Zebes Counterpick Stage Poll

[SSB64-Jel]

I think it maybe fun to have Zebes as a counterpick. What do you guys think? If we have alot of votes for Yes then rules should be updated to add it as so if we have alot of No then we can keep it as it is.

 

[Combo Blaze]

Yes, so it can have the same faith as Peach's Castle.

 

[clubbadubba]

I really hate zebes because of that lava. When it comes all the way up and only leaves the top platform, ugh.

 

[Yobolight]

The map is good IMO because it is both huge and tiny at the same time.

 

[clubbadubba]

lol and why is that a good thing? Not saying you are wrong but stating a fact about a stage and not explaining why it is good doesn't add much. Not trying to be critical, I want to know why that's a good thing.

If the lava just stayed at the bottom, I would be all for zebes. Lava rising is the worst.

 

[Sangoku]

It's not both huge and tiny, it's just too vertical.

 

[The Star King]

SO MANY POLLS SO LITTLE TIME

Also, like, no.

 

[clubbadubba]

Should we make a poll on whether we should stop making polls?

 

[Battlecow]

I'll kill every last mother****ing one of you before I let that happen

not really

but it's bad for reasons besides the lava (which is SUPER BAD, don't get me wrong.)

that slanted weird bottom

 

[asianaussie]

i think congo's slants are much worse than these slants

 

[Zenyore]

Me and Jaime played DK vs Kirby matches on Zebes and the **** was pretty hot and tempting

 

[clubbadubba]

slants are not a bad thing. Just a different/more complicated thing that leads to different strategies.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Me and Jaime played DK vs Kirby matches on Zebes and the **** was pretty hot and tempting

Why Zenyore

 

[XKCP]

It's the perfect counterpick for Yoshi, who we all know has crazy parry invincibility and is unbeatable if played correctly. I don't see how we can't say YES to this option.

 

[rawrimamonster]

Are you crazy? People complain about camping with hyrule...holy **** Zebes is another level of butthurt. **** the lava, that's the least of the problems with that stage.

 

[cmu6eh]

Are you crazy? People complain about camping with hyrule...holy **** Zebes is another level of butthurt. **** the lava, that's the least of the problems with that stage.

The rising lava prevents camping

 

[Yobolight]

No one has demonstrated Zebes camping to be an actual strategy. The lava pattern is not random either and can be learned rather easily.

Unless someone can demonstrate that a tactic that breaks competitive play on the map actually exists the arguments against the stage appear to be founded on personal preference which IMO isn't good enough to warrant the complete ban on the stage.

Someone should get Banze to offer his opinion because he plays on this stage in tourney.

 

[clubbadubba]

what is the lava pattern? Never played on the stage enough to learn it

 

[rawrimamonster]

The rising lava prevents camping

So you're saying because a temporary stage hazard is present that it'll stop floaties from camping platforms? That's like saying because theres a tornado and because people can approach from higher platforms, camping on hyrule wasn't a problem enough that people wanted a ban. It's not the fact that the tactic can be broken, it's the fact that it presents that kind of tactic on a wide stage with lots of room to run, it's in effect the same as hyrule temple in melee with a stage hazard to break up running once in a while. But even so after breakup the camper is still gonna run. I mean yea, you can do this on dreamland to a similar effect but the size of the stage limits as such.

The smash community cant be held to a "dont play gay" honor code, people are gonna play to win and if that means abusing camping to the point of extending the match beyond 10 mins then they're gonna.

 

[SheerMadness]

IMO vertical (platform/air) camping is the most effective camping strategy. People have camped me on dreamland far more effectively than anyone has on hyrule.

There's plenty of mixups and mindgames available to approach and outsmart someone when they're on the same horizontal plane as yourself. You don't however, have those resources when someone is camping above you 99% of the game. You can't just go recklessly waste your jumps trying to chase a platform/air camping Kirby on dreamland.

I'd actually be open to testing Sector Z as a counter pick for that reason. There are no platforms to constantly stay above someone the whole match. They have to come down at some point.

 

[mixa]

Someone should get Banze to offer his opinion because he plays on this stage in tourney.

1st match of a late 2012 GF: banze (Pika) vs Cabelo (Fox) on Zebes, if you guys think it might help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1pR8ZdivPs

—————

@Sheer
Hyrule's 3 plats are worse than the plats of DL; they promote even more "vertical (platform/air) camping".

 

[banze]

Sorry, I'm late eheheheh

Yeah, so my opinion about Zebes.
its is not a bad stage overall, it is'nt big as SZ or Hyrule, avoid stalling at its best and creates a good and fast gameplay. The only problem is that, it is a little annoying when people die due to Lava (and ones might get pissed as well). But then again, the lava is totally predictable.

I've always known when it is going up and down, and I could tell how high it is going as well.
One thing there is to know is that it only moves after an earthquake. for big earthquakes, expect big lava movement.

