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Young Link Social

Heracr055

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnjoKe2bwYQ&feature=youtu.be

This match makes me feel like Young Link will most likely struggle against heavy weights since his kill power is quite low and characters who outrange him with the ability to bypass his zoning (i.e potential Cloud)

:135:
Well...he can attempt to play keep away from the heavyweights, get them to a very high %, and go for nair (which looks pretty powerful). He can also attempt to create setups with Fire Arrows (since they put you in a brief helpless tumble) for 50/50s or even kill confirms at those high %s.
As for greater ranged foes who can bypass his zoning...I think we just need to wait to see if it's really that bad. I'm hoping that in this game dealing with Cloud will be easier than in the Wii U iteration.
Ofc if it is that bad for either of these scenarios I'll just use Ryu /Ken for those
 

The Merc

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Well...he can attempt to play keep away from the heavyweights, get them to a very high %, and go for nair (which looks pretty powerful). He can also attempt to create setups with Fire Arrows (since they put you in a brief helpless tumble) for 50/50s or even kill confirms at those high %s.
As for greater ranged foes who can bypass his zoning...I think we just need to wait to see if it's really that bad. I'm hoping that in this game dealing with Cloud will be easier than in the Wii U iteration.
Ofc if it is that bad for either of these scenarios I'll just use Ryu /Ken for those
That is true and at least it is something, but I think Young Link most like won't have many if any "free kills". I'm not so sure with the fire arrow follow ups, though that's just mostly cause the player didn't seem to attempt to try them.
This part is mostly just assumptions and theory crafting based on that one match, since it seemed more often then not when Ike got in on Young Link, even with the better frame data, Ike's range just shut down a lot of Young Link's options

:135:
 

Rizen

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It's always kind of painful to watch scrubs play but the footage is good. YL is looking really solid.
 

TheBuzzSaw

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I expect big things from all of you guys' Young Link play. We're gonna push his meta to the limits.
 

Rizen

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnjoKe2bwYQ&feature=youtu.be

This match makes me feel like Young Link will most likely struggle against heavy weights since his kill power is quite low and characters who outrange him with the ability to bypass his zoning (i.e potential Cloud)

:135:
I don't think it looked that bad. The main factor in YL losing was the Ike player was much better at landing final smashes. In game 3 YL died at a very low % to one, otherwise he might have won (this sentense sounds awkward :/).

IMO YL looks like a strong character. Killing might be one of his weaker traits but he isn't bad at it. YL's fast zoning and fall speed might make him even better than TL. Link's Nair, which he keeps, is a great move for everything except breaking chains. His range is less than swordies like Marth but still decent and he has Zair to zone with. Except that lack of range he looks like how SSB4 Link should have been buffed: with slightly faster frame data for CQC and better mobility while still maintaining his projectile zoning and combos. ZeRo has him as a high tier.
 

The Merc

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I don't think it looked that bad. The main factor in YL losing was the Ike player was much better at landing final smashes. In game 3 YL died at a very low % to one, otherwise he might have won (this sentense sounds awkward :/).

IMO YL looks like a strong character. Killing might be one of his weaker traits but he isn't bad at it. YL's fast zoning and fall speed might make him even better than TL. Link's Nair, which he keeps, is a great move for everything except breaking chains. His range is less than swordies like Marth but still decent and he has Zair to zone with. Except that lack of range he looks like how SSB4 Link should have been buffed: with slightly faster frame data for CQC and better mobility while still maintaining his projectile zoning and combos. ZeRo has him as a high tier.
Yeah Young link will definitely be strong but I feel like kill power will be one of his main weakness which may be further emphasis if he receives any nerfs after launch (which I'm worried he might get with all the bandwagoning that is going on). Outside of the Ike match you can see the Young Link player goes for FS smash a lot compared to other kill options, though I guess could just be to get a stupidly early kill.
I just don't want to jump the gun too much. I'd much rather wait until we have more the 20 minutes of decent footage before we judge a character

Though if Young Link still has Fire Spike, it immediately makes him SSS+ tier

:135:
 
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Tri Knight

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https://youtu.be/0rCdoZmjG1Q

Zero's got a VERY positive analysis on Young Link. Shows off a couple things that you may not have caught at first. I almost cant even imagine a high-top tier Link.
 
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Rizen

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IMO in terms of how they play, YL is the closest to SSB4 Link; closer than BotW Link. He has Zair to contend with bigger swords and being out-ranged was a problem in SSB4, especially since Marcina got buffed (salt). YL basically needs to play a mid range projectile/Zair zoning game then transition into combos. He also retains SSB4 Link's grappler traits in a tether grab and throw combos.
 

Batu

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IMO in terms of how they play, YL is the closest to SSB4 Link; closer than BotW Link. He has Zair to contend with bigger swords and being out-ranged was a problem in SSB4, especially since Marcina got buffed (salt). YL basically needs to play a mid range projectile/Zair zoning game then transition into combos. He also retains SSB4 Link's grappler traits in a tether grab and throw combos.
He doesn't have a real solid dthrow combo game like sm4sh link, but yeah is more like it.
 

