Z-Cancel lag

[DaveBF]

I'm wondering exactly what z-canceling does...
With almost every move, z-canceling seems to remove all lag upon landing, however on Kirby's dair, I still see lag (although it is much shorter) even when it is canceled.
What is it that z-canceling does?

Or is this because Kirby's body moves into the ground during the dair, before Kirby's collision with the ground is recognized, making it seem as if Kirby goes down then up?

 

[Wenbobular]

Maybe you're doing it wrong

 

[DaveBF]

Hahaha that could be it, but the lag when I cancel is much shorter than the lag when I don't cancel..
It's like the same animation as if I hadn't canceled, it just doesn't last as long.
But yeah I'll just assume my timing is off haha

 

[gROYn]

I'm sure Z cancelling only removes half of the lag.

 

[ballin4life]

I'm sure Z cancelling only removes half of the lag.

In 64 it removes all.

 

[gROYn]

In 64 it removes all.

That's pretty awesome.

 

[Daedatheus]

What you're probably seeing is just the landing animation that would happen whether or not you did an aerial. With Kirby the effect is likely to be more pronounced because of his "bouncy" style of animation, that's all.

If you z-cancel properly then 100% of the lag from any aerial is cancelled.

 

[Fireblaster]

You can definitely see the landing lag when you zcancel link's sword aerials constantly. It sometimes makes me thing I'm holding Z too long and doing the start up shield animation, when I'm really not.

 

[MattNF]

I'm sure Z cancelling only removes half of the lag.

In Melee it removes half, in 64 it removes all.

 

[NixxxoN]

Its hard to z-cancel every move in the game, because of the amount of differnt timings and stuff

 

[Fireblaster]

Its hard to z-cancel every move in the game, because of the amount of differnt timings and stuff

All zcancels have the same timing.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

He means different aerial-to-landing durations. Z-cancelling an aerial 15 frames into the aerial is easier than Z-cancelling an aerial 2 frames into the aerial. Timing is always the same.

 

[SpongeBathBill]

What you're probably seeing is just the landing animation that would happen whether or not you did an aerial. With Kirby the effect is likely to be more pronounced because of his "bouncy" style of animation, that's all.

If you z-cancel properly then 100% of the lag from any aerial is cancelled.

Does that mean you can interrupt the landing animation with an input?

 

[gROYn]

Does that mean you can interrupt the landing animation with an input?

Try on training mode? You can make the game pretty slow and find out yourself.

 

[NixxxoN]

Yeah what Blue Yoshi said. For example, a falcon fasfalled dair, and a slow move like DKs short hop dair

 

[Zen Yore]

Try on training mode? You can make the game pretty slow and find out yourself.

lol i forgot you can slow up training mode in 64

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

LOL I do falcon vs falcon combos in slow-mo all the time.

Uair to falcon punch looks so epic at 1/3 speed

 

[Daedatheus]

Yeah what Blue Yoshi said. For example, a falcon fasfalled dair, and a slow move like DKs short hop dair

I learned to z-cancel visually, solved this problem. For some moves, however, absolute muscle memory is required (each fastfalled sh uairs, ff nairs into the **** tent, etc.)

 

[House]

Remember ppl that unlike melee, z-cancelling any fast-falled aerial in ssb64 will almost triple the amount of landing lag before you can move than non fast-falled aerials.

 

[DaveBF]

Ah I wasn't really aware that fast-falling had any effect on z-canceled lag.

 

[gROYn]

lol i forgot you can slow up training mode in 64

Slow dowwwnnn. >_>

 

[NixxxoN]

I learned to z-cancel visually, solved this problem.

You mean z-cancel not on memory but always timing on the landing moment?

 

[Fireblaster]

Remember ppl that unlike melee, z-cancelling any fast-falled aerial in ssb64 will almost triple the amount of landing lag before you can move than non fast-falled aerials.

I have never noticed this. Probably because the frames you gain from fast falling make up for the landing lag, but still. Nice to know.

 

[Skrlx]

House needs to stop winning threads

 

[Lawrencelot]

You mean z-cancel not on memory but always timing on the landing moment?

Just look at how fast your character is falling and how far it is from the ground, how hard can it be? You don't need to memorize anything at all. The only trouble I have (had) with Z-canceling is that the timing is different for example with fox's dair if you hit a shield than when you don't hit a shield. Oh and doing two aerials in one shorthop with the mario brothers for example. And canceling DJC attacks with Yoshi.

 

[DMoogle]

Somewhat related question: How do you guys that can pull off Mario's d-air to u-air in a single short hop do it so consistently? Do you try timing it all or do you basically spam? I can get it maybe a 1/3 of the time when I'm practicing, but much less often in a real match.

-A$

 

[NixxxoN]

Just look at how fast your character is falling and how far it is from the ground, how hard can it be? You don't need to memorize anything at all. The only trouble I have (had) with Z-canceling is that the timing is different for example with fox's dair if you hit a shield than when you don't hit a shield. Oh and doing two aerials in one shorthop with the mario brothers for example. And canceling DJC attacks with Yoshi.

I see. If someone started with Ness like me, they you'll have more z-cancel problems as the dair and uair z-cancel is not needed for him, there fore not so used at it.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Somewhat related question: How do you guys that can pull off Mario's d-air to u-air in a single short hop do it so consistently? Do you try timing it all or do you basically spam? I can get it maybe a 1/3 of the time when I'm practicing, but much less often in a real match.

-A$

you just need to learn the timing

do it in slow motion....in training mode...
then do it quicker
and quicker
and then normal speed vs a level 1 cpu

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can actually spam the Z button before you land and it works as well.

 

[ballin4life]

Somewhat related question: How do you guys that can pull off Mario's d-air to u-air in a single short hop do it so consistently? Do you try timing it all or do you basically spam? I can get it maybe a 1/3 of the time when I'm practicing, but much less often in a real match.

-A$

Make sure you are sliding your thumb from down c to a so you start your dair as quickly as possible. Seriously I could not do it at all without using the sliding technique (same thing btw for faster djcs with ness except slide from right c to down c to a). After that it's just practice because you have to time the uair differently depending on whether you hit.

 

[Daedatheus]

Make sure you are sliding your thumb from down c to a so you start your dair as quickly as possible.

Or if you position your hands, you can press left or down C with your thumb and A with the joint of your thumb. This is a good habit to get into, I rarely thumb the A button for any character. Less frantic hand movement.