Your Opinions on Patch 1.1.1?

[LordCQ]

Is there a comprehensive thread around with all the characters' changes from this patch? Thanks!

 

[Tino]

Just like all the previous patches, nothing very special except for the new stages. Balance changes to the characters abolutely mean nothing to me.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Pretty sure there's no such thing as air traction. As for Green Missile, if you're reading recoveries, than you can just as easily spike with down air and Cyclone, both of which have a definite chance of killing. And if an opponent air dodges near me, I'm going to FJP them, not GM.

Aerial Deceleration and Aerial Acceleration are attributes that are assigned on an individual basis for every character in the game's code, at least in Brawl. They determine how quickly a character is able to lose lateral air speed and how quickly a character is able to gain lateral air speed, respectively. There's also Air Friction, the rate at which an airborne character naturally loses horizontal momentum when no lateral directional input is made, and this also varies on a character-to-character basis. Collectively, these attributes are often referred to as "air traction". For an example of a character with great air traction, see Wario, Jigglypuff, or Luigi. For a character with absolutely terrible air traction, see Ryu.

Luigi has **** maximum air speed. We know this. As such, it's not always practical for him to leap after the opponent with a DAir or Cyclone even if he does know exactly where they're going to be. Green Missile, on the other hand, conveniently circumvents the Luigi's horrible air speed.

FJP sweetspot is far tighter than the range for Green Missile, and going for FJP in that situation requires a harder read than simply delaying a Green Missile that appeared as though it was going to be used as a combo finisher anyway. It's about mixing it up and keeping yourself unpredictable. The fact is that the mere threat of a misfire, even if you can't control whether or not it will happen, has a certain amount of intimidation factor for the opponent as they have to treat every Green Missile you use as if it's going to be a misfire, at least when they're anything remotely close to kill percents. I don't play Luigi, but I've seen Green Missile used in those ways by players of a far higher caliber than myself.

 

[EtrianHero23]

I have mixed feelings on this patch. On one hand, the Samus and Bowser buffs are great. As well as the Luigi Down Throw nerf. I like how they actually buffed certain customs so that we have more incentive to use them. In addition, the universal shield nerf is good, it brings about a much more fast paced metagame in which I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy.

However, the shield nerf has come with its own set of problems. Having moves being more safe on block seems like a great idea, but I think that this will indirectly hurt heavies in general. A majority of them aren't as fast as others, as well as their normal/aerials not coming out fast enough to compete with stuff like Sheik's Fair, Sex Kick nair's, ZSS' Nair/Bair, etc. In addition, they are also locked down by projectile users even more than they already are. Unless heavies get some massive buffs that help them approach other characters, their future is not looking bright in the meta.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I have mixed feelings on this patch. On one hand, the Samus and Bowser buffs are great. As well as the Luigi Down Throw nerf. I like how they actually buffed certain customs so that we have more incentive to use them. In addition, the universal shield nerf is good, it brings about a much more fast paced metagame in which I'm sure a lot of people will enjoy.

However, the shield nerf has come with its own set of problems. Having moves being more safe on block seems like a great idea, but I think that this will indirectly hurt heavies in general. A majority of them aren't as fast as others, as well as their normal/aerials not coming out fast enough to compete with stuff like Sheik's Fair, Sex Kick nair's, ZSS' Nair/Bair, etc. In addition, they are also locked down by projectile users even more than they already are. Unless heavies get some massive buffs that help them approach other characters, their future is not looking bright in the meta.

One interesting change is the way hitlag interacts with shields, actually counteracting the increased shieldstun from projectiles in some cases.

Also, a lot of high-tier characters had moves that were already very safe on shield, so the change is only that they get even safer. Heavies, on the other hand, have moves become safe on shield that previously weren't, which is a very nice buff. It could go either way, so we'll see how it plays out.

 

[TheBaconDrinker]

because Marth/Lucina needed a nerf. They were pretty bad to begin with, now they are marginally worse.

