• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

you don't need unnecessary crap

D

Deleted member

Guest
most people use the cookie cutter team that looks something like this:

-spiker
-starter
-phazer
-rapid spin niglet
-physical wall
-special wall
-physical attacker
-special attacker
-cleric

and then they cram mutiple jobs onto one poke, so every team has gyarados blissey skarmory bronzong etc.

I'm going to cure you all of this ******** mentality right now. You don't need half this ****. Let's review each job.

stuff you need:

-starter, duh. You have to start with someone.
-attacker of either variety. You need to be able to kill stuff. In general, wall teams get stomped by simple tricks like CM + sub or Taunt. You might put this stuff on your attackers to prevent getting walled.

stuff you don't need:
-rapid spinner

Really, rapid spin is another way of giving your opponent a free turn. Aside from preventing menial amounts of damage. It's simply easier to use taunt or a stat booster for your advantage. I suppose a fair analogy is comparing Taunt to a condom and Rapid Spin to an abortion at the free clinic in the Philadelphia ghetto, and switching to said Rapid Spinner is like taking a taxi to said clinic with an asian driver that can't speak English.

"Well, screw you Umbreon, then I can't make safe switches!"

Fallacy. There is no such thing as a safe switch. Switching is also a way of giving your opponent a free turn, something that is generally the worst thing you can do in battle. This means that even if you switch correctly and safetly, you are still at an immediate disadvantage simply for losing your turn. In fact, switching may very well be the most dangerous thing you can do in pokemon.

-cleric

Heal Bell and Aromatherapy are simply not good. They are just another way of wasting a turn. Statistically speaking, it's not in your benefit to keep it for situational purposes in the first place. Even Wish is limited to an extent, because when it says "_____ made a wish!" it really means " HIT ME WITH THE HARDEST **** YOU GOT"

-spiker

while no one will deny that having spikes on the field is a good thing, very often it means you can be doing something more productive. Many people have turned to Stealth Rock, which works just fine without taking 3 turns. SR is also nice because it encourages Earthquake spammy teams.

**** that is useful to an extent:

-walls

being able to take hits is nice, however, walling just special or physical attacks will leave you switching often,. which is generally bad. It is usually in your benefit to use pokemon that can wall both physical and special attacks effectively. These are few in number however.

-phazer

it's useful to be able to eliminate stat effects, but you won't always find yourself using them. If you choose to use a phazer, use it with care, or just tag the phaze move onto a different set with an open spot. This will maximize your effeciency overall.

to everyone who says you need more walls or supporters or attackers or whatever, thats a bad mentality. it is the player who decides whether his team relies on defense, offense, or a mix with supports.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Im confused, rapid spinners are important. Not neccesarily spikers, but teams that use SR, TS, and spikes are hard to defeat if u dont have a rapid spinner. However, i dont know much about competative pokemon, so meh :/
 

TombStone

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
260
stuff you don't need:
-rapid spinner

Really, rapid spin is another way of giving your opponent a free turn. Aside from preventing menial amounts of damage. It's simply easier to use taunt or a stat booster for your advantage. I suppose a fair analogy is comparing Taunt to a condom and Rapid Spin to an abortion at the free clinic in the Philadelphia ghetto, and switching to said Rapid Spinner is like taking a taxi to said clinic with an asian driver that can't speak English.
LMAO at that analogy. Thing is, not every pokemon can learn Taunt. But I see what you meant when you said it was really an amazing move. Cripples walls, ruins set-ups, and nullifies supporters. I should start using that move more.

I'd think that your recommendation for Phazers would apply to rapid spinners as well: just put it in the most appropriate empty move slot.

As for spikers/SRusers, I don't think it's about causing as much damage as possible. It just messes up Focus Sashes and makes people a little more conservative when it comes to switching. But considering the prevalence of the Flying type, Stealth Rocks can be a pretty nasty thing to deal with.

