You don't know and nor do I - there, I said it.

[Reyairia]

It was an opinion. I'm sure if you use logic, you could quite easily proove me wrong. But I'm still to see you do that.

And just for that whole second part, do you really think Sakurai thought:

"Hrm, maybe I should make a poll to see which Characters the fans would like in Brawl most."

*Makes Poll*

*A while later*

"Lawl! OMFG! Liek, they nubbs fought i wud, liek, actually look at teh poll! LOLOLOL!"

I don't. I'm not sure if that would fall under opinions, or common sense..

-sigh- Last thing.
Sakurai could have done it just to get a general idea, while being aware that it is not representative of the population and so on.
And you need to learn the difference between an opinion and a fact, because what you said was a false statement and not an opinion.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

-sigh- Last thing.
Sakurai could have done it just to get a general idea, while being aware that it is not representative of the population and so on.
And you need to learn the difference between an opinion and a fact, because what you said was a false statement and not an opinion.

No, it could be my opinion for all you know.

In my opinion, the Moon is made of cheese. The Moon is clearly made of 100% cheese, that is true.

The thing that happens to be opposite of true, is false.

But my opinion cannot be false, as it's my opinion. So it therefore, must be true, unless proven wrong.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Sakurai could have done it just to get a general idea, while being aware that it is not representative of the population and so on.

I agree.

And you need to learn the difference between an opinion and a fact, because what you said was a false statement and not an opinion.

He knows... I've said this before and I'll say it again (I think you know this too Rey lol):

I have a firm belief that some opinions can be wrong, and some opinions can be stupid.

(in relativity and context, and perspective)

So... kill me? lol

 

[CodeBlack]

By stating this:



You're just doing exactly what you are criticizing lol

I'm criticizing something? And I'm doing it?

If I'm being a hypocrit, elaborate please.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

It's pretty evident lol

 

[CodeBlack]

It's pretty evident lol

Humor me.

Generally if you accuse people of something, and give no reason why you did so, your accusation goes unheeded. That or you end up sounding like a jerk. Maybe both.

 

[the grim lizard]

*slaps wrist*

Yeah, OK interesting idea...but I still think people exaggerate too much. Sakurai's characters selections aren't completely haphazard like we make them to be.

Allow me to clarify the opinion/fact thing:

"X character would make a good addition to Brawl." >> opinion
"X character will make it in because of _________" >> either a true or false statement (not opinion)

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Well, *sounding* like a jerk is a personal preference of mine, just fyi. I thought it was evident enough, but for the sake of making you look bad:

Your statement:

Wow, I've never seen such a large example of a good idea being completely derailed the way this thread was.

Criticizes people derailing the thread. You move on to talk about:

You, Rayairia, had a good idea, a break from all the other argumentatiev threads out there. Inevitably, others came and turned this thread into those other threads. It's recuperating, but it's slow.

Which was not related to what the thread asked for, and derailed the the thread further - if slightly.

And then you even stated that you are aware of not helping the issue but are out of ideas.

So your critcism (derailing the thread), added to the action (derailing) you were criticizing.

However it's nothing to worry about, anyway. We're all doing it lol

 

[Circus]

Ugh. . . *jumps into topic, knowing he'll regret it later*

No, it could be my opinion for all you know.

In my opinion, the Moon is made of cheese. The Moon is clearly made of 100% cheese, that is true.

The thing that happens to be opposite of true, is false.

But my opinion cannot be false, as it's my opinion. So it therefore, must be true, unless proven wrong.

But the Moon is not made of cheese. It is fact, therefor no one can be of the opinion that the moon is made of cheese. If someone think it's made of cheese, that is not their opinion. That's just them being ignorant. If someone truly believes the moon is made of cheese, it is because they were either misinformed or not informed at all. When they say "I think the moon is made of cheese," they are not stating an opinion. They are stating something that is incorrect that they were lead to believe (probably due to a Tom & Jerry cartoon or something).

