Yet another tier list discussion thread

[Grass]

I know, I know, it's too early. But we're reaching almost 4 months of game play for this game. And before anyone says "oh but the wii u came out a month later so we should count that too", the game technically game out first on 3DS, the game plays the same on the Wii U, so I don't see the difference aside from what kind of controls you use. Anyway, since this is more or less an opinion thread, we're just gonna throw opinions here. So without further ado, let's discuss tiers.

S:
A:

B:

C:

D:

E:

I'm not sure if I forgot anyone, if I did, I'll add them, but this is roughly it.
A few notes though. Villager I left as D tier on here, but he's actually more or less mid, but I feel that a lot of players have a hard time using him. Lucina over Marth because not only does Lucina out range Marth, she is a more fluid character overall. And finally, Samus is not bad, and frankly she deserves more than low tier in here. She has a lot of potential to be better than she was back in Melee, despite not being able to throw out those fast missiles. That said, commence the discussion.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

This belongs in competitive, but I'll go along with it.

All characters that should be moved up: Yoshi, ZSS, Ness, Captain Falcon, Fox, Bowser, Link, Meta Knight, Mii Brawler, Palutena, MARTH, ROBIN, AND VILLAGER (In caps because I have no idea why they are in D)

All characters that should be moved down: Sonic, Mario, Olimar, Zelda, Samus, Mii Gunner.

The rest of the characters could be moved up or down depending who passes them. I would suggest making an + and - for some of the tiers, so we don't have a lot of people in one.

EDIT: I just find it funny you think Mario and Luigi are better than Captain Falcon and Fox :/

 

[Raijinken]

I imagine this'll end up locked (seems to be the trend with personal tier lists), unfortunately, but here's my feedback:

A general consensus amongst Marth and Lucina players says that Marth should never be lower, as he's only weaker if you lack tipper spacing and skill, which is irrelevant at higher-skill play.

Cfalc definitely should be higher. A lot of people also speak to the power and success of Megaman and Mii Brawler.

It's also interesting to see Olimar so high. Is there any reason for that?

You also left Duck Hunt, PacMan, and Dr. Mario out entirely.

And of course, difficulty of usage shouldn't factor into tier positioning.

 

[Grass]

EDIT: I just find it funny you think Mario and Luigi are better than Captain Falcon and Fox :/

Mario is easily top 10, this is confirmed by a lot of players. Falcon's weight increased thus making him easier to gimp via drop zone. I've seen this so many times on FG where falcons just get gimped by marios/docs with a simple cape. Again, this is just my opinion but ganon/falcon aren't really terribly viable this current metagame. He's good, don't get me wrong, but it's so easy to gimp falcon.

I imagine this'll end up locked (seems to be the trend with personal tier lists), unfortunately, but here's my feedback:

A general consensus amongst Marth and Lucina players says that Marth should never be lower, as he's only weaker if you lack tipper spacing and skill, which is irrelevant at higher-skill play.

Cfalc definitely should be higher. A lot of people also speak to the power and success of Megaman and Mii Brawler.

It's also interesting to see Olimar so high. Is there any reason for that?

You also left Duck Hunt, PacMan, and Dr. Mario out entirely.

And of course, difficulty of usage shouldn't factor into tier positioning.

I just explained Falcon. Cina's overall range makes her not only easier to use but marth having only tipper makes him kinda eh imo. Like I said, this is an opinion thread. This is my opinion, if you think marth should be higher than cina. I respect that, but this my opinion. The reason I set Olimar as B tier simple because of how fast he can accumulate damage. This may not be the case in Japan, but as far as US players go, Olimar, despite going from 6 to 3 pikmin is still a legitimate threat not only because of the damage accumulation, but also because right now, not a lot of people know the match up.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Mario is easily top 10, this is confirmed by a lot of players. Falcon's weight increased thus making him easier to gimp via drop zone. I've seen this so many times on FG where falcons just get gimped by marios/docs with a simple cape. Again, this is just my opinion but ganon/falcon aren't really terribly viable this current metagame. He's good, don't get me wrong, but it's so easy to gimp falcon.

Just because a character is easy to gimp doesn't mean they should be a tier lower than they should be. Falcon is one of the most combo heavy characters in the game, a decent punisher, and overall amazing in this iteration of smash. He should be mid A at least.

Mario is not top 10, he is certainly good, but he lacks options. Look up Mario in recent tournaments. He is good, but not top 10 worthy.

 

[Grass]

Just because a character is easy to gimp doesn't mean they should be a tier lower than they should be. Falcon is one of the most combo heavy characters in the game, a decent punisher, and overall amazing in this iteration of smash. He should be mid A at least.

