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Would Meta Knight stand a chance?

Darklink401

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So this isn't a majorly serious thread. Just something I was thinking about.

I've heard over and over that Meta Knight is a Melee character in Brawl.

But would he, with Brawl's physics, be able to compete with the Melee game? Where would he place in a tier list?

Would he be top tier, if Melee physics such as wave dashing and L-cancelling were in his arsenal?

I don't play Melee competitively, but I figured it'd be an interesting curiosity to satiate.
 

BTmoney

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lol he would be a god if he had momentum canceling and reverse ledge grabs in melee + his infinite recovery + being able to safely gimp every melee char

he'd basically be a combination of fox and jigglypuff with a sword and impossible to KO.


if he had melee mechanics he'd be the best anyways, might lose to fox but would beat everyone else
 
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Darklink401

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Huh...interesting. XD

And what if he duked it out with a Melee character, with just his Brawl physics? As in, no Melee-techs. Would he still be...ya know, good?
 

Praxis

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He wins in literally every scenario you will come up with here.

Brawl MK in Melee with Brawl physics? Uncomboable ungimpable monster that tears Melee characters apart with his tornado and autocancels against their higher shieldstun and hitstun.

MK in Melee, with Brawl stats but Melee physics? We have that, it's called Project M, except PM had to nerf over half of his moves just to make him viable, and he's still top ten, and that's in PM with a bunch of crazy powered characters like Mario, Diddy, Mewtwo, Lucas, Pit and Link over him . PM MK in Melee would be top five, and Brawl MK in Melee with no nerfs would poop on the entire cast.
 
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xbombr

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Huh...interesting. XD

And what if he duked it out with a Melee character, with just his Brawl physics? As in, no Melee-techs. Would he still be...ya know, good?
Probably not. He wouldn't be able to do wavedashes/lands and he couldn't L-Cancel so his ability to pressure shields would be gimped. His options would be pretty limited in comparison to a good chunk of the cast.
 

Praxis

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Probably not. He wouldn't be able to do wavedashes/lands and he couldn't L-Cancel so his ability to pressure shields would be gimped. His options would be pretty limited in comparison to a good chunk of the cast.
His ability to pressure shields wouldn't be gimped at all. He could safely space shields in Brawl, and Brawl has half the shield drop time and way less shieldstun compared to Melee.

He still has his low landing lag and autocancels and 13-total-frame uair and tornado and dtilt and makes Marth's look bad and slow fall speed that lets him out of combos and ability to airdodge out of hitstun...

He'd be uncomboable, but kill everyone else off a touch. He could gimp people in BRAWL.
 

xbombr

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His ability to pressure shields wouldn't be gimped at all. He could safely space shields in Brawl, and Brawl has half the shield drop time and way less shieldstun compared to Melee.

He still has his low landing lag and autocancels and 13-total-frame uair and tornado and dtilt and makes Marth's look bad and slow fall speed that lets him out of combos and ability to airdodge out of hitstun...

He'd be uncomboable, but kill everyone else off a touch. He could gimp people in BRAWL.
Brawl also doesn't have WD out of shield options and many of the moves in that game work differently from similar moves in melee. It's a slower game in general and he can get away with stuff there that doesn't work in melee's engine.

Some characters combo Jigglypuff in this game, so I don't see how Metaknight would be uncomboable. For example, I think his match up against Falco would be relatively even if not in Falco's favor. (Unless you're factoring in the complete lack of hitstun in Brawl and low shieldstun, in which case we're putting Melee characters in Brawl [not the other way around] and he would competely wreck them.)

This discussion is kind of pointless anyway since Metaknight isn't in Melee and will never be in Melee.
 

Darklink401

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That's very true, but it wasn't to put him in Melee, but more of a What if xD

I wonder if Pikachu, from 64 would fare any good in any other game as well XP
 
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Praxis

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Brawl also doesn't have WD out of shield options and many of the moves in that game work differently from similar moves in melee. It's a slower game in general and he can get away with stuff there that doesn't work in melee's engine.