If I say "2+2=7", I am not stating an opinion. I'm stating something that is incorrect that I do not realize is incorrect yet. I'm also, unintentionally, telling you that I'm terrible at math.

The moon being made of cheese is known to be false. The idea that all females are kleptomaniacs is also known to be false based on the fact that we have SEEN girls who are perfectly capable of squashing the urge to nab things that do not belong to them. These "opinions" are not opinions specifically BECAUSE they ARE proven to be wrong.

If I can prove your opinion wrong, it's not an opinion. It's ignorance (I'm not calling you ignorant, this is just hypothetical).

 

[CodeBlack]

Well, *sounding* like a jerk is a personal preference of mine, just fyi. I thought it was evident enough, but for the sake of making you look bad:

Your statement:



Criticizes people derailing the thread. You move on to talk about:



Which was not related to what the thread asked for, and derailed the the thread further - if slightly.

And then you even stated that you are aware of not helping the issue but are out of ideas.

So your critcism (derailing the thread), added to the action (derailing) you were criticizing.

However it's nothing to worry about, anyway. We're all doing it lol

I noticed that. In the last paragraph in my post I apologized about it, but you're right on that, I did.

 

[the grim lizard]

*sigh* I thought I already clarified this. Anyway...

If I can prove your opinion wrong, it's not an opinion. It's ignorance (I'm not calling you ignorant, this is just hypothetical).

That's true, but...it's not limited to that. Like, it could still be a matter of fact (being wrong or right), and I might still not be able to prove you wrong. So, if you can prove it wrong, it's not opinion, but if you can't prove me wrong, it's not necessarily opinion either.

Perhaps the better way of looking at it is if there is truly a real answer out there somewhere. If there is, it's fact. If not, it's opinion.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Indeed.

So that therefore proves my point.

Though I can't recall what it was at this moment..

I'm so tired, I shall return soon, after some well needed rest.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

... What IS, "real"?

 

[Circus]

*sigh* I thought I already clarified this. Anyway...



That's true, but...it's not limited to that. Like, it could still be a matter of fact (being wrong or right), and I might still not be able to prove you wrong. So, if you can prove it wrong, it's not opinion, but if you can't prove me wrong, it's not necessarily opinion either.

Perhaps the better way of looking at it is if there is truly a real answer out there somewhere. If there is, it's fact. If not, it's opinion.

I'll agree to that.

Indeed.

So that therefore proves my point.

Though I can't recall what it was at this moment..

I'm so tired, I shall return soon, after some well needed rest.

I don't think it does. Correct me if I'm wrong but you point seemed to be that an opinion can be proven wrong. But going by what Grim said, it can't be. Because if it can, it's not an opinion. If an opinion is ever proven true or false (ex: "I believe it is possible to build a time machine." *inventors in an underground lab somewhere perform experiments and such and create a time machine* "Woot!") then it stops being an opinion and starts being a proven or disproven fact.

So I guess. . . to an extent you're right. The difference is, you can't have an opinion about something that has already been proven one way or another. You can have an opinion that gets disproved ("I think the Earth is flat"), but once it's proved, if you still think it, it's no longer an opinion, but incorrect information. Which is why you cannot be of the opinion, right now, that the moon is made of cheese.

. . . Maybe I should learn when to stop. This post is twice as long as I wanted it to be.

... What IS, "real"?

This:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NltWg1U6O0I

 

[Sandwich]

Toejam & Earl
-Obscure Games, somewhat dated
-A game was released for it...On the Xbox
- Name
- Never made it to an Nintendo console
- Sonic The Hedgehog is really the Sega series rep on Brawl at the moment

Rayman
-Could be descibed as a Sukapon clone
-Original game was never on a Nintendo console
-Rabbids would provide a somewhat screwy addition to the SSE
-Weak Stage Representation

Luigi
-Mario cloney
-Hasn't provided much of a signifigant role recently; he only really is injected into the story of Super Mario Galaxy
-The terrifying Mama Luigi pictures (IT BURRRRNSSSS!)