Mario is not top 10, he is certainly good, but he lacks options. Look up Mario in recent tournaments. He is good, but not top 10 worthy.

Just because a lot of players don't use Mario, doesn't make him any less good. Falcon does not deserve A tier at all, he is combo heavy, but there are more factors than him just being able to combo.

 

[Raijinken]

Just because a character is easy to gimp doesn't mean they should be a tier lower than they should be. Falcon is one of the most combo heavy characters in the game, a decent punisher, and overall amazing in this iteration of smash. He should be mid A at least.

Mario is not top 10, he is certainly good, but he lacks options. Look up Mario in recent tournaments. He is good, but not top 10 worthy.

Mario's rather hard to place. I seem to recall M2K saying both he and Luigi have top-10 levels of potential that may not yet be realized. He's a very well-rounded character, the kicker is whether or not he's better at enough compared to other top contenders.

Just because a lot of players don't use Mario, doesn't make him any less good. Falcon does not deserve A tier at all, he is combo heavy, but there are more factors than him just being able to combo.

Diddy is one of the most gimpable characters in the game, and Little Mac has virtually no recovery potential (I'd think that would bump him far below B if Cfalc's recovery makes him not worth A).

There are more factors than just being gimpable.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Just because a lot of players don't use Mario, doesn't make him any less good. Falcon does not deserve A tier at all, he is combo heavy, but there are more factors than him just being able to combo.

His recovery is decent, but easily gimpable. Like a lot of characters. He is a heavy hitter, has good ranged attacks, counters campy characters, very excellent approaches, and more. Trust me.

Not a lot play Mario, and while he is very good, his kill moves aren't the best. He is good at racking up damage, but getting the kill is a struggle for him. The reason why Sheik is so good is because she is one of the best characters at racking up damage and having speed to do it. Mario is the same without the speed or priority. His cape is short range, but if yoou hit it it's good. The fireball is easy to dodge, Up-B doesn't kill. He is good, but if you weigh the differences, characters that are easy to gimp but have an amazing ground game and can easily gimp YOU (Falcon has one of the easiest spikes to hit in the game), are better than characters that have early game options.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Mario's rather hard to place. I seem to recall M2K saying both he and Luigi have top-10 levels of potential that may not yet be realized. He's a very well-rounded character, the kicker is whether or not he's better at enough compared to other top contenders.


Diddy is one of the most gimpable characters in the game, and Little Mac has virtually no recovery potential (I'd think that would bump him far below B if Cfalc's recovery makes him not worth A).

There are more factors than just being gimpable.

Luigi is getting there, and they have top 10 potential, but I don't think they are top 10. Especially if you're putting Falcon like 15th and Yoshi 7th.

 

[ChefKef]

People are just way too afraid of Diddy. He is certainly top 2, but not his own tier.

Pikachu should be lower, maybe top of B tier.

Lucario should be mid B tier.

Wario should be bottom B tier/Top C tier.

As much as it pains me, Luigi should be higher than Mario.

Olimar should fall like a rock to D tier.

Toon Link should go to bottom B tier.

G & Dubz should be near top of C tier.

Link should be top/mid C tier.

Meta should be near top C tier.

Gunner should be top D tier.

Kirby Should be mid D tier.

Jiggly should go somewhere in D tier.

Marth just needs to be higher than Lucina.

DDD should be top of D tier.

Greninja should be mid C tier.

Villager should be top D tier.

Dorf should hang with Sword in E tier. (RIP in peace ;_

My personal changes.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

People are just way too afraid of Diddy. He is certainly top 2, but not his own tier.

Pikachu should be lower, maybe top of B tier.

Lucario should be mid B tier.

Wario should be bottom B tier/Top C tier.

As much as it pains me, Luigi should be higher than Mario.

Olimar should fall like a rock to D tier.

Toon Link should go to bottom B tier.

G & Dubz should be near top of C tier.

Link should be top/mid C tier.

Meta should be near top C tier.

Gunner should be top D tier.

Kirby Should be mid D tier.

Jiggly should go somewhere in D tier.

Marth just needs to be higher than Lucina.

DDD should be top of D tier.

Greninja should be mid C tier.

Villager should be top D tier.

Dorf should hang with Sword in E tier. (RIP in peace ;_

My personal changes.

Villager and Kirby D tier? lolplz

 

[Grass]

Luigi is getting there, and they have top 10 potential, but I don't think they are top 10. Especially if you're putting Falcon like 15th and Yoshi 7th.