However, there is some comfort in the fact that it was only one nerf.

 

[Zeth444]

The Shield Change is Amazing. Now more moves will be safe on Shield, What may allow some characters to be better, if it is enought to make someone gain their First safe-on-shield-move.

Also,

OMG 3DS GOT DUCK HUNT!!!

 

[MarioMeteor]

Being a Jigglypuff main, I am grateful for the shield nerf.

 

[Zeth444]

Being a Jigglypuff main, I am grateful for the shield nerf.

Fair ia now safe? Or is Bair safer? Why Jiglypuff in special?

 

[Deleted member]

I was a bit disappointed with the balance patch. I was upset with Marth's sheildbreaker nerf although some argue it wasn't really a nerf to begin with.
I want the stages but I'm low on money right now so I'll purchase them in the future.

 

[LancerStaff]

because Marth/Lucina needed a nerf. They were pretty bad to begin with, now they are marginally worse.

However, there is some comfort in the fact that it was only one nerf.

Hate to say this but the shield mechanics changes make Marth's (and Roy's) sourspots less safe then before. That's a pretty big nerf...

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Hate to say this but the shield mechanics changes make Marth's (and Roy's) sourspots less safe then before. That's a pretty big nerf...

Not as big for Marth as it is for Roy though, since Marth's tipper is now safer than it used to be so he can just space for that instead.

 

[JAZZ_]

I hate it.

All buffs are on customs moves...

They nerfed Kirby....... They nerfed Luigi......

YOU'RE GETTING NERFED SAKURAI

Not Samus she got a broken move fixed

 

[LancerStaff]

Not as big for Marth as it is for Roy though, since Marth's tipper is now safer than it used to be so he can just space for that instead.

Two things though. First, you won't always get tippers. And second, since Marth's relying on shieldstun and not frame data, meaning you can shield DI (or whatever, a concept I'm not familiar with for obvious reasons) whichever way you want to either make it less safe or to escape pressure. Still a big deal for Marth.

 

[EtrianHero23]

One interesting change is the way hitlag interacts with shields, actually counteracting the increased shieldstun from projectiles in some cases.

Also, a lot of high-tier characters had moves that were already very safe on shield, so the change is only that they get even safer. Heavies, on the other hand, have moves become safe on shield that previously weren't, which is a very nice buff. It could go either way, so we'll see how it plays out.

Maybe I was a bit too negative. As you said, we still have no idea on how the nerf to shields will affect the meta. I'm just hoping that heavies won't be affected negatively because of this change. Here's to hoping for a more balanced meta.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Two things though. First, you won't always get tippers. And second, since Marth's relying on shieldstun and not frame data, meaning you can shield DI (or whatever, a concept I'm not familiar with for obvious reasons) whichever way you want to either make it less safe or to escape pressure. Still a big deal for Marth.

Yes, but Roy now lost his safe spacing pretty much altogether thanks to this change, since his sourspot is at the tip, precisely where you'd ordinarily want to land a hit for proper spacing.

 

[LancerStaff]

Yes, but Roy now lost his safe spacing pretty much altogether thanks to this change, since his sourspot is at the tip, precisely where you'd ordinarily want to land a hit for proper spacing.

I'm trying to say it still hurts Marth pretty bad.

Real talk, how are the Roys handling this?

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I'm trying to say it still hurts Marth pretty bad.

Real talk, how are the Roys handling this?

I haven't really played much since the patch. Only playtesting I did was before we found out about the massive change to shield mechanics, and I was messing around with Mega Man's Ice Slasher buff (I don't have Hyper Bomb or Skull Barrier yet, much to my annoyance). I don't really have a single "main" on account of not really being a competitive player myself (more a semi-casual who employs competitive play techniques and terminology), I just set it to Roy since when he came out he was a character I was able to pick up and do decently with pretty quickly, and I hadn't really come close to figuring out Smash 4 Pit yet. And I'm still not sure what I think of Smash 4 Lucario since a lot of his stuff feels laggier/less responsive than in Brawl, especially that huge nerf his rolls took compared to the rest of the cast.