 

[Rubydragon]

Isaac
-The game he originates from is not very popular.
-He is another (though unique) sword user.

That's all I have for him.

 

[Deathparasol]

Oh, I was just about to say something for Isaac...I guess I'll put up Felix (who I like more actually).

Felix
-Move-wise, a clone of Isaac. Why put this guy in if you have Isaac, who was the first game main character? (I'd say because he looks better, but that's just me XD)
-Did not get many (if any) any recommendations on the poll.
-Third Party, Golden Sun may not show up at all.

Wolf
-Did not get many (if any) recommendations on Poll
- If Falco and Krystal get in, Starfox may be considered to already have enough reps (as we know it's not as big as Mario, LoZ, Pokemon, etc...).

It's pretty worrisome. I doubt Felix, but Wolf still has a good chance...right?

 

[TidalSpiral]

Sorry I'm late, but Reyairia I also think this is an awesome idea for a thread. You must have decent intelligence (whereas I'm the crackhead supporting Waldo for Brawl). Unfortunately my top choice was Dedede so I can't argue against him, but I'll have a go for Megaman, Wolf and Ridley.

Megaman
- Must be able to successfully charge while on the run and achieve victory from nearly only projectiles (pretty big alteration to the Smash Bros style).
- There are several versions of the character that have equal fan support but vary greatly in ability.
- Has no obvious method of copying enemy weapons, a staple of the series (could be argued for Kirby's style or something, but not all characters have guns so it doesn't make much sense to think he can get things from them).

Wolf
- Has no particular moveset to draw from, and although Fox was done despite this, Wolf's equipment must make sense with Fox's (and possibly Falco's) in mind.
- Typically utilizes very similar technology to Fox and represents the mirror role within his own squad (basically an anti-clone).
- Does not have the best history to draw on for a playable character (maybe not a good argument but many characters have more basis than him).

Ridley
- Has an erratic and reckless intent that may not crossover well as a playable character, who must by nature have enough weakness for any other fighter to K.O. them (sounds reachy, but just imagine Jiggly Puff winning against Ridley... it would at least feel wrong).
- Differing versions of the character may cause choice problems, in a similar way to Megaman but only for the designers (most Ridley fans seem to not care much which version they use so long as he joins the fight).
- Close knit tie-in to Samus' life may make him difficult to story thread with alternate game worlds (as her rival he serves a small but important part, what difference is it to him about a fat penguin?).

 

[Darkfur]

Oh, I was just about to say something for Isaac...I guess I'll put up Felix (who I like more actually).

Felix
-Move-wise, a clone of Isaac. Why put this guy in if you have Isaac, who was the first game main character? (I'd say because he looks better, but that's just me XD)
-Did not get many (if any) any recommendations on the poll.
-Third Party, Golden Sun may not show up at all.



It's pretty worrisome. I doubt Felix, but Wolf still has a good chance...right?

Golden Sun is not third party.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

As a Micaiah Fanboy...

Micaiah:
-Her release is a bit too new, while that didn't stop Roy in the past Roy was also not even released. Her JUST being out is more of a disadvantage than not being out at all.
-Criticism that she suffers the Roy Syndrome, e.g being more popular with Smashers than she is with the FE crowd. That was compounded when Lyn got deconfirmed.
-Is out prioritized by Marth, and maybe even Roy.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I hope that isn't sarcasm, honey.

No sarcasm here. Just bein' honest. Besides, I like having my ego assuaged once in a while.

>.>; And you got meh, Grim. I will not further the subject any more.

I'll probably post a "realistic" assortment of cons for some "likely" character pick for Brawl at some point tonight. However, I'm on break right now and time is short. So, yeah.

Hope the thread stays (relatively) flame-free.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Dragonblood21]

I kinda like the idea of this thread ^_^.

I'll do my biggest supporter:

Ashley
- Not a large American fan base.
- Warioware was just introduced, may not get a second rep.
- No importance over other characters in the series.

