Would this be a problem?

[_Phloat_]

Im about to go to INNsomnia, and have only about week to train and get better, and I have been wondering... Is it bad to "switch styles" of holding the controller, I change when I need to waveshine.. I move the index finger to the X button when I waveshine, and it is not that I cannot waveshine well like this, I can get it close to frame perfect (I think, I do not see the shine, just a little white core) But when I am done with the shine combo, I must revert to regular, and this leaves me vunerable for a second, and when I am in the position I can barely NA, but that is getting better...

So, what do you think, should I learn it the conventional way, or just do it my way?

 

[Fefnir Cerveau]

Idk, depends on the situation, I guess. I hold the controller normally whatever the situation, so I wouldn't know. I'd change it if there seems to be a major problem. I saw the claw method but it felt weird doing it. It was a long ago, so I don't even remember the proper way anymore.

Can anyone refresh my memory?

 

[nutinbutadime]

play how you need to play

 

[Giggidax]

yea wat nutin said, if thats how u hold ur controller then do so. but if it leaves u vulnerable work on switching positions faster. if u can waveshine fast like that then i would jus stick with that method since ur alrdy so used to it

 

[FastFox]

I doubt you're doing it frame perfectly. The hexagonal part of the shine appears after 3-4 frames, and that's when it can be cancelled. However, it's inhuman (literally) to be able to cancel the shine within those frames. You'd need an action replay. Even the fastest of players cancel the shine on maybe the 6th-7th frame.

Anyways, to answer your question, I suggest starting to waveshine like normal. Those seconds of vulnerability can mean the end of the match for you. Remember, Fox is light. One hit can mean disaster for your game.

 

[Hylian]

I play with claw and I switch as well..whenever I shine I use my index finger but other then that my thumb. I just keep my index finger really close to X I guess >_>..I never had a problem with it. And if it leaving you vunerable try fox trotting away while switching your right hand.

 

[_Phloat_]

Thanks for all the help guys, and I thought it took 10 frames?? It is really slow (comparitivly) to cancel if you hit someone with it, and I was exaggerating a little...lot.. w/e

Well, I think that either fastfox or Hylian have been to many a tournament, don't know which, but, I have a little question for you guys and I didn't want to make another topic..

How fast should I be going for it to be useful? I looked at shine blind (old, I know) and saw that his are out a little longer than mine, and he still has beautiful combos! I can do it a little faster, it is a lot less consistant, but it is a little faster. Should I be working on the consistancy instead of speed?

 

[Tundravalco]

when i waveshine i like to use X and R. i think its faster and easier to get perfect wavedashes. btw i hold the controller normally when i do it.

 

[Omni]

here's my advice:

don't switch controllers. if you can't waveshine good now, you won't be able to during Insomnia. most people play 10x worse at tourny. use the most comfortable position you have.

my advice is for you to simply shine and wavedash down. against Link, Falcon, Peach, Ganondorf you can do this and run after them with an easy grab or if you're fast enough, an up-smash.

knowing how to jump out of shield with Fox is more important then waveshining. it's the key to a fox with great mindgames

 

[Squeek727]

Im not that good or anything. Well actually im no good at all, but if you ask me i say just to stick with what you feel is most comforatable. I can hardly wavedash and i use the R when i hit the ground but i know some people who use Z or L. Just and example of how everyone is different.

 

[Doval]

Thanks for all the help guys, and I thought it took 10 frames?? It is really slow (comparitivly) to cancel if you hit someone with it, and I was exaggerating a little...lot.. w/e

Taking hit lag into account, the earliest you can start the jump is the seventh frame. The shine goes like this:
1st frame: Hits, Fox is invulnerable
2-3: Shine is neither hitting nor reflecting
4: Shine starts reflecting, jump can be started on this frame.

If you hit someone, you get 3 frames of hit lag, he/she gets 5 (normally both players get the same amount, but attacks that electrify the opponent give them about 1.5 times more lag.) Once again, assuming perfection, the shine would go:
1: Shine hits, Fox is invulnerable
2-4: Fox's hit lag. The shine is "stuck" in the first frame during these three frames.
5-6: 2nd and 3rd frames of the shine's animation. It's not hitting nor reflecting.
7: 4th frame of the shine's animation. Starts reflecting, jump can be started on this frame.

You'd be in the initial jump animation from frames 7 to 9 (Fox's jump animation is 3 frames) and you'd be able to air dodge on the 10th, which would put you back on the ground immediately. You have 10 frames of lag when landing from an air dodge, so you'd be unable to act from frames 10 to 19. You'd be able to input your first action after the waveshine on the 20th frame.

On the other hand, after the first frame that the shine hits, most characters that stay standing have 33 frames in total of stun (5 frames of hit lag, 28 more frames of stun). They'd be able to put up their shield on frame 34. Overall, you have 14 frames of room for error and/or walking/running a bit closer to the opponent.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, do what you need to do. If you feel it's better for you to switch hand positions, then do so. In that case, learn to switch positions as quickly as possible.

 

[xelad1]

I advise EVENTUALLY learning to do it the proper way since you say it leaves you vulnerable, but trying to change something that is ingrained into your muscle memory this close to a tourney is probably not a sound idea... just find ways to get around the lag for now, but since it seems that you yourself notice an inherent flaw in the way you're waveshining that you should probably learn how to do it the proper way until you are comfortable with it.... good luck at your tourney!

 

[Hylian]

Thanks for all the help guys, and I thought it took 10 frames?? It is really slow (comparitivly) to cancel if you hit someone with it, and I was exaggerating a little...lot.. w/e

Well, I think that either fastfox or Hylian have been to many a tournament, don't know which, but, I have a little question for you guys and I didn't want to make another topic..

How fast should I be going for it to be useful? I looked at shine blind (old, I know) and saw that his are out a little longer than mine, and he still has beautiful combos! I can do it a little faster, it is a lot less consistant, but it is a little faster. Should I be working on the consistancy instead of speed?

I've been to quite a few tournys >_>..

Anyways..You just need to be going fast enough to get to them again to shine(if you are waveshining someone like peach) or jab someone that falls..Doing it increadibly fast may look flashy but isn't nessesary..you just need to go fast enough to where they can't break out of the stun from your shine and shield. You are going to damage them the same reguardless. Consistancy > Speed.

 

[spoonyd]

Personally, I think learning to do all moves holding the controller one way is the best way to go in the long run. However, it's not realistic to try to change and relearn this close to performance time. Not hat I believe there's one perfect way to hold a controller but it sounds like you'll do fine this time around. Good luck!

 

[Micheloxx]

pay ur style until after the innsomnia