Very nice post, I think it will help a lot. Thanks.
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,964
without rapid spinners, a teams ability to stall is greatly hindered

also without SR, a team's ability to stall is hindered


while a spiker is not as important as a RS, both still play a huge roll

also, a spinner is very important becuase most of the top pokes are weak to SR, the ones that aren't, mostly aren't even sweepers

pretty much why every team carries starmie, tentacruel, donphan, claydol, or forretress nowadays, to remove SR and toxic spikes
 

Wii4Mii 99

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
1,859
without rapid spinners, a teams ability to stall is greatly hindered

also without SR, a team's ability to stall is hindered


while a spiker is not as important as a RS, both still play a huge roll

also, a spinner is very important becuase most of the top pokes are weak to SR, the ones that aren't, mostly aren't even sweepers

pretty much why every team carries starmie, tentacruel, donphan, claydol, or forretress nowadays, to remove SR and toxic spikes
You make things sound like teams need to be able to stall in DP...

I ultimately agree. I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's not good enough to have the standard cookie cutter team with 3 sweepers, 2 walls and 1 support etc. and have each Pokemon play a particular role and rely on itself to harm the opponent. There is no way your 6 Pokemon with 24 moves will be able to counter or somehow deal with all those offensive threats once they start getting the ball rolling while you try to switch in a wall etc. Instead, it is best that your team cooperates to reach a certain goal while tampering with your opponent here and there to slow their efforts down. Seriously, all a team needs is Pokemon working together to execute a central goal while messing with the opponent and still being able to function well if something gets out of hand.

Why? This isn't Advanced, people. Offensive Pokemon, thanks to the DP attack split and Choice Band / Specs, can get past Skarmory and Blissey, the "uber" walls or whatever. Even with the improvements of older Pokemon, as well as the addition of new Pokemon, the offensive metagame is still dominate to the defensive (for the most part).

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
without rapid spinners, a teams ability to stall is greatly hindered

also without SR, a team's ability to stall is hindered


while a spiker is not as important as a RS, both still play a huge roll

also, a spinner is very important becuase most of the top pokes are weak to SR, the ones that aren't, mostly aren't even sweepers

pretty much why every team carries starmie, tentacruel, donphan, claydol, or forretress nowadays, to remove SR and toxic spikes
as long as you carry the mentality that you NEED something, the sooner you screw yourself over. So what happens when you don't use starmie claydol donphan forretress? You get another slot on your team for a Garchomp.

A spinner is only important if you're unwilling to take menial amounts of damage, in which case, using SR will cost you at least 1 free turn. Switching to a poke for RS makes it 2 turns.

This is the point of my argument. You don't need this crap. You can do just fine or better off without it. If you need a rapid spinner that badly, you probably switch too much anyway, which is another really fast way to lose.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
:yoshi: I disagree. What a load of bull.

Max, if people stop going standard, beating people isn't a joke anymore. What's wrong with you?

It's funny how basically all of the stuff mentioned in the first post is used by stalling teams and stalling teams lose. Badly. People are playing Pokémon like they play Melee, and that's why everyone's losing and doesn't know why, LOL!

My two cents?

Spikes + Stealth Rock: The instant I see a spiker, I switch to the meanest, nastiest mother****er on my team and start Dragon Dancing. You would think people would try to stop your dancing, but it amuses to me to ABSOLUTELY NO END how many people will spike, toxic spike, stealth rock all while someone is Sub+CMing and then WONDER how the F*CK they got ***** six ways from Sunday. GG.

Heal Bell/Aromatherapy + Wish: LOL next

Medicore walls: Don't use them unless they hit significant 4x weaks or have Roar/Whirlwind. Yes, Bronzong IS useless.

Everything else: I can't type anymore. Reading that opening post made me so mad and happy inside at the same time. It reminds me of the amazingly deluded state of Pokémon play these days. Max, we're playing PBR over the weekend.
 

Wii4Mii 99

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
1,859
:yoshi: I disagree. What a load of bull.