So I have no real clue how the Roys are handling this, aside from probably relying on ground options like an apparently safe-on-shield jab. Plus, well, I tend to not use shield that much (I occasionally used it pre-patch but mostly relied on sidestep dodges, rolls, and counters/reflectors since my friends are predictable AF) and most of my friends don't really shield either. (Heck, the fact that they even use rolls/sidesteps is largely due to my influence.) So basically, my OoS skills are nonexistent anyway, my friends don't let me practice how to deal with shielding foes, and pre-patch a CPU sitting in shield was a thing it was best to just wait out due to their sporadic input reading tendencies.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Fair ia now safe? Or is Bair safer? Why Jiglypuff in special?

They both are. Jigglypuff always had a tough time dealing with shields, and now not only is she safer, but she herself is less susceptible to having her shield broken. So no more getting one shotted by Marth.

 

[Solutionme]

They both are. Jigglypuff always had a tough time dealing with shields, and now not only is she safer, but she herself is less susceptible to having her shield broken. So no more getting one shotted by Marth.

Yeah jiggs is trash, only tactic you need is up-smash and up-b OoS, she has no good aerial combos either and no good follow-ups after 20% for rest. She also falls and moves a little too slow imo.

because Marth/Lucina needed a nerf. They were pretty bad to begin with, now they are marginally worse.

However, there is some comfort in the fact that it was only one nerf.

That's not a big issue, though I will admit for the move's name being shield breaker it is very uncalled for.

I'm trying to say it still hurts Marth pretty bad.

Real talk, how are the Roys handling this?

Roys are handling this new patch pretty well, much better than Marth, but now a tipped f-smash with Marth can't be punished thankfully. Flare blade is just that much more OP and we can get away with tipping some moves.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Maybe so, but it was his only means of reliably KOing. Without anything to make up for it, there's just an empty hole where Luigi's KO power should be. It's things like this that make people complain that this game is too slow.

Diddy was bull**** because of a variety of reasons, not just the Hoo-Ha. Luigi's Hoo-Ha was escapable and it didn't kill as early as Diddy's. If it was really that bad, then they should've nerfed the Cyclone instead of the whole throw. Now instead of fishing for grabs, Luigi's gonna be spamming the C-Stick up every time he wants to kill someone, which is just as, if not more salt-inducing.

uh i might be a bit late on this but i couldn't not say something, sorry if someone already replied to this.

1. Luigi's slowest ground attack is his f-smash at frame 12. He has 3 fast smash attacks, jab lock kills at 50%, b-air, and others. Having a throw kill combo that kills characters at 70% isn't a "good option for killing" its a dumb option that shouldb't be in the game in the first place.

thats the 2nd thing, Diddy's hoo-hah was less true. It was like a better version of sheik's 50/50 that killed at maybe 90/100% or something. Thats not what Luigi's d-throw cyclone was. Luigi's had to be SDI'd really fast to even have a SHOT at escaping, and it kills at 70/80%. See how that is dumb? But that wasn't the only problem.

Luigi's d-throw could do 40% each grab with some simple DI reads. These weren't even hard either. If you were big it was even more percent. If they nerfed cyclone, his d-throw still would be the best throw combo in the game and would make him a braindead character.

You're literally complaining that Luigi is a fair character now. He has to get kills the way most other characters have, he doesn't have that 70% true death combo anymore, he cant get 40% from one grab. I'm not saying he deserved the nerf more than other characters, but at a non-top level of play Luigi was simply dumb and thats what Sakurai cares about mostly.

 

[Solutionme]

I'm trying to say it still hurts Marth pretty bad.

Real talk, how are the Roys handling this?

uh i might be a bit late on this but i couldn't not say something, sorry if someone already replied to this.