They were in no particular order. I just wanna say this.

His recovery is decent, but easily gimpable. Like a lot of characters. He is a heavy hitter, has good ranged attacks, counters campy characters, very excellent approaches, and more. Trust me.

Okay let's look at the factors. He's heavier than brawl, which means he won't be doing a lot off stage. He can deal with zoning well, yes, but good zoners won't let him get in. Look at Japanese villagers, they are amazing at the zoning game. Fact, anyone who can play villager with good zoning options will easily break even the toughest of falcon players.

 

[Grass]

People are just way too afraid of Diddy. He is certainly top 2, but not his own tier.

Pikachu should be lower, maybe top of B tier.

Lucario should be mid B tier.

Wario should be bottom B tier/Top C tier.

As much as it pains me, Luigi should be higher than Mario.

Olimar should fall like a rock to D tier.

Toon Link should go to bottom B tier.

G & Dubz should be near top of C tier.

Link should be top/mid C tier.

Meta should be near top C tier.

Gunner should be top D tier.

Kirby Should be mid D tier.

Jiggly should go somewhere in D tier.

Marth just needs to be higher than Lucina.

DDD should be top of D tier.

Greninja should be mid C tier.

Villager should be top D tier.

Dorf should hang with Sword in E tier. (RIP in peace ;_

My personal changes.

villager D tier, my sides.
Kirby is definitely not D tier by any means. He's definitely C tier placing.

 

[Raijinken]

Villager and Kirby D tier? lolplz

Villager probably deserves higher, but Kirby has valid priority and range issues that make him hard to start fights with. It's hard being a combo character who has trouble starting his own combos, but he's definitely got more untapped potential than people give him credit for.

 

[HeroMystic]

Diddy doesn't deserve his own tier placement.

Mario's a contender for top 15, but not top 10. Same for Luigi.

ZSS is probably top 5, if not top 3. Lucario and Shulk should be lower.

Why is Lucina higher than Marth? And the gap between them is baffling.

 

[Grass]

Diddy doesn't deserve his own tier placement.

Mario's a contender for top 15, but not top 10. Same for Luigi.

ZSS is probably top 5, if not top 3. Lucario and Shulk should be lower.

Why is Lucina higher than Marth? And the gap between them is baffling.

like I said, these are all opinions, I can respect your opinion if you think Marth is higher.

 

[Lazyboy0337]

Link needs to be higher. With his projectile lag shortened and him actually having kill potential, his only big downside is being a bit slow.

Marth>Lucina. Lucina is better in some niche matchups, but having good spacing with the tip is much better than having no sourspot.

I'd push Greninja up a bit. The nerfs hit him, but he's still very mobile and has many good options.

Dedede should be higher in D ot low C. His lag and reliance on Gordo to approach sucks, but he has great damage, surprisingly good range, and good survivability.

 

[HeroMystic]

like I said, these are all opinions, I can respect your opinion if you think Marth is higher.

I know they're your opinions, but I'm interested in why that is the case.

To clarify, Lucina is definitely worse than Marth.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

They were in no particular order. I just wanna say this.



Okay let's look at the factors. He's heavier than brawl, which means he won't be doing a lot off stage. He can deal with zoning well, yes, but good zoners won't let him get in. Look at Japanese villagers, they are amazing at the zoning game. Fact, anyone who can play villager with good zoning options will easily break even the toughest of falcon players.

You haven't seen a good Falcon.

Yes, people who can camp can break through Falcon's easily, but if you know the matchup, which they probably didn't, it's Falcon favourable. He has a really good up-air, if he gets you off stage its a 1/2 chance you're dead, if you miss the gimp you're gonna eat an up-b pretty hard, his throws are godly, being heavy makes him harder to kill, but he is heavy with a good jump height, meaning he can still get around. The stage is his playground, he has so many options to move around.

He might be low A, but B is too low. And Villager is higher too cough.

 

[Grass]

I know they're your opinions, but I'm interested in why that is the case.

To clarify, Lucina is definitely worse than Marth.

I don't think so, I think Lucina has a lot of untapped potential. Marth has ending lag for pokes and I don't like that about him. Forcing Marth to use frame traps and the fact that a lot of his approaches are bad, I find Lucina, despite not having tipper, to actually have better range game than marth. That's just what I think.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

I don't think so, I think Lucina has a lot of untapped potential. Marth has ending lag for pokes and I don't like that about him. Forcing Marth to use frame traps and the fact that a lot of his approaches are bad, I find Lucina, despite not having tipper, to actually have better range game than marth. That's just what I think.