Some characters combo Jigglypuff in this game, so I don't see how Metaknight would be uncomboable. For example, I think his match up against Falco would be relatively even if not in Falco's favor. (Unless you're factoring in the complete lack of hitstun in Brawl and low shieldstun, in which case we're putting Melee characters in Brawl [not the other way around] and he would competely wreck them.)

This discussion is kind of pointless anyway since Metaknight isn't in Melee and will never be in Melee.
Brawl actually has the same hitstun as Melee, but has it explicitly coded in to the game that Brawl airdodges can cancel hitstun on frame 13 and attacks can cancel hitstun on frame 25.

If you kept Metaknight identical to Brawl, he would be like this. His airdodge breaks hitstun on frame 13 regardless of how much hitstun has been applied by the move. This would give him a huge advantage on any Melee character.

Plus he'd have the low fall speed of Brawl making him hard to combo.

Yeah, sure, Fox has much more movement options, but MK has better options. He doesn't need to wavedash out of shield when he can nair OOS instantly without landing lag. He has Marth-like range via ftilt and dtilt and aerials that autocancel with almost no landing lag. He can aircamp Fox and Fox can't do too much and can basically zero death Fox out of a hit very easily.

Even if all of the different movement options gives Fox a slight edge in neutral, this will be the one character he CAN'T zero death in the hands of an expert character. Fox will take SO much more damage out of a hit than he will give out.

And that's assuming MK doesn't get all of his global Brawl features, like super-Smash-DI.

If we put him in Melee physics, we basically have a souped-up PM MK which still craps all over Fox.
 
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Darklink401

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I'd like to see that

Brawl Meta Knight vs Melee Fox

OP vs OP

it sounds so awesome.
 
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Thor

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His dair alone makes him a nightmare - imagine Jigglypuff with a shine that has more range and is easier to hit [since some can still recover from a bair offstage], and you have MK's dair and gimping powers.

That's why PM nerfed that so badly.

His dsmash is also faster than in PM, and his drill rush is a MUCH better recovery move in Brawl (although auto-sweetspotting is part of why).

His uair -> tornado strings would also be incredibly easy percent to land with how little endlag he has on his uair. Tornado could also easily catch recoveries like phantasm and spit them back out - even if they're onstage they probably are either above MK (that's a problem) or trying to land on his level, which means they either attack and have lag or have to tech, and MK is fast enough to tech chase for sure.

His aerials also all autocancel or have so little endlag they may as well already be L-cancelled.

He would tear Fox [and everyone else] apart.
 

Praxis

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His dair alone makes him a nightmare - imagine Jigglypuff with a shine that has more range and is easier to hit [since some can still recover from a bair offstage], and you have MK's dair and gimping powers.

That's why PM nerfed that so badly.

His dsmash is also faster than in PM, and his drill rush is a MUCH better recovery move in Brawl (although auto-sweetspotting is part of why).

His uair -> tornado strings would also be incredibly easy percent to land with how little endlag he has on his uair. Tornado could also easily catch recoveries like phantasm and spit them back out - even if they're onstage they probably are either above MK (that's a problem) or trying to land on his level, which means they either attack and have lag or have to tech, and MK is fast enough to tech chase for sure.

His aerials also all autocancel or have so little endlag they may as well already be L-cancelled.

He would tear Fox [and everyone else] apart.
It's not just the auto-sweetspot, if you angle MK's side-B up you get a little hop out of it at the end, and it had more ability to angle it. MK could recover from offscreen in the bottom left corner on Battlefield with no jumps using side-B.

MK would combo everything in to tornado in Melee, and I'm fairly sure with Melee hitstun he could combo autocancelled tornado to shuttle loop.
 

victra♥

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brawl metaknight is probably the strongest smash character across the whole franchise imo
 

Spak

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Giga Bowser's hurtbox let's him get hit by pretty much everything, meaning Puff demolishes him with sleeps and anyone in Melee could combo him to death easily (other than Kirby, Bowser, and Pichu).
 
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