The Merc

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Young Link's biggest strength imo is going to be the ability to switch between zoning and pseudo rush playstyle on the fly.

Link's is obviously his reach and power as well as his high set up potential and onstage edgeguard compared to Young Link

Toon Link's strengths though idk what they will be will be. Kind of makes me wish they gave him at least on different special. Maybe as Neutral B Deku Leaf; on the ground it gives him a wind hitbox similar to Palutena's smash attacks and in the air maybe gives him a limit guild that doesn't put him into freefall

:135:
 

Tri Knight

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Yeah, the way things look he'll likely be the best of the 3, with Toon Link being pretty close. Link may still have some of the same problems he had back in Smash 4 but at least he can only be better due to the overall movement buff, and his extreme edgeguarding capabilities.
 

Rizen

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I've watched several smash u videos and here are my predictions for YL:

He'll get nerfed because I can't have nice things (o_o). But seriously, he looks really good. YL has TL's small size and mobility but with Link's great fall speed and landing game. The reason TL consistently has been ranked above Link is he's a camping character who can actually camp. Link has pretty good walling but he gets out-buttoned by 90% of the cast and lacks to mobility to keep them away. YL pretty much got the best of both worlds.

His projectile game is great and this is even bigger in Ultimate where dodges have weeks of lag. He can not only control midrange spacing with 3 projectiles and Zair but he can combo off 2 of them (boomerang and bombs). Then he's got the speed to rush in and abuse frame trapping. Normal bombs are easily one of the best moves in SSB4 and this probably will carry over to Ultimate. They take 40 frames to pull (based on SSB4) but that's really not bad when you look at other projectiles; Luigi's fireballs have an FAF of f44. Then bombs only take 7ish frames to throw so they're great OoS and for zoning. YL being short doesn't have to worry about throwing them over small opponents like Link did. They don't hurt Young Link if they hit the opponent, like in SSB4, which leads to combos like Fair. They explode on their own so if an opponent catches one they're actually at a disadvantage, unlike with projectiles like banana and gyro. YL can time get ups from the ledge so bomb explosions cover him. He can pull an bomb after being launched to recover farther and get upwards momentum after being hit offstage. Bombs have a hurtbox so they'll push through or cancel with any 1 hit projectile like Samus' charge beam. You can Z drop and throw them 4 directions; throwing down is great to help landings. He can C4 bombs.
tl;dr bombs are amazing in neutral and disadvantage.

Unlike Link, YL has decent frame data from what I've heard so he can get opponents off him. His sword reach is good but not on par with tall sword characters but he has Zair and projectiles to mid range zone them. Based on SSB4 Link's aerials, Nair/Zair/Fair/Bair will all be exelent to land with. That's one of the things Link did well was land with good shield stun and minimal lag. Dair is a great move with a ton of active frames and it launches upward. Uair's meh but with YL's air speed he'll be able to follow opponents with its long lasting hitbubbles. YL's grab is a slow tether but he gets combos off it, from what I've seen. His ground game looks meh but it serves its purpose.

As for cons, a f12 tether grab is not good for threatening shields and risky. His reach is lacking and he'll get out-zoned at close range by characters like Marth. His frame data is good but still not par with characters like Fox who murder up close. YL's probably light and lacks Link sheer power. But all those things can be worked around.

I really don't see any MUs he'll lose more than slightly. Several top players have placed YL as top tier and I agree. YL has an answer for everything. He'll probably force 95% of the cast to approach yet have just fast enough frame data and Zair to space characters like Fox at close range. It's a matter of YL forcing opponents to play his game and he actually has the tools and stats to do it.
 

Tri Knight

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That's what I like about him. He seems to be the answer to every problem I had with Link in SSB4 and because of that, we might see a top/high tier Link! Even has a faster jab with a flurry!

After watching Link vids I've come to realize how troublesome his new bombs can be, despite the advantages and idk how I feel about that. I'm liking Young Link a lot more. Reminds me of the 64 and Melee days. Did we all notice his fighter entrance?
 

Rizen

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That's what I like about him. He seems to be the answer to every problem I had with Link in SSB4 and because of that, we might see a top/high tier Link! Even has a faster jab with a flurry!

After watching Link vids I've come to realize how troublesome his new bombs can be, despite the advantages and idk how I feel about that. I'm liking Young Link a lot more. Reminds me of the 64 and Melee days. Did we all notice his fighter entrance?
IMO remote bombs are a good move, replacing normal bombs which are an amazing move. RBs are kind of like a better Din's fire.

He comes down in blue light like in OoT.
 
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KenMeister

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Has anyone seen if Young Link has anything out of his grabs yet so far? I've been binging some footage and I haven't really seen it come up yet (or I'm just not paying enough attention, that to)
 

Rizen

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Has anyone seen if Young Link has anything out of his grabs yet so far? I've been binging some footage and I haven't really seen it come up yet (or I'm just not paying enough attention, that to)
In YL's trailer he's shown possibly comboing from up throw. IDK how true it is.
 

