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Wow, I can see Weegee being at least upper tier

Turbo Ether

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
3,601
Insane priority on almost every attack. INSANE! Great juggle capability. A rapid fire projectile. Great recovery, albeit gimpable. SH Fair Fair Nair! WTF?! Snake punishes people with Utilt and kills them at 115%. Luigi punishes people with UpB and kills them at 60%.

Start winning tournaments, guys!
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
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Hes a really good character IMO, but he has some flaws. First off, his recover is extremely predictable, so watch out for edgeguarders. So-so projectile, so be wary of spammers like pit. Lastly, he has a few horrible matchups, most particularly Metaknight. MK dominates luigi in almost every way, and to make matters worse, luigi has no attack that cancels MK's mach tornado. you can only dair it from above.
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
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3,107
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Staten Island, NY
Yeah really he is amazing. His nair makes him untouchable. He ***** one of the current metagame threats (Wario), he can combo pretty well as far as brawl standards, his fsmash is amazing, and a majority of his moves leave him safe, and although his sliding makes him a bit vulnerable it also keeps him safe from certain shield pressure, and its harder to follow up on things like diddy bananas
 

Leprechaun_Drunk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
339
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Bronx, New York
IMO, Luigi is one of those characters that you have to work hard to get good at, and that's why he'll always be left back. People don't take the time to learn and master a character to win if it requires effort and concentration; they'd rather jump on the MK or Snake bandwagon. Luigi is one of the more difficult characters to use, if only because he can be tricky to control. However, he has such a vast potential that I fear unfortunately will never be untapped.
 

Yonder

Smashboard's 1st Sole Survivor
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Yeah, since people arn't winning torneys with this great character, everyone will call him garbage soon enough :(
 

M@v

Subarashii!
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IMO, Luigi is one of those characters that you have to work hard to get good at, and that's why he'll always be left back. People don't take the time to learn and master a character to win if it requires effort and concentration; they'd rather jump on the MK or Snake bandwagon. Luigi is one of the more difficult characters to use, if only because he can be tricky to control. However, he has such a vast potential that I fear unfortunately will never be untapped.
Then why was fox top tier in melee? He was amazing, but also extremely hard to get good at.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
Characters that are played a lot are all characters that seemed good to people when they played on day 1. Metaknight was one of those, and so was Ike. On day 100, Metaknight is still good, and Ike not so much, but Ike is still played more than Luigi.

In addition, people gauge this stuff on the "cool" factor, and you know it to be true. Sword users, "snake" etc... all draw more attention. If we took luigi and completely copied his moveset in terms of hitboxes and speed, but replaced him with a ninja that held a knife when he swung? That luigi "ninja" would have many more players than current luigi.
 

Ryan-K

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Then why was fox top tier in melee? He was amazing, but also extremely hard to get good at.
No...he wasn't that hard to use lol.

He was only hard to learn if someone was first starting the game with him and didn't know how to play.

A bunch of his tricks take some tech skill but it's certainly not difficult to use him at all. You just have to be careful sometimes but that applies to everyone in melee lol.
 

Camalange

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Characters that are played a lot are all characters that seemed good to people when they played on day 1. Metaknight was one of those, and so was Ike. On day 100, Metaknight is still good, and Ike not so much, but Ike is still played more than Luigi.

In addition, people gauge this stuff on the "cool" factor, and you know it to be true. Sword users, "snake" etc... all draw more attention. If we took luigi and completely copied his moveset in terms of hitboxes and speed, but replaced him with a ninja that held a knife when he swung? That luigi "ninja" would have many more players than current luigi.
You know that's a really good point. A lot of people look at Luigi and are like Wow, what a lame character and choose the cool looking guys like marth, ike, or snake. but man, I believe Luigi is one of the best characters in this game...
 

Leprechaun_Drunk

Smash Journeyman
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May 11, 2008
Messages
339
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Bronx, New York
You know that's a really good point. A lot of people look at Luigi and are like Wow, what a lame character and choose the cool looking guys like marth, ike, or snake. but man, I believe Luigi is one of the best characters in this game...
Marth and Ike are cool looking? Man, I must really be lame then..because I couldn't disagree more. Marth and Ike are the epitome of uncoolness. Luigi, now there's a cool *** character.
 
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Too bad Marths are not nearly as common as Warios on the West coast, MKs in the MD/VA region, or Snakes in the NE area.


Let's face it, compared to Melee, there really aren't nearly as many Marths as before, yet he's just as good if not VERY slightly worse.
 

SparkEd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
231
Realize that it takes time for the metagame to develop, so Luigi hasn't gone in vain YET; many are still adjusting from Melee Playstyles.
 

Leprechaun_Drunk

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Too bad Marths are not nearly as common as Warios on the West coast, MKs in the MD/VA region, or Snakes in the NE area.


Let's face it, compared to Melee, there really aren't nearly as many Marths as before, yet he's just as good if not VERY slightly worse.
MK and Marth are both equally uncool, lame ***, piece o' crap characters who should be erased from Nintendo histories and their creators punished brutally. Snake and Wario are cool, though.
 

Sans Glutin

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MK is certainly not cool. He's a cliche fast-attacking sword character with about as much personality as a block of cement.
 

mr_kennedy44

Smash Journeyman
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IMO, Luigi is one of those characters that you have to work hard to get good at, and that's why he'll always be left back. People don't take the time to learn and master a character to win if it requires effort and concentration; they'd rather jump on the MK or Snake bandwagon. Luigi is one of the more difficult characters to use, if only because he can be tricky to control. However, he has such a vast potential that I fear unfortunately will never be untapped.
QFT. I actually can see Luigi's potential come out. When it comes out is the question.
 