1. Luigi's slowest ground attack is his f-smash at frame 12. He has 3 fast smash attacks, jab lock kills at 50%, b-air, and others. Having a throw kill combo that kills characters at 70% isn't a "good option for killing" its a dumb option that shouldb't be in the game in the first place.

thats the 2nd thing, Diddy's hoo-hah was less true. It was like a better version of sheik's 50/50 that killed at maybe 90/100% or something. Thats not what Luigi's d-throw cyclone was. Luigi's had to be SDI'd really fast to even have a SHOT at escaping, and it kills at 70/80%. See how that is dumb? But that wasn't the only problem.

Luigi's d-throw could do 40% each grab with some simple DI reads. These weren't even hard either. If you were big it was even more percent. If they nerfed cyclone, his d-throw still would be the best throw combo in the game and would make him a braindead character.

You're literally complaining that Luigi is a fair character now. He has to get kills the way most other characters have, he doesn't have that 70% true death combo anymore, he cant get 40% from one grab. I'm not saying he deserved the nerf more than other characters, but at a non-top level of play Luigi was simply dumb and thats what Sakurai cares about mostly.

He still has some pretty solid kill combos, especially because of the spike hitbox being increased and d-smash having better knockback. D-tilt's buff form last patch also helps in some cases I hear. Also I've seen the good follow-ups d-throw still has, so yeah it pretty much was a fair nerf, something Sheik, Rosaluma and ZSS need, along with Sonic. Seriously Rosaluma shouldn't be so hard to nerf, make it take 35 seconds min for a luma to respawn.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Yeah jiggs is trash, only tactic you need is up-smash and up-b OoS, she has no good aerial combos either and no good follow-ups after 20% for rest. She also falls and moves a little too slow imo.

The amount of things wrong with this comment baffles me. Let's start with #1, Jigglypuff is not trash, not at all, she's low mid tier at worst, #2, up smash and Sing are atrocious moves that are too slow to be used at all, much less out of shield, #3, Jigglypuff has very good aerial combos and can sometimes Sheik you right off the stage with forward airs, #4, follow ups after Rest? Is this a joke? And last, but not least, #5, the Balloon Pokémon falls slow? I'm sure your mind must be boggled.

uh i might be a bit late on this but i couldn't not say something, sorry if someone already replied to this.

Shame. You could've saved us both some valuable time.

1. Luigi's slowest ground attack is his f-smash at frame 12. He has 3 fast smash attacks, jab lock kills at 50%, b-air, and others. Having a throw kill combo that kills characters at 70% isn't a "good option for killing" its a dumb option that shouldb't be in the game in the first place.

Forward smash has no range, up smash needs to be sweetspotted and good luck landing it with Luigi's traction, down smash doesn't kill, jab locks are unreliable as ****, and back air has like, 3 sourspots. The Cyclone Hoo-Ha (that's the new official name for it) wasn't broken by itself, it was Rage that made it crazy. I'm not complaining about the Cyclone Hoo-Ha being gone, I'm complaining about everything else, plus the Cyclone Hoo-Ha being gone.

thats the 2nd thing, Diddy's hoo-hah was less true. It was like a better version of sheik's 50/50 that killed at maybe 90/100% or something. Thats not what Luigi's d-throw cyclone was. Luigi's had to be SDI'd really fast to even have a SHOT at escaping, and it kills at 70/80%. See how that is dumb? But that wasn't the only problem.

Please, Diddy's was damn near guarenteed. Then the damn thing was like, frame 4, and with Diddy's banana bull****, it was a constant torrent of Hoo-Ha and bull****. Luigi wishes he had something that stupid,

Luigi's d-throw could do 40% each grab with some simple DI reads.

Welcome to Smash 4.

These weren't even hard either. If you were big it was even more percent.

See above.

If they nerfed cyclone, his d-throw still would be the best throw combo in the game and would make him a braindead character.

Lies, garbage, and salt.

You're literally complaining that Luigi is a fair character now. He has to get kills the way most other characters have, he doesn't have that 70% true death combo anymore, he cant get 40% from one grab. I'm not saying he deserved the nerf more than other characters, but at a non-top level of play Luigi was simply dumb and thats what Sakurai cares about mostly.