Max, if people stop going standard, beating people isn't a joke anymore. What's wrong with you?

It's funny how basically all of the stuff mentioned in the first post is used by stalling teams and stalling teams lose. Badly. People are playing Pokémon like they play Melee, and that's why everyone's losing and doesn't know why, LOL!

My two cents?

Spikes + Stealth Rock: The instant I see a spiker, I switch to the meanest, nastiest mother****er on my team and start Dragon Dancing. You would think people would try to stop your dancing, but it amuses to me to ABSOLUTELY NO END how many people will spike, toxic spike, stealth rock all while someone is Sub+CMing and then WONDER how the F*CK they got ***** six ways from Sunday. GG.

Heal Bell/Aromatherapy + Wish: LOL next

Medicore walls: Don't use them unless they hit significant 4x weaks or have Roar/Whirlwind. Yes, Bronzong IS useless.

Everything else: I can't type anymore. Reading that opening post made me so mad and happy inside at the same time. It reminds me of the amazingly deluded state of Pokémon play these days. Max, we're playing PBR over the weekend.
So his name is Max, huh?

Until wii meet again,
Wii4Mii 99
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
****, I think it's essay time...Let me just add by saying this.

The goal of Pokemon is to faint your opponent's 6 Pokemon. Basically Mow is saying you don't need to take detours in reaching this goal.
 

Hippochinfat

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
686
Rapid spinner are extremely helpful if you have a big rock weakness or you hate stuff like spikes and stealth rock. Phazers stop you from getting destroyed by a baton pass team. Aromatherapy is awesome. But when you said physical walls and special walls are only useful to an extent...that just showed how stupid you are. Spinners, phazers, spikers, clerics are all very nice to have but not essential to a good team but walls are. WTF you said you need calm mind+sub or taunt. You don't need it. Taunt is a great move but definetly not essential.

Stop acting like you actually know stuff about the metagame and that you're good you idiot. Use proper grammar to.
 

Shiri

Smash Chump
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
3,804
Rapid spinner are extremely helpful if you have a big rock weakness or you hate stuff like spikes and stealth rock. Phazers stop you from getting destroyed by a baton pass team. Aromatherapy is awesome. But when you said physical walls and special walls are only useful to an extent...that just showed how stupid you are. Spinners, phazers, spikers, clerics are all very nice to have but not essential to a good team but walls are. WTF you said you need calm mind+sub or taunt. You don't need it. Taunt is a great move but definetly not essential.

Stop acting like you actually know stuff about the metagame and that you're good you idiot. Use proper grammar to.
:yoshi: Allow me to retort.

If you like Rapid Spin because you have a big spike/rock weakness, you also like to give Gengar free switch-ins and you probably have too many flying/ice/fire types, which gets you gayed in one on one matchups, anyway.

Wanna know a secret to beating Baton Pass? Explode. Or just hit them. Focus Punch, actually.

Here's a question about walls for you. If I bring in a heavy hitter and you bring in a wall and start walling me, good for you. Sure, you can't really hit me back, but you're walling me. Alright. Now. What happens when I start Swords Dancing?

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but Taunt is one of the best moves in the game. >_> I'd go so far as to call it broken simply because it debilitates so many Pokémon right off the bat.

I'm not saying all the support stuff is bad (well, I am, but I'm trying not to make too many waves), but some teams focus so much on it that they can't bring out their better fighting potential. SWF Poké Center is full of bright kids, but some of you guys are holding yourselves back, LOL.

And no, Burnstocks, I don't play pkmn since I'm bad at it, but if you wanna battle for fun someday, just shoot me a PM. I demand Yoshi dittos afterwards. ^_^
 

Hippochinfat

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
686
:yoshi: Allow me to retort.

If you like Rapid Spin because you have a big spike/rock weakness, you also like to give Gengar free switch-ins and you probably have too many flying/ice/fire types, which gets you gayed in one on one matchups, anyway.

Wanna know a secret to beating Baton Pass? Explode. Or just hit them. Focus Punch, actually.