 

[EPX2]

Felix
-Did not get many (if any) any recommendations on the poll.
-Third Party, Golden Sun may not show up at all.

Felix was mentioned once on the poll but that doesn't really matter much, as far as I'm concerned.

As mentioned before, Golden Sun is far from being a third-party game... in fact, Nintendo owns the rights to GS and allows a second-party developer (Camelot) to create the games. There'd be no legality issues with including at least one GS rep, AFAIK

 

[The Slayer]

*sighs* Well, here I go, and this is my favorite character by the way:

Midna (alone):
-She too small
-She needs Wolf Link to do damage
-She appeared in one game
-We don't need another LoZ rep since we got the "legendary trio" anyways.

Actually, I would never say fallacious crap like this, but this is what I usually get here every time a con guy comes. Still I try my best to defend because she deserved to be in Brawl just like any other unique character that are originally good and different than what we have now.

 

[bballstar23]

Grim, I know I'm a fairly new member to this board, but it seems as if you're only proving Reyaira's point at the beginning. Yes, you have been able to speculate what new features characters have been based on, but you can't say that those requirements you listed are the ones necessary to implement a new character. I'm not saying that your points are invalid, or that you pulled them out of nowhere, just that no one can say exactly who Sakurai wants in. Yes, he has stated the basic requirements, but he hasn't gone into much depth afterwards, at least from what I know. Though I can't give you a Brawl character who came out of nowhere, Mr. Game & Watch is one for Melee. Granted, with the amount of games he originally had for the Game & Watch, some may claim it would have been easy to create his moveset. However, if a moveset can be made, and the player is a reasonable inclusion, and important to Sakurai, then they surely has a chance of getting in, as a playable character, assist trophy, whatever is deemed most appropriate.

(Reyairia: AP Psych was one of my favorite high school courses by the way. I always love it when someone brings up a term from that subject. )

Now for the character speculation that this thread originally has planned:

Ray 01
- Not the most recent version of Ray
- Had a minor part in Custom Robo Arena
- His design may be too intricate and detailed to implement into the game
- Not a franchise popular enough to get its own character yet (Argument I've heard on these Boards)

 

[Dragonbreath]

Wow. A good education in philosophy would have put a stop that that argument before it started.

Hmm. . .Okay, here I go.

Sonic

Too fast: Playing as him would be awkward.

Doesn't fight, just runs.

Not Nintendo.

Has an annoying fanbase.

Yup, there's no way Sonic could get in, right?

Oh, how I love to taunt the haters.


Okay, for real this time.

Marina Liteyears: Too irrelevant of a character, made by a third company, hasn't had a game since the 90's. Sigh. . .Something inside me just died. Can anyone spare a 1-Up?

 

[OysterMeister]

Dark Samus:
-Sakurai may be reluctant to even consider having three characters with 'samus' in their name
-She looks like Samus, and this in itself may be enough to send her to the bottom of the pile, or possibly win her an instant position on the roster as a clone
-She's overshadowed by Ridley by overwhelming popular opinion (which I can't help but assume SOMEBODY on the Brawl team must be aware of). And even with the popularity of the Prime trilogy it's hard to see Metroid becoming a four-character series.
-Although she is the staring villain of the Prime trilogy, that trilogy is now over. So the future roll or appearance of Dark Samus in Metroid games is unsure (as opposed to Ridley, who's become a standard now)


Also, for the record, an opinion is an opinion BECAUSE it can't be proven. If it could be proven, it's just something you believe that's true or false.
It's not a question of an opinion being wright or wrong, because the instant it becomes either it stops being an opinion, in the same sense that water stops being a liquid when you freeze it into ice.
Seriously, the whole can't-be-proven thing is part of the definition of the word. Look it up.

 

[bballstar23]

I'm not against Dark Samus, but it doesn't help its(not really Samus, so I don't think it has a gender) case that Sakurai isn't a fan of Prime. I would like to play as it though.

 

[Metalknux]

Falco
Sakurai could be too lazy to think of a moveset
He might not think he is important enough to return