Luigi went from being a powerful character with exploitable weaknesses to a character that has nothing going for him besides quick moves, which mean nothing because he no longer has any thing to set them up with. Luigi was always fair, now he's fair and broken, not as in OP, but as in unfinished. Incomplete. The Cyclone Hoo-Ha first of all, didn't KO at 70%, and second of all, was one of the few ways Luigi could safely take off a stock. It was also easily circumvented by simply not getting grabbed, which wasn't exactly hard considering Luigi has iced butter on his shoes and has the grab range of a toddler. Sakurai doesn't give a **** about balance, that's why Sheik exists and this game is balanced around free-for-alls. Hell, Melee exists! There's your proof right there what Sakurai thinks you can do with your "balance."

 

[Travitoninja99]

 

[Solutionme]

The amount of things wrong with this comment baffles me. Let's start with #1, Jigglypuff is not trash, not at all, she's low mid tier at worst, #2, up smash and Sing are atrocious moves that are too slow to be used at all, much less out of shield, #3, Jigglypuff has very good aerial combos and can sometimes Sheik you right off the stage with forward airs, #4, follow ups after Rest? Is this a joke? And last, but not least, #5, the Balloon Pokémon falls slow? I'm sure your mind must be boggled.

1# Yeah and what? I think she does fall a little too slow, if you were to start deflating, you'd lose the air inside you so you'd fall faster, so much for a balloon pokemon right? #2 she is, even with this patch she is still not that great because she has no good ways to answer shielding opponents or opponents who admittedly roll spam like crazy, though the second issue is less of a problem. #3 Her aerial combos rely more on DI than anything else, and if she does get true combos with her aerials then it's probably some percent range that is too small or is at a point where it would be better to have some alternative. #4 You didn't understand what I meant by my comment, I meant that is what needs to be used against her to win, the scrubby way anyways. #5 You read it wrong again, what I said is that after 20% she has no good follow-ups to combo into rest with, though I can see how that one could be misunderstood easily. You shouldn't assume the stupid part of something when clearly there is another side of it. Also you sound a little too hypocritical right now, but it just might be how I'm reading it in context.

 

[Deleted member]

Stages are nice but honestly I'm rather underwhelemed, especially by the lack of any real important character changes. I guess the shieldstun thing is nice though, encourages more offensive play. Guess I'll see what the Ballot patch will offer.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

The amount of things wrong with this comment baffles me. Let's start with #1, Jigglypuff is not trash, not at all, she's low mid tier at worst, #2, up smash and Sing are atrocious moves that are too slow to be used at all, much less out of shield, #3, Jigglypuff has very good aerial combos and can sometimes Sheik you right off the stage with forward airs, #4, follow ups after Rest? Is this a joke? And last, but not least, #5, the Balloon Pokémon falls slow? I'm sure your mind must be boggled.

Shame. You could've saved us both some valuable time.

Forward smash has no range, up smash needs to be sweetspotted and good luck landing it with Luigi's traction, down smash doesn't kill, jab locks are unreliable as ****, and back air has like, 3 sourspots. The Cyclone Hoo-Ha (that's the new official name for it) wasn't broken by itself, it was Rage that made it crazy. I'm not complaining about the Cyclone Hoo-Ha being gone, I'm complaining about everything else, plus the Cyclone Hoo-Ha being gone.

Please, Diddy's was damn near guarenteed. Then the damn thing was like, frame 4, and with Diddy's banana bull****, it was a constant torrent of Hoo-Ha and bull****. Luigi wishes he had something that stupid,

Welcome to Smash 4.

See above.

Lies, garbage, and salt.