Here's a question about walls for you. If I bring in a heavy hitter and you bring in a wall and start walling me, good for you. Sure, you can't really hit me back, but you're walling me. Alright. Now. What happens when I start Swords Dancing?

Also, I'm not sure if you're aware, but Taunt is one of the best moves in the game. >_> I'd go so far as to call it broken simply because it debilitates so many Pokémon right off the bat.

I'm not saying all the support stuff is bad (well, I am, but I'm trying not to make too many waves), but some teams focus so much on it that they can't bring out their better fighting potential. SWF Poké Center is full of bright kids, but some of you guys are holding yourselves back, LOL.

And no, Burnstocks, I don't play pkmn since I'm bad at it, but if you wanna battle for fun someday, just shoot me a PM. I demand Yoshi dittos afterwards. ^_^

Rapid spin is blocked by ghosts, but that does not make it bad. If they have a sub up or have gotten alot of defence boosts exploding won't ruin a baton pass chain. A good wall will either damage you or cripple you. For example a bronzong comes in on a garchomp. Garchomp starts swords dancing but bronzong puts him to sleep then does his thing switches to a sweeper. Blissey will paralyze you and hit you with seismec toss or ice beam. If you sword dance skarmory will just phaze you. Then theres stuff like donphan vs. Garchomp. Donphan won't cripple him but will do alot of damage with ice shard.

At least you admit your bad at Pokemon.

Again, I know taunt is a great move but it is NOT essential like the idiot who wrote this thread said it was.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Yes... Pokemon isn't about strategy, it's about overwhelming force.
holy **** he gets it! Yes, the strategy in pokemon is building the team, not doing unnecessary switches and using useless pokemon! someone put the damage formula on this man's diploma.

Welcome to Diamond/Pearl.

edit: someday people will realize that switching is the same thing as using Splash but without the humor value.
 

Coen

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
2,221
Location
Netherlands
Wow, great essay.

Actually I had been thinking about the usefulness of Rapid spinners (whether they are worth it) before you made this topic Mow, and I came to a same kind of conclusion.

But about switching: why do you think switching is equal to doing nothing? I don't really get it. Roserade vs Swampert. Swampert knows that if it stays in it's gonna die.........????
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I don't use swampert, actually I refuse to play swampert. I play sandstorm teams and I still refuse to use him. His stats and typing suggest he's good, but when he hits the field for a 6 on 6, he's just mediocre. 3 vs 3 is different, but yeah for standard play I refuse to use him. In my I need a 6th pokemon thing down the page, one of my demands is that it not be swampert >_>

Let's say I have something guaranteed to die. Unless it's a pokemon at full health, I will generally allow that pokemon to get knocked out in favor of bringing out a counter and taking 2 back. I actually design my teams to do this.
 

TombStone

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
260
Rapid spin is blocked by ghosts, but that does not make it bad. If they have a sub up or have gotten alot of defence boosts exploding won't ruin a baton pass chain. A good wall will either damage you or cripple you. For example a bronzong comes in on a garchomp. Garchomp starts swords dancing but bronzong puts him to sleep then does his thing switches to a sweeper. Blissey will paralyze you and hit you with seismec toss or ice beam. If you sword dance skarmory will just phaze you. Then theres stuff like donphan vs. Garchomp. Donphan won't cripple him but will do alot of damage with ice shard.

At least you admit your bad at Pokemon.

Again, I know taunt is a great move but it is NOT essential like the idiot who wrote this thread said it was.
In the first part of your argument, you say a good wall will cripple a sweeper via hypnosis, thunder wave, whatever. Guess what taunt allows the sweeper to do? Cripple the wall!

At least you admit you're bad at Pokemon.
Was that sassy-*** retort really necessary? And if you're going to get on Mow's case for improper grammar, revise your own posts please. I seriously doubt he was trying with his earlier posts. Plus, content > grammar, even my grammar-nazi *** will admit that.

