes it up), but that can only get me so far, and grabs aren't always easy to come by. Thoughts?

 

[jtm94]

I am pretty certain downthrow>upsmash>nair/uair still works on them, but I could be mistaken.

Against Mario if he is of higher skill level it will be EXTREMELY hard to get in, try land cancelling Nayru's on fireballs but he can punish that if you do it too often. As for Marth just bait out dash attacks or fsmashes and punish accordingly. NEVER go into the air against Marth because that is where he will punish you the hardest.

 

[Kaeldiar]

I have a question!

So one of my main problems with Zelda is getting initial damage on a new opposing stock. With heavies (usually?) I can grab, d-throw, u-smash, nair/kick for a decent chunk of early damage. On spacies I have the cg. Does anyone have and particularly reliable low percentage combos on mid/lightweights, such as Marth or Mario? I can usually do some kind of u-throw aerial (unless a platform messes it up), but that can only get me so far, and grabs aren't always easy to come by. Thoughts?

Zelda isn't the best at combos, so I see your problem. Quick tip: n-air is really good for platform tech chases, so that can help extend those combos if a platform gets in the way. Anyway, if I can get a grab, I'll almost always go for d-throw unless it's a spacie. It does a fair amount of damage, if they DI incorrectly you have a follow-up, and if they DI properly, you have a tech chase.

Other than grabs, land-canceled Nayru's a good approach against Mario, like @ jtm94 said, and f-tilt > up-smash > aerial is usable against nearly everyone at lower %. You have to be patient and wait for your chances. Against Peach, Jiggs, and other aerial fighters, I find myself sitting back and poking with kicks until something good happens. The occasional grab helps as well.Maybe it's just from getting tech chasing spacies in Melee with Sheik, but that's how I get most of my damage. I like to d-throw and then tech chase. Kick and then tech chase. I'll always be looking for a re-grab, another kick, or a nair, most of the time. If they end up tech-rolling really far away so I can't get them, then I'll get to set up a Din's.

 

[L. Ambrosia]

So people in this thread have been talking about some Zelda combos and I've been messing around with some of them I'm wondering how guaranteed some of them are. Ive only been able to play against CPUs and a couple really casual friends who don't have the best DI so I'm looking for some clarification.

From what I've gathered by reading threads here, Jab > Grab > Dthrow > USmash > Nair is guaranteed on floaties or heavies at low and mid percents, although Kaeldiar says its just a tech chase if they do it right? How viable is it to use a lightning kick instead of nair to put them in edgeguard situation? It seems like you might need to guess their DI to hit it. And is there any way to extend this combo a bit more?

Against fast fallers I've been doing Uthrow x4 > Usmash > aerial from low percents. It seems to always work against CPU and bad players, but can you DI out of this? You can take a CPU falco from 0% to dead from a critted lightning kick using this, so I imagine they can get out of it somewhere.

Are there any other combo chains I should be aware of and practice?

 

[Kaeldiar]

So people in this thread have been talking about some Zelda combos and I've been messing around with some of them I'm wondering how guaranteed some of them are. Ive only been able to play against CPUs and a couple really casual friends who don't have the best DI so I'm looking for some clarification.

From what I've gathered by reading threads here, Jab > Grab > Dthrow > USmash > Nair is guaranteed on floaties or heavies at low and mid percents, although Kaeldiar says its just a tech chase if they do it right? How viable is it to use a lightning kick instead of nair to put them in edgeguard situation? It seems like you might need to guess their DI to hit it. And is there any way to extend this combo a bit more?

Against fast fallers I've been doing Uthrow x4 > Usmash > aerial from low percents. It seems to always work against CPU and bad players, but can you DI out of this? You can take a CPU falco from 0% to dead from a critted lightning kick using this, so I imagine they can get out of it somewhere.

Are there any other combo chains I should be aware of and practice?

Jab > grab > etc. ...is a decent combo. With proper DI, most opponents will be well out of reach of ANYTHING after the d-throw, but floaties and heavies are possible to get to at certain %. If they DI the d-throw properly, they won't pop off the ground very much, but floaties will obviously go a little higher, and heavies are just big enough that you can hit with almost anything, haha. Of course...if they don't know how to DI, d-throw > up-smash > nair is a wonderful combo. You can also use f-throw as a mix-up if they start DI'ing d-throw.
Up-throw chaingrabs are the most wonderful thing in the world against spacies. It's a near guaranteed 0-death on Fox/Falco/Wolf. You have it exactly right. Up-throw a bunch of times, up-smash (sometimes twice), and then kick. Then they're at like 80/90% and you edgeguard :D You mostly have to worry about people jumping out of it or DI'ing to a platform (in which case, n-air is great for platform tech chases). Against other fast fallers, it doesn't work as well, but you can still up-throw > up-smash > aerial and get some really good damage. Captain Falcon, Lucas, and such can jump out of the chaingrab before your second grab, even at 0%

 

[L. Ambrosia]

Thanks for the info Kael. Platforms really can muck up most of these combos, Nair is decent through platforms as you mentioned, but am I correct in saying Zelda should try to play on FD or Smashville? Platforms also make it easier for your opponents to navigate around your Dins Fire setups. Speaking of that, I imagine that with proper Din's placement beforehand you could get a 50% + grab combo on pretty much any character.

Since throws seem so critical for this character (as a combo starter and bthrow as a kill move), what are the best ways to land a grab? Zeldas grab range is pretty good but so easy to punish, and she doesn't have any mobility to chase for one outside of a cancelled Up-B or something. Shield grabbing strong option? I imagine good players are hesitant to get that close since Nayrus is a threat, seems easy enough for them to bait the Nayrus / whiffed grab and punish.

 

[Kaeldiar]

It's match-up dependent, I'd say. Against spacies I like FD and Smashville because of the chaingrab. Otherwise I don't really like them. Zelda gets a lot of use out of the chaingrab (obviously), but she also gets a lot of use out of platforms. It adds another dimension for her to avoid opponents.

Jab > grab is a good set-up. Shieldgrabbing is a little slow, unfortunately, but possible. Teledash is a wonderful movement option to throw off the opponent's spacing, and I get lots of grabs off of that

 

[Dervo]

Since throws seem so critical for this character (as a combo starter and bthrow as a kill move), what are the best ways to land a grab? Zeldas grab range is pretty good but so easy to punish, and she doesn't have any mobility to chase for one outside of a cancelled Up-B or something. Shield grabbing strong option? I imagine good players are hesitant to get that close since Nayrus is a threat, seems easy enough for them to bait the Nayrus / whiffed grab and punish.

I find boost grabbing with Zelda extremely useful. In melee only Sheik and Fox could use it well, but it definitely gives her a range people don't expect on her grabs that help win a lot of spacing battles. She might not be able to tech chase like sheik can (despite the fact that I try out of reflex), but her boost grabs definitely help.

A good space dodge can also help, if most people come in they're going to come in hard to avoid Nayrus (assuming you don't get baited into using Nayrus), you can space dodge a grab or running upsmash and follow with a grab of your own.