Luigi went from being a powerful character with exploitable weaknesses to a character that has nothing going for him besides quick moves, which mean nothing because he no longer has any thing to set them up with. Luigi was always fair, now he's fair and broken, not as in OP, but as in unfinished. Incomplete. The Cyclone Hoo-Ha first of all, didn't KO at 70%, and second of all, was one of the few ways Luigi could safely take off a stock. It was also easily circumvented by simply not getting grabbed, which wasn't exactly hard considering Luigi has iced butter on his shoes and has the grab range of a toddler. Sakurai doesn't give a **** about balance, that's why Sheik exists and this game is balanced around free-for-alls. Hell, Melee exists! There's your proof right there what Sakurai thinks you can do with your "balance."

You're acting like I insulted you, I didn't once. You're talking about how his moves don't have range, but thats simply false compared to a lot of other character's range. His range is fine, he can still land kills. B-air having 3 sourspots does not matter int he slightest, it isn't hard to hit the sweetspot at all. Cyclone wasn't even OP. the combo d-throw to up-b was OP. I don't care about cyclone, but the cyclone true killing characters at 70% is what was OP. Rage just made it worse.

You saying Diddy's d-throw u-air for kills was guarunteed is a lie. Did you know what Diddy was like pre-patch? It was escapeable, either way he got a followup (f-air if he misses) but it wouldn't kill. Thats where conditioning came in. I'm not saying his d-throw wasn't good for kills, but I'm just stating it wasn't true. Diddy was jank as hell and deserved his nerfs, and Luigi's d-throw was jank as hell and needed a nerf. Luigi had one big thing removed, it isn't too bad.

Welcome to smash 4? Are you saying every character gets 40% off of a grab? Please. Lets see, I can name Sheik and ZSS off the top of my head. Sheik only can do like 35% at max anyways (unless you on smashville), and ZSS has a horrid grab. What does this make Luigi? Luigi is the only character that had the capability to do a reliable 40% off of a grab. There is no way it wasn't the best in the game.

Luigi not having the best grab is wrong. ZSS is the only d-throw comparable to it, yet it is slow and doesn't do 40% off of a grab. It can kill you, but being one of the worst grabs is a major drawback. Luigi had an OK grab, fireball into it, guarunteed damage at all percents and two kill combos on it. It was insane. I'm not saying Luigi was OP, I didn't find him even top 5, but Luigi's kit at low to mid levels of play was too good to not be nerfed. He isn't bad now, quit being salty.

 

[Solutionme]

You're acting like I insulted you, I didn't once. You're talking about how his moves don't have range, but thats simply false compared to a lot of other character's range. His range is fine, he can still land kills. B-air having 3 sourspots does not matter int he slightest, it isn't hard to hit the sweetspot at all. Cyclone wasn't even OP. the combo d-throw to up-b was OP. I don't care about cyclone, but the cyclone true killing characters at 70% is what was OP. Rage just made it worse.

You saying Diddy's d-throw u-air for kills was guarunteed is a lie. Did you know what Diddy was like pre-patch? It was escapeable, either way he got a followup (f-air if he misses) but it wouldn't kill. Thats where conditioning came in. I'm not saying his d-throw wasn't good for kills, but I'm just stating it wasn't true. Diddy was jank as hell and deserved his nerfs, and Luigi's d-throw was jank as hell and needed a nerf. Luigi had one big thing removed, it isn't too bad.

Welcome to smash 4? Are you saying every character gets 40% off of a grab? Please. Lets see, I can name Sheik and ZSS off the top of my head. Sheik only can do like 35% at max anyways (unless you on smashville), and ZSS has a horrid grab. What does this make Luigi? Luigi is the only character that had the capability to do a reliable 40% off of a grab. There is no way it wasn't the best in the game.

Luigi not having the best grab is wrong. ZSS is the only d-throw comparable to it, yet it is slow and doesn't do 40% off of a grab. It can kill you, but being one of the worst grabs is a major drawback. Luigi had an OK grab, fireball into it, guarunteed damage at all percents and two kill combos on it. It was insane. I'm not saying Luigi was OP, I didn't find him even top 5, but Luigi's kit at low to mid levels of play was too good to not be nerfed. He isn't bad now, quit being salty.