I actually like some of the things you're trying to point out, just please stop calling everyone with a different opinion on the matter an idiot. It's really starting to piss me off.
 

Hippochinfat

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
686
Screw this. The guy who wrote this thread is just doesn't know anything about the metagame.

A team of 6 sweepers will fail. You'll need walls.


Lets say I have a team with Tyranitar, Porygon-z, Starmie, Lucario, Electivire and Weavile. Anything faster then those that can take them out ( like Scarfcross) will destroy the entire team.

Yea I know taunt is a great move Tombstone it's just not essential. Sorry for calling people an idiot I've been angry since my cat died but yeah that doesn't relate to this to much.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Hippochinfat- Stop posting at the SWF Pokecenter. Your posts are ignorant and your arguments are even worse. And your excuse.... seriously, what does a cat have to do with anything? Everytime I read one of your posts, I lose 20 IQ points and a piece of my sanity. If you want my advice, go to smogon for a couple days so you can learn who does what, get flamed there a couple of times(most likely), and learn something about the metagame. Seriously.

I'm usually nice over the internet, but this is serious: Go away!

Now to stay on topic, I a long time ago tried to make a team like Umbreonmow brought up: where I use the (hopefully) better starter, and I stay in and when(if?) it gets countered, I have something else to take its place after it dies that would counter his counter.

It's hard to explain. It came to me in a dream, I believe.....
 

9Kplus1

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,518
Location
Smogon (PM FC: 4256-7740-0627)
Nice analysis Umbreon but-

Spinners are sometimes important whenever you want to protect one of your sweepers from Stealth Rock/Spikes/Toxic Spikes. If you say use Taunt, then, wouldn't that mean 2/3 of your team has Taunt? There are only 3 good Taunters I've seen so far-

Gyarados
Honchkrow
Heatran

The amount of Taunters in order to prevent SR/SKS/TSKS you'll need is at least 3. Now, why do that when you can kill 2 birds with one Stone Plate?

Most Spinners have a secondary function as well. Starmie for example can be both a sweeper and a spinner. Claydol can be a Trick Roomer . Foretress can do what it does best- setup and wall and spin.

The rest, I can firmly agree with.

@SS118- Ignore him, he's a ******* not suited for the world, in fact, EVERYONE ignore Hippochinfat.
 

mood4food77

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,964
if hippo didn't use that last line, than his post would've been fine

just a fact to point out

almost all of hte top 25 players (something like 18 out of them) use stall teams

gyarados is the most common lead, and most likely it's bulkydos

bronzong is the 10th most used poke, he can't be useless, but he's also the 4th most common wall seen

a team of sweepers ultimately fail, they can't last, they do damage, and have to switch out when they see something threatening

for example, player one has garchomp out while player 2 has hippowdon out, now, garchomp must switch because he knows for a fact hippowdon will kill him before chomp kills hippo, with all the scenarios out, SR could be up, he could roar away a counter, dealing major damage to your team, he can do some damage to the poke your sending in, you just don't know, and if you're running 6 sweepers, most likely, they're frail (metagross is the only one who really can last out there, but he's afraid of donphan)

like you say some of those things are unimportant

but when you get 6-0'd by someone who has SR up or someone who has a smeargle that BPs belly drums to agilicross, then you realize how important some of those jobs are
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
people please stop using smogon as a reference, anyone without a custom title generally sucks and using all of smogon is a bad point of reference. Besides, it's not as if I haven't played at all and decided to post some random BS online.

Every time I see a bronzong, I party. I switch into it and sub. Bronzong is NOT GOOD. Sure, he can do stuff. So what? He's harmless and set-up fodder. People realized this stuff in advance and played claydol less.

you only need 1 taunt to bone the other team. which is why gyarados is so good, he can dragondance too.

salamence needs taunt.
 

fluffy

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
2,037
Location
NJ/NY
edit: someday people will realize that switching is the same thing as using Splash but without the humor value.
You're absolutely right! Predicting an electric move and switching in Electivire so it gets hit by an electric attack that activates Motor Drive is the same as using splash. Switching Blissey out for a Gengar so that it doesn't get hit by a physical attack is the same thing as using splash too.