I've never done anything like that But i thought it would be fun to record the lava behavior, and here it is:

lvl 5: Second platform
lvl 4: First plataform
lvl 3: Bottom of first plataform
lvl 2: Whole ground
lvl 1: Both valleys
lvl 0,5: Fisrt valley (on the right)
lvl 0: nothing

And it goes like this (read big for long time):
0 (big) - 0 (big) - 1 - 4 - 5 - 0 - 0,5 (big) - 3 (big) - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2

well , IMO it is really possible to play in high level on this stage and open a vary of possibilities.

Ps: another trick - the lava always throws you to the other way where you are facing, so, before hitting it, turn to the other side with neutral B and it will throw you back to the stage ;]

 

[NovaSmash]

You people want hyrule banned but zebes to be legal? This community has lost it's goddamn mind.

 

[banze]

I dont want to Ban Hyrule ehehe !

 

[MrMarbles]

low damage gimping becomes a non factor because of the lava which makes it an interesting counterpick i suppose. i really hate the rising lava tho even tho it does follow a pattern. i voted no

 

[mixa]

So, I got inspired and here's my run tracking the lava: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqkjcnDRIj-idDE4el9DWlBKUVZJbGNoaWpPaWtrV0E#gid=0

it was too much, I quit.

 

[RockinRudy]

Counter.​

Pick.​

For.​

One.​

Year.​

Hazards too much for you?​

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​

 

[cmu6eh]

As long as we have a different ruleset than the rest of the world w/e. Like the FF8 card game, each region should have its own rules. I Just think there should be more freedom in the american ruleset

 

[NovaSmash]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Battlecow]

Nova, no one who wants hyrule banned wants zebes legalized. Not one person.

The hyrule ban people are reasonable human beings, for the most part

 

[Olikus]

i just saw 12 people want zebes to be legal.

WHAT????

 

[mixa]

B Link voted Yes to ban Hyrule and Yes to allow Zebes.

But yeah, that's one person. I don't know why the guy had to go make one of those meme pics about it.

 

[Yobolight]

I voted make Hyrule a CP, make Zebes a CP

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Imo, DL peaches/hyrule for neutrals,, Congo/zebes for counter...or just offer all as 5 stage cp system and have 2 bans

 

[Battlecow]

Wow really B link

whatever though nova's still misrepresentin'. Most of the zebes peeps are pro-hyrule as well.

I think that once some of those zebes guys have played the game for a little while longer they'll start to see things in a clearer light. like 7 of them are pretty new. I'm honestly not surprised that zebes has some rep; if you could get the message out to some more marginal players you could get a majority easy.

 

[NovaSmash]

B Link voted Yes to ban Hyrule and Yes to allow Zebes.

But yeah, that's one person. I don't know why the guy had to go make one of those meme pics about it.

because i wanted to, got a problem?

 

[mixa]

yep
but
imma call my internet wit gang before i get into these forum battles
hold on

'cause it's closer than you think
and yer standin on the brink

 

[RockinRudy]

Wow really B link

whatever though nova's still misrepresentin'. Most of the zebes peeps are pro-hyrule as well.

I think that once some of those zebes guys have played the game for a little while longer they'll start to see things in a clearer light. like 7 of them are pretty new. I'm honestly not surprised that zebes has some rep; if you could get the message out to some more marginal players you could get a majority easy.

I'v played the game 1 year after launch. ​

I play it competitively.​

Every week I play with competitive scene players.​

We do random stages besides Z and Mushroom kingdom, due to size and broken layout.​

Zebes is good in forcing different map plays and spacing.​

Also if you screw up in the first place your going to get punished anyway.​

The lava adds to it.​

Whats the difference in abusing Tornadoes in Hyrule?​

Thats right.​

Nothing.​

We have fun on the map and the close platforms, ceiling heights makes it very playable and versatile with all characters.​

Even with DK.​

Please get better and stop crying about a not so threatening hazard.​

This isn't Big Blue or poke floats like in Melee.​

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[The Star King]

^Mind naming some of those players?

Surely RockinRudy will deliver.

 

[rjgbadger]

i'm def for variation in stages. although i prefer hyrule and will almost always request it to be played, variation in stages really does prove who the better player is. part of the unique aspect of smash as a fighting game, besides having a 'king of the kill' style, is also having stages that allow for players to react to different situations, and adapt. kongo barrel is predictable, and you can barrel hog. peach's castle has a defined pattern for where the bumper and bridge go. zebes has a lava pattern. having more stages and envoirnments forces you to be more adept at the game. the things unacceptable are unpredictable things like which poke comes out of saffron, pow blocks and pipes in MK, the arwings on Z(not 100% sure if there is a pattern TBH), or ridiculously stupid things like the second cloud on the yoshi's island right side.