Just to add to the argument. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUW46HGInO8 Guess he's done arguing?

 

[Travitoninja99]

My apologies to the community, I should have posted content relating instead of just the picture. Besides, I believe I know who did the warning (ze salty one)

In all seriousness, why is there so much salt over Luigi being nerfed? It was completely justified. Albeit being out of the blue, and not nerfing the one that should have been (Sheik, many would think), there's one large difference; being great with Sheik and other top tiers is quite difficult to do and takes an exuberant amount of time, whereas with Luigi it honestly takes much less skill and time put in to be efficient with him. In other words, now you actually have to develop the character more to make him viable. With his new Down Throw mechanics, it's still possible to easily give your opponent more than 50% off two DThrows. He also has plenty of kill options, his UpSmash and FwSmash are great killing tools, and even his DSmash got a tiny buff too. Shoryu, although for the perfect moment, is a free KO on a perfect punish; no revenge kill a la Rest. His BAir is a decent killing tool at higher percents, and now his DAir got a nice little buff. So just be happy you still have a character that can throw out sick combos all day!

I'm personally stoked that Samus got her previously unusable NAir buffed, I can finally use all of her moves! I wish my Bowser Jr. got a little buff though Hopefully in the upcoming patch!

 

[Solutionme]

My apologies to the community, I should have posted content relating instead of just the picture. Besides, I believe I know who did the warning (ze salty one)

In all seriousness, why is there so much salt over Luigi being nerfed? It was completely justified. Albeit being out of the blue, and not nerfing the one that should have been (Sheik, many would think), there's one large difference; being great with Sheik and other top tiers is quite difficult to do and takes an exuberant amount of time, whereas with Luigi it honestly takes much less skill and time put in to be efficient with him. In other words, now you actually have to develop the character more to make him viable. With his new Down Throw mechanics, it's still possible to easily give your opponent more than 50% off two DThrows. He also has plenty of kill options, his UpSmash and FwSmash are great killing tools, and even his DSmash got a tiny buff too. Shoryu, although for the perfect moment, is a free KO on a perfect punish; no revenge kill a la Rest. His BAir is a decent killing tool at higher percents, and now his DAir got a nice little buff. So just be happy you still have a character that can throw out sick combos all day!

I'm personally stoked that Samus got her previously unusable NAir buffed, I can finally use all of her moves! I wish my Bowser Jr. got a little buff though Hopefully in the upcoming patch!

Her jab still needs to be fixed, her d-smash doesn't kill reliably, some hitboxes are jank, still not enough for me.

 

[Travitoninja99]

True, she still needs more love. Yeah I agree, especially her DSmash, it's such a weak attack, both in power and damage, whenever I use it I think to myself, "I could have used anything else, and would have been better." Still not viable enough for tournament material, but I'm glad they did a little thing.

 

[Rexcalibr]

Mostly the Pirate Ship stage with the Roost music. I like it better than the Mario Maker stage . I change the music so it doesn't play in more than one level,

 

[Travitoninja99]

I miss that stage, I only have a 3DS so I don't get to bask in that glory TT_TT

 

[WwwWario]

Other than the Luigi nerf, which was completely and utterly pants-on-head ********, I'm indifferent on it. I love that they're balancing custom moves, but they haven't done enough for me to care about it. Kong Cyclone is still busted, Spinphony is still the worst move in the game, nothing's really changed. I like to think that this is just the appetizer for a real balance patch on October 3rd, or whenever the Smash Ballot characters are released.

That Luigi nerf was fully deserved. His D Throw combos were disgusting. Still sad that nothing happened to Sheik.

 

[Mysteltainn]

It was a modest patch, just as I was expecting to be honest. More stages are always welcome, but I had a feeling a character wouldn't be dropping in with the Ballot ending so soon. The rest of the patch really doesn't concern me, as I'm not a fan of custom moves and I don't tend to care about Mii costumes.