Every time I see a bronzong, I party. I switch into it and sub.
: /
you only need 1 taunt to bone the other team. which is why gyarados is so good, he can dragondance too.
and ttar
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I said I don't switch because it's risky. Switching into a spiker isn't risky in any way. I'll make sure to spoonfeed the obvious details next time.

I know all about ttar and gyarados, I use both. On the same team.
 

fluffy

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
2,037
Location
NJ/NY
It just sounds like you're saying that switching is a bad thing in your 1st post.
There is no such thing as a safe switch. Switching is also a way of giving your opponent a free turn, something that is generally the worst thing you can do in battle. This means that even if you switch correctly and safetly, you are still at an immediate disadvantage simply for losing your turn.
I don't know if you were serious or not but that's just not right. I switch all the time. It can play mindgames. The only bad time to switch is when you're forced to by your opponent's whirldwind with spikes/rocks on the floor.
 

Wolfblade

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,251
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Switching is not useless. It can sometimes be the only way to defeat your opponent in certain situations.

Example from one of my battles:

DDing Dragonite took out one of my pokes.

I send out Salemance and cut his attack.

Well with his high speed and STILL high attack... and Salemance's garbage defences, I was positive I wouldn't survive his F*cking dragon rush so I switched into Scizor.

Took damage but not all that much.

Then (knowing he'd pull a fire fang on me) I switched back into Salemance, cutting his attack again and now recieving less damage.

He attacks with dragon rush, hits, and almost KO's me.

I dragon claw and KO him.

With prediction, switching can save yer arse. Electivire was already mentioned by getting a speed boost.

Milotic can switch into potential Willow Wisps and T-waves and recieve a defensive boost, thus making it a double wall and a decent attacker as well.

Swellow/ Heracross/ Ursaring switch into Wisps/ T-waves/ Toxics (well not Swellow into t-wave cause then it would suck) to get an attack boost.

Type advantage I don't need to go through but yeah. Switching is good... long as you don't do it like a ******.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Nice post, Wolfblade, but allow me to disagree.

Obviously, if your relying on switches, your going to get set up on. In my opinion, every time I see a skarmory, I think "bring in Tranitar/ Gyarados/ anything with decent defenses/ Intimidate with Taunt and set up moves."

Taunt is a beast. I'm going to make a whole team with it and see how it does. lol

Back to the point, what if the predicted Electric move never happened? What if they Subbed, SDed, NPed, w/e? What if they are a Bpasser and that Nasty Plot Ambipom is also coupled with a Focus Sash with Agility, too? You had brought in Scarfcross, and he speeds you after the agility and BPs off to a Specsmence using Dragon Pulse, and you left the \/\/hore, Blissey, back at home.

You then wonder why you lost.

The only time I ever SR is if the opponent has NO way of taking out my pokemon in the next two turns, unless they switch to something. Either way, I have tyhe advantage, cause he switched, and I have a SR out.

In the opposite case, lets pretend that SR caused the opponent, especially in Ubers, to get out a powerful sweeper: Deoxys-A, for example? The weakest defensive set pokemon in the game: dead if you hadn't gone for he set up. Of course, then Focus Sash plays further into it, seeing if he has one your screwed, but if you have one and they don't you win.

That's why I like Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash with Taunt + SR. It stops others from setting up while it does.

Edit:
people please stop using smogon as a reference, anyone without a custom title generally sucks and using all of smogon is a bad point of reference.
I'm assuming this is for me cause I told Hippo-whatever his name is to **** off and go there to learn something. Smogon does suck, yes, but so does this guy, so I thought they could go hand-in-hand.
 

Wolfblade

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,251
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Nice post, Wolfblade, but allow me to disagree.