The Merc

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He has a few things at low percents on Uthrow and Dthrow but I think they stop working after about 50%

He does get combos off his Grounded Up B tho. And at kill percents too

:135:
 

All Hail Me

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I am excited for what may be the first good link in a while. I know EVERYONE says it about their favorite character and series, but it was a crime how bad Link was as a character, since he is Nintendo’s number 2 Fanchise. (Personally I think his games are better then Mario’s, but call me bias)
 
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Yeah ZeRo's video overhyped YL's mobility, although it's not bad. 60th for air speed and 36th for run speed. At least YL initial dash speed is 17th place.
I could see YL having really good air acceleration, though. That would make him seem faster than he is, just because he's at max speed for longer periods of time. He also doesn't have to deal with Toon Link's projectiles that slow his air movement. Basically, his speed could feel pretty good even if it's not amazing just because he can use it to it's fullest potential, a luxury some characters don't have.
 
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Tri Knight

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I'm surprised Toon Link is the Middle weight. I would have thought it to be Heavy Link, Middle Young Link, Feather Toon Link
 

Rizen

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I'm surprised Toon Link is the Middle weight. I would have thought it to be Heavy Link, Middle Young Link, Feather Toon Link
His head retains a lot of water.

+

=


Edit, actual YL stuff:
YL's fire arrows launch upward so he might be able to combo off them too. YL's bomb barely moves Greninja at 149% so they'll be good for Fair/Usmash combos for a huge % range.
 
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Tri Knight

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Nice! He'll likely have some powerful confirms similar to Smash 4 Toon Link then. It looked like it was low enough for an up-tilt or up-smash too so that could equal an instant kill depending on other factors...

Now I wonder if his running bomb throw will have extremely low lag like Link did in Smash4. Back in Smash 4, you could literally run, bomb throw, and instantly attack right after.

Also, on another note, now I'm reminded that Adult Link lost that bomb confirm with remote bombs. His set up game will be serious... good or bad. He's gonna be tough to use either way though, I think.
 

The Merc

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Edit, actual YL stuff:
YL's fire arrows launch upward so he might be able to combo off them too. YL's bomb barely moves Greninja at 149% so they'll be good for Fair/Usmash combos for a huge % range.
Yep pretty much near the same angle as Melee

Yeah all his projectiles send at a upwards angle and can basically combo off them at most percents.
Also close range boomerang can do up to 15.8% damage and bombs do about 11% :)

Here is a document with all damage values and frame data for any interested

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ed7zDCj029vpQnhjNLx-IfxR6ZpVq6a3ME4NlVDpTEY/edit

:135:
 

timidshadow

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I'm incredibly excited to see Young Link return to Smash after so long. I was a little disappointed not to have the traditional adult Link which I mained for SmashU but I think YL will be an acceptable replacement for my main this time around.
 

Tri Knight

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The only thing I may have to get used to is the weight. Hes likely gonna be killed much sooner from heavy attacks than Link ever did. Other than that, hes pretty much a better version of pre-ultimate Link.
 

Rizen

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@ World of Light:
:4kirby:"Yay papa Sakurai loves me best!"

It's fun. I like the RPG skill tree and spirit system. Too bad there aren't more cutscenes like Subspace.

Edit, I unlocked YL and played vs lv9 Pac Man for a while. He's good but balanced by being light and weak. SHing in this game is hard; you have to barely tap jump. It looks like YL will primarily use Usmash from bomb hits, not Fair except at very high %s. At low %s Fsmash/Ftilt/DA work. Dthrow might combo but it's hard to tell vs CPUs. I think once I tighten my combos boomerang and arrows might go into Fair. ATM I'm having trouble getting the proper distance and attacks.
What I took away from YL is he has good tools but needs tight execution due to small attacks yet good mobility. You do something right and it works well but if you're a little off you wiff. Knowing what %s to use each followup will be important to learn.

He's great at racking up damage; I played lame and was able to kill Pac Man 3 times before he caught and took me down. Like Link, YL needs to be using his projectiles to create openings. His disadvantage state is very good with bombs to cover landings, boomerang for recoveries, a tether, extremely low landing lag and small size. This is all nice because he'll need to dish out a lot more damage than he takes.

His prior mentioned downsides are being a featherweight at 88, 16 units less than Link, and killing late. If I couldn't land a smash or Dair Pac lived to around 180, but my combos were probably off. It's easy to chip away at an opponent but not to land killing blows. Grab is slow but the range is decent, good for pivots. YL doesn't have the best frame data and will get out-buttoned up close. He'll have to work hard for his victories but has the tools and mobility to do it with decent frame data. I expect the type of character who gave Toon Link trouble, with good reach and mobility like Cloud, Mewtwo and Marth, might end up being his worst MUs.

All things considered, YL will be lower high tier or the top of mid tier at worst, imo.
 
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Disfunkshunal

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Yeah, I wonder if it's the new lowered jump squat. I don't remember what my sm4sh main's was but I'm not used to 3 frames at all.
 
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