Marios My Bro
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 151
I think tiers are a complete bust in my opinion. YOu can beat anybody who is on the top of tiers
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Worst or Less-Good character?
- Thread starter Zen Yore
- Start date
greenblob
Smash Lord
That's like saying a bicycle can beat a car in a race.
There isnt that much difference in the ssb64 tiers
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
when you post, and people reply, do you pay attention or do you just see "blah blah blah"? because you really really do seem to ignore everything everyone tells you...
....
Did I say something wrong??
asianaussie
Smash Hero
There isn't that much difference in the SSB 64 tiers. Not compared to Melee or Brawl, at any rate.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
he said a bike vs a car, which i think is ratonal
for melee tiers are like...
Racing a plane with a ballon
Worst character? You've got to be kidding. You just suck at using her that's all
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
probably, if you can play online you could teach me :DWorst character? You've got to be kidding. You just suck at using her that's all
Superstar
Smash Champion
Then what's Brawl? A rocket versus a rock?
And Nixxon, green was just addressing Marios opinion that tiers don't ext. Speaking of, green, can I steal your analogy?
About balance, I notice it can be in different ways. The difference between top and bottom, or how many characters are close to the top. How does each game stack up? Melee has an extreme difference between top and bottom I notice, but how did say the top half compare?
And Nixxon, green was just addressing Marios opinion that tiers don't ext. Speaking of, green, can I steal your analogy?
About balance, I notice it can be in different ways. The difference between top and bottom, or how many characters are close to the top. How does each game stack up? Melee has an extreme difference between top and bottom I notice, but how did say the top half compare?
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
for melee top tier is fox and falco, and they are saaaaay 30 steps ahead of the rest, which high tier is like 20 steps from everything below it
mind you the stairway only has 10 steps o.o
Stairway is an analogy btw...
There's a much smaller difference between Link and Pikachu than the top and bottoms in Melee.. And it seems Brawl too.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Ness is amazing. Are you high? Samus sucks
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Welcome to the smash64 section :o
Superstar
Smash Champion
WiFi != Kaillera. 
Oh wait I used boolean logic. Who cares. :D
What I mean by top to bottom and how many are close to top, well, it's a question that came to my mind after someone was talking about differences in Guilty Gear, how apparently although the top to bottom gap is less in Accent Core, it's harder to beat the top tiers than in #Reload. What he said might not be true, but those two sections of balance are worth noting about.
Hypothetical situation, but let's say the difference between Fox and Pichu in Melee is MUUUUUUUUCH greater than the difference between Metaknight and CFalcon in Brawl. There you'd say Brawl is more balanced. But now let's say that only 3 characters can really compete with Metaknight but 7 characters in Melee can compete equally with Fox. Now which game is more balanced?
Is this what's happened between those two? No, I made it up so it's likely to be false or exaggerated. But when discussing balance it's something to think about. Is balance how well a bottom tier competes with a top tier, or the number/proportion of tournament viable characters?
Oh wait I used boolean logic. Who cares. :D
What I mean by top to bottom and how many are close to top, well, it's a question that came to my mind after someone was talking about differences in Guilty Gear, how apparently although the top to bottom gap is less in Accent Core, it's harder to beat the top tiers than in #Reload. What he said might not be true, but those two sections of balance are worth noting about.
Hypothetical situation, but let's say the difference between Fox and Pichu in Melee is MUUUUUUUUCH greater than the difference between Metaknight and CFalcon in Brawl. There you'd say Brawl is more balanced. But now let's say that only 3 characters can really compete with Metaknight but 7 characters in Melee can compete equally with Fox. Now which game is more balanced?
Is this what's happened between those two? No, I made it up so it's likely to be false or exaggerated. But when discussing balance it's something to think about. Is balance how well a bottom tier competes with a top tier, or the number/proportion of tournament viable characters?
Would love to teach you :D...If I had a Wii
...Yeah I don't have a Wii yet and I'm hopin one my parents get me one for either christmas or somethin...I'm dieing here without brawl but whenever i get the chance to play it with friends I play as much as I can. I'm either gonna have to save up for my own wii and get it that way if I don't get it christmas day
SuPeRbOoM
Smash Master
welcome to the 64 section
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Not that I really know anything about Brawl, but I think it's actually pretty close to how it turns outWiFi != Kaillera.
Oh wait I used boolean logic. Who cares. :D
What I mean by top to bottom and how many are close to top, well, it's a question that came to my mind after someone was talking about differences in Guilty Gear, how apparently although the top to bottom gap is less in Accent Core, it's harder to beat the top tiers than in #Reload. What he said might not be true, but those two sections of balance are worth noting about.
Hypothetical situation, but let's say the difference between Fox and Pichu in Melee is MUUUUUUUUCH greater than the difference between Metaknight and CFalcon in Brawl. There you'd say Brawl is more balanced. But now let's say that only 3 characters can really compete with Metaknight but 7 characters in Melee can compete equally with Fox. Now which game is more balanced?
Is this what's happened between those two? No, I made it up so it's likely to be false or exaggerated. But when discussing balance it's something to think about. Is balance how well a bottom tier competes with a top tier, or the number/proportion of tournament viable characters?
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Everyone BUT smaus has 0-deaths really...
Yoshi's reocovery (dispite bull**** belives) is really BAD, Ftilt sucks D:
He can pressure with DJC but that doesnt help much agesnt a spamming fox..and once Falcon grabs you its over..or atleast it should be
TehBo49
Smash Ace
They both really mean the same thing. Characters are made viable because they can stand a chance against most other characters. If the gap between top & bottom was small, then almost every character would be viable (like SSB64). Or, if the gap was large, only a select few would viable (like MvC2).WiFi != Kaillera.
Oh wait I used boolean logic. Who cares. :D
What I mean by top to bottom and how many are close to top, well, it's a question that came to my mind after someone was talking about differences in Guilty Gear, how apparently although the top to bottom gap is less in Accent Core, it's harder to beat the top tiers than in #Reload. What he said might not be true, but those two sections of balance are worth noting about.
Hypothetical situation, but let's say the difference between Fox and Pichu in Melee is MUUUUUUUUCH greater than the difference between Metaknight and CFalcon in Brawl. There you'd say Brawl is more balanced. But now let's say that only 3 characters can really compete with Metaknight but 7 characters in Melee can compete equally with Fox. Now which game is more balanced?
Is this what's happened between those two? No, I made it up so it's likely to be false or exaggerated. But when discussing balance it's something to think about. Is balance how well a bottom tier competes with a top tier, or the number/proportion of tournament viable characters?
Second that, Yoshi has a lot of potential. Hes hard to master though, thats y people underrate him.
UnF-air
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 32
Yoshi, my main, definitely is nowhere near the bottom. Most people just don't understand his intricacies so they mark him off as worthless. Unreal aerials + DJC = domination. If u wanna test his potential just slide ur thumb from the right C button to bottom C button while holding joystick down and then tilt it to either side and press A (if performed correctly multiple times u get that great 2nd jump sound to overlap). Once u get the hang of it you can basically shuffle around doing F-airs or (I prefer) B-airs while hardly leaving the ground. This, accompanied by quick/powerful smashes and a recovery that makes you basically immune to meteor smashes puts yoshi in the top half if you ask me. (The B moves are situational for the most part but can also be used effectively)
Superstar
Smash Champion
Not really, seems you misunderstood.
If the gap is small, then almost every character would be viable, true. But now let's say the gap is large. How is that gap distributed? Is it all even, or is it clustered?
Let's talk about two hypothetical games, A and B. Now let's say the difference from top tier to bottom