Conclusively

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 30, 2008
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417
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Well, there's no way to abuse Luigi by spamming random crap like tilts+grenades with Snake, F-air with Marth, Mach Tornado+F-airs with MK. It takes at least some skill to use, so most people are just lazy and go to top tier chars that are easier to use.
 

Eten

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
580
Well, you know
Luigi has a great recovery that can deliver more height/distance than kirby's. Most of that isn't practically used. But you can also have a nearly ungimpable recovery but purposefully aiming a charged green missile ledge sweetspot.
He's also got great priority. His Tornado, while in the air, completely ignores most projectiles, and eats up a ton of attacks, and while on the ground, eats up or clanks against a lot of things. Thanks to it's quick startup and movement speed, it's a very cool tool against a lot of projectiles.
But it isn't just that- I've never done testing to see what works where, but I get clanks on a lot of my moves all the time- upsmash, uptilt, and fsmash included clanking with the likes of snake's tilts and people's smashes.(Like for sure Luigi's uptilt always clanks with Fox's fsmash and luigi's up-angled fsmash clanks with marth's fsmash). More often than not- it seems to come as a shock to my opponents- a lot of these players using a characters better moves getting outprioritzed and then outspammed by the likes of luigi's uptilt. I'm not sure what Luigi's dsmash priority has, as it almost always hits and rarely clanks against something.

Which brings me to what is probably my favorite thing about luigi. Attack speed. He has a lot of fast startup, little ending lag moves. When playing luigi, the first thing I keep in mind is that I never have to trade up starting lag or ending lag and make myself vulnerable at any time. Between multiple fast double aerial combinations that autocancel to a jab or dsmash or grab, I pride myself in being hard to hit while still being very aggressive.

Next to that, Luigi is abnormally good at escaping strings of hits and through whatever mechanics is not a guy to suffer much hitstun. Either it be his floatiness, his fast aerials like nair allowing him to attack out of hitstun so quickly, or simply that he suffers less hit stun than most characters makes him great at avoiding getting hit more than once where others can get hit at least twice. (A good example, almost all of Kirby's combos are completely ineffective against luigi where they at least work to a nominal 32% on others- Kirby's fthrow to uair, for example, can usually be chained twice on most characters and once on just about everybody, but not luigi. Same thing with any of his dthrow to uptilt choices- they just don't connect at all on luigi).

Of course on the other end, luigi is quite talented at racking up the damage. His aerials are very friendly to strings of hits, as is his uptilt. Thanks to his flexibility, it seems that he can either follow DI and still hit with a different move very well or can chase through attacks and airdodges just as well. I've tried to pay attention to what I do and it often looks something like this-
Punishing spacing or shielding with a grab to downthrow to uptilt to aerial...
Falling weak hit nair to uptilt to possible more uptilts to aerial...
Dsmash(standing or sliding) at low % to upsmash or uptilt to aerial...
I also sometimes find that I can fair to nair at low %, and at 50%+ I can often still two hit with a weak hit falling nair... I'm sure there is more, but these are just off the top of my head. It's hard to keep track of what all I do when my opponent goes from 0 to 64%.

But are also just starters. I can also start out with an uptilt at nearly any time. IF you hit on the downwards arc of his uair(your back to your opponent, and anytime luigi's foot passes the perfectly vertical point) you can often get two hits in a single shorthop at even 50%+. So as a damage builder, I've done things like a falling weak hit nair to uptilt to uptilt, then shielded as my opponent used his nair out of hitstun thinking to hit me, grabbed, downthrowed, then 2x uair to land(that's an easily autocancelled set of aerials btw) to something like a buffered dash into an upsmash chase or go right into shorthop double bair spacing. It's not all "combo" exactly, but luigi's flexibility in his aerials and moves makes him very, very effective at building up damage despite different moves the opponent take to avoid getting hit.

And last of all, as I've started doing this much more just recently- but want to exploit the incredible defensive power of shields? After performing a short hop double aerial that doesn't hit anything, thanks to luigi's lack of lag and the ability to even avoid landing lag with some aerial combinations, I landed with time to powershielded a marth's fsmash meant to punish me, out of which I simply took two small steps forward and firejumppunched marth out of his fsmash ending lag for a KO at 60%!

Also, KO power. Sub 100% KO % on all characters on Final Destination w/ up-angled fsmash, great variety of other KO moves, etc. etc.

So this long-winded post is just me talking about how everytime I play luigi I'm only motivated to play more luigi.
 

LuigiKing

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,304
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Towson MD/Moscow ID
Ya know Eten, every time I see you post here, its a long winded, and generally amazing post. As odd as this sounds, thank you for that. I am a long time Luigi mainer and I still find myself picking up things from your posts. Great job and keep it up ^_^
 

ALiAsVee

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
739
Marth and Ike are cool looking? Man, I must really be lame then..because I couldn't disagree more. Marth and Ike are the epitome of uncoolness. Luigi, now there's a cool *** character.
AMEN TO THAT xD. I personally like the characters that aren't all macho and look like they can kill you in seconds with their swords and explosives. Thats why i use kirby and luigi as my mains xD
 

hippiedude92

Smash Hero
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Jun 23, 2008
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Wishing Apex 2012 happened again.
Meehh I don't really expect Luigi to be upper tier in a very long time or so. But I can see luigi power lies within the aerials. What i love and sometimes hate about him is that, he fights differently against such as projectile or sword user which makes things interesting because it makes you go into a different fighting style
 
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