 

[Solutionme]

I miss that stage, I only have a 3DS so I don't get to bask in that glory TT_TT

Want to know what the problem with Samus is though? She's got a ton of tools in her arsenal, her charge shot can jab lock and it can kill. She can break shields with it too if she catches you. She can camp pretty well even without an endlag buff to her missiles. She has one of the best recovery games and that can't be argued with because she has good air speed, a stalling move in her down-b, a tether, and a decent enough standard recovery. It's probably why she is such crap to begin with, because they didn't know what in the hell to do with her, and she has way more than I mentioned, but now you look at Link and begin to notice that he isn't top tier and pretty much has the same or similar tools, and he sits around high tier now. I just want to see her moves get fixed up and her missiles get an endlag reduction with a speed reduction, the fact they sped it up was a nerf imo.

That Luigi nerf was fully deserved. His D Throw combos were disgusting. Still sad that nothing happened to Sheik.

Or Rosalina, who shouldn't be difficult to nerf. Luma should respawn at 30 to 40 seconds. I'm starting to worry they might not ever nerf Sheik, and if they do they're going to do it the scrubby way again by reducing her kill power more. Sonic still needs nerfs imo. I like how his dair is, but that more than compensates for all the kill power nerfs. Pikachu just needs a nerf on the back air with the pseudo-crouch ability being removed and more endlag on quick attack so you can't camp with it so hard, along with maybe a endlag nerf on thunderjolt, it's too easy to get away with spamming it once someone is offstage.

 

[JAZZ_]

Want to know what the problem with Samus is though? She's got a ton of tools in her arsenal, her charge shot can jab lock and it can kill. She can break shields with it too if she catches you. She can camp pretty well even without an endlag buff to her missiles. She has one of the best recovery games and that can't be argued with because she has good air speed, a stalling move in her down-b, a tether, and a decent enough standard recovery. It's probably why she is such crap to begin with, because they didn't know what in the hell to do with her, and she has way more than I mentioned, but now you look at Link and begin to notice that he isn't top tier and pretty much has the same or similar tools, and he sits around high tier now. I just want to see her moves get fixed up and her missiles get an endlag reduction with a speed reduction, the fact they sped it up was a nerf imo.


Or Rosalina, who shouldn't be difficult to nerf. Luma should respawn at 30 to 40 seconds. I'm starting to worry they might not ever nerf Sheik, and if they do they're going to do it the scrubby way again by reducing her kill power more. Sonic still needs nerfs imo. I like how his dair is, but that more than compensates for all the kill power nerfs. Pikachu just needs a nerf on the back air with the pseudo-crouch ability being removed and more endlag on quick attack so you can't camp with it so hard, along with maybe a endlag nerf on thunderjolt, it's too easy to get away with spamming it once someone is offstage.

Sadly most of these things are still true. However I do believe they didn't intend to patch any characters besides their customs and those they felt they couldn't completely ignore because of the massive change to shields. But the fact that she didn't get completely ignored like the previous patch makes us Samus mains rejoice. I'm expecting more changes once they actually put out a real balancing patch. This one I think was just experimental.

 

[MarioMeteor]

That Luigi nerf was fully deserved. His D Throw combos were disgusting. Still sad that nothing happened to Sheik.

Yet Zero Suit Samus was untouched.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Yet Zero Suit Samus was untouched.

She has a slow grab that's easiee to counter, and you can die for even trying (for example, Ranai vs Nairo). Luigi's didn't have that drawback.

 

[Travitoninja99]

Yet Zero Suit Samus was untouched.

ZSS has absolutely no reason to be touched, are you serious? She has great tools but is difficult to use and takes much skill to be great with, not to mention her primary combo and kill setup comes from a very high-risk/high-reward tether grab that if it whiffs, you're done for. Stop being salty already, what's done is done. It was a good move by them to nerf Luigi, so instead of being upset, why don't you learn better combos and kill setups with him? He's still a great character with good kill moves and still has a great combo game, so don't be too sad