Obviously, if your relying on switches, your going to get set up on. In my opinion, every time I see a skarmory, I think "bring in Tranitar/ Gyarados/ anything with decent defenses/ Intimidate with Taunt and set up moves."

Taunt is a beast. I'm going to make a whole team with it and see how it does. lol

Back to the point, what if the predicted Electric move never happened? What if they Subbed, SDed, NPed, w/e? What if they are a Bpasser and that Nasty Plot Ambipom is also coupled with a Focus Sash with Agility, too? You had brought in Scarfcross, and he speeds you after the agility and BPs off to a Specsmence using Dragon Pulse, and you left the \/\/hore, Blissey, back at home.

You then wonder why you lost.

The only time I ever SR is if the opponent has NO way of taking out my pokemon in the next two turns, unless they switch to something. Either way, I have tyhe advantage, cause he switched, and I have a SR out.

In the opposite case, lets pretend that SR caused the opponent, especially in Ubers, to get out a powerful sweeper: Deoxys-A, for example? The weakest defensive set pokemon in the game: dead if you hadn't gone for he set up. Of course, then Focus Sash plays further into it, seeing if he has one your screwed, but if you have one and they don't you win.

That's why I like Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash with Taunt + SR. It stops others from setting up while it does.

Oh I agree, prediction plays a big role in it as well as items. Switching or not switching is a toss up. Simply gotta figure out what yer opponent is going to do. Obviously if they see a switch comming then it will probably be bad for you, but thats where strategy comes in.

I've had instances where I've decided to keep out my pokes cause I was almost sure they'd predict a switch. Example was with an electric poke and Swampert. Normally you would recall the elec simply cause it will be dead via earthquake. He assumed that and in turn used avalanche (predicting a switch into Salemance to avoid earthquake and cut his attack I guess)... he had already seen Salemance earlier in the match so thats why I guess that.

Because of this I managed to get 2 good hits on his Swampert and take it out.

Thats one scenerio. Switching can help you, but you have to be a step ahead of yer opponent. Prediction is key to its success.

I've predicted my fair share of switches with Electivire. Poor guy thought he was gonna get a speed boost rather than a shadow ball in the face.:laugh:

So yeah, again, I agree it can be both bad and good, but I'm leaning more good assuming you have decent prediction skills.

Good argument btw.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
For arguments sake, I believe that the topic is "you don't need unnecessary crap", not "you don't need unnecessary predictions". This topic is made more along the lines of team building BEFORE you go into the battle, not what you do in it(aside from switching).
 

Wolfblade

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
1,251
Location
Toronto, Ontario
True, I just went along with the switching argument that popped up is all. Point taken.

To be fair and moving along with the first post a lil more, I personally don't use rapid spin/ heal bell on my team... thought I have considered a rapid spinner, I instead save that slot of a heavy hitter or a wall.
 

JesiahTEG

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
4,126
Location
Rochester, NY
Alright, lemme clear something up.

A while ago my friend explained to me that the reason 95% of battlers suck, and 5% are amazing, is because the 5% that are really really good play a different metagame completely. Almost everyone besides the 5% of battlers that are amazing really aren't that good, and wouldn't survive in a true, high level play environment. Have any of you played any good players in a WiFi match? You'll realize firsthand that Mow is correct. Ok I'll give you an example.

I realized that the standard metagame, commonly seen on Shoddy Battle is nothing more than the following.

Turn 1-Set up SR
Opponent Switches, brings in Spinner
Opponent switches, brings in Ghost.
Opponent switches, brings in counter.
Opponent switches brings in counter.
Etc.

The metagame in which almost everyone plays is so limited I can't even begin to explain. Also, every good player knows that stall teams are not the best teams possible. I'll post the results of a tournament I'm hosting with actual good players attending, and I'll post their teams also. You guys will be really surprised, but yeah the point of this post is that: A)Mow is right, switching really will screw you, and B) only a handful of people here really know what they are talking about.
 
Top Bottom