She has a better range game, but not a better kill game. Marth is better for combos and kills, and Lucina is better for gimps and edgeguarding. They are about the same to me.

 

[Grass]

She has a better range game, but not a better kill game. Marth is better for combos and kills, and Lucina is better for gimps and edgeguarding. They are about the same to me.

I more or less agree with this. I think it really comes down to your play style.

 

[ChefKef]

Yikes, a lot of talk of untapped potential. Let's rate on what they've been shown to do, not on what we think they could do.

Back to Villager,it's hard to place him. Unless you get a random bowling ball somewhere, his only kill potential is tree, which is very hard to land. He is very good at racking up damage, but no so good on capitalizing on that damage.

 

[Grass]

Yikes, a lot of talk of untapped potential. Let's rate on what they've been shown to do, not on what we think they could do.

Back to Villager,it's hard to place him. Unless you get a random bowling ball somewhere, his only kill potential is tree, which is very hard to land. He is very good at racking up damage, but no so good on capitalizing on that damage.

You clearly have not seen Japanese villagers, they are insane with their range game. It's one of the reasons they rate villager as B tier. The zoning that Villager can do is pretty insane.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

You clearly have not seen Japanese villagers, they are insane with their range game. It's one of the reasons they rate villager as B tier. The zoning that Villager can do is pretty insane.

Then why dd you put him bottom of D lol

 

[Grass]

Then why dd you put him bottom of D lol

read the notes I left.

western players aren't used to playing villager.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

read the notes I left.

western players aren't used to playing villager.

That doesn't make him low tier. Skill at playing doesn't decide. How good the character in general does. So lets say X character is super hard to use, but super OP. He would be top tier, he is hard to use, but if mastered, wrecks everyone.

 

[Grass]

That doesn't make him low tier. Skill at playing doesn't decide. How good the character in general does. So lets say X character is super hard to use, but super OP. He would be top tier, he is hard to use, but if mastered, wrecks everyone.

*sigh* I'm done,

I already explained this is my opinion, I'm not going to argue this..

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

*sigh* I'm done,

I already explained this is my opinion, I'm not going to argue this..

If it's your opinion, then why post the damn thread lol. If you're gonna post an early tier list, expect criticism. You didn't have to post yours.

 

[JayFresh]

www eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/ I like this list personally, it's community voted Le Reddit style so you know you are getting a good even oppinion

 

[Grass]

www eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/ I like this list personally, it's community voted Le Reddit style so you know you are getting a good even oppinion

this list changes almost every week. I can't trust this, sorry.

 

[JayFresh]

this list changes almost every week. I can't trust this, sorry.

if by changes you mean fighters shift 1-3 spots, it barely changes at all the top 10 have been the same for over a month

 

[Snerp]

Wasn't it confirmed Marth actually outranges Lucina and not the other way around like you stated?

 

[Grass]

if by changes you mean fighters shift 1-3 spots, it barely changes at all the top 10 have been the same for over a month

last I checked they had pac-man and charizard and all these characters as top 5. I cannot trust the tier list there. Also, because you mentioned Reddit, I can actually trust it even less.

Wasn't it confirmed Marth actually outranged Lucina and not the other way around like you stated?

Nope.

 

[Snerp]

last I checked they had pac-man and charizard and all these characters as top 5. I cannot trust the tier list there. Also, because you mentioned Reddit, I can actually trust it even less.



Nope.

http://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

look @ 3

 

[Ze Diglett]

I can't help but laugh at the fact that Olimar, Little Mac, and Wario are higher than characters like R.O.B., Mii Brawler, Robin, Greninja (seriously? he's not THAT bad after the update), Mega Man, and (Toon) Link.
Not to mention the questionable placement of characters like DK, Zelda, Marth, and G&W.
(don't follow the eventscrubs tier list either, that's even worse)

 

[Lautsuu~]

I can't agree with Marth being lower than Lucina. Not because I'm bias, but because he has been proven to be better than Luci. Sorry.

 

[Grass]

I can't agree with Marth being lower than Lucina. Not because I'm bias, but because he has been proven to be better than Luci. Sorry.

well then, where's the proof?

http://smashboards.com/threads/before-you-ask-the-differences-between-marth-and-lucina.376180/

look @ 3

Get Lucina as player 2 and Marth player 1 in training mode and spam forward smash. I don't need an outdated link to tell me who's range is better.

 

[Snerp]

Proof is all over the Lucina and Marth boards.

 

[Grass]

Proof is all over the Lucina and Marth boards.

I honestly couldn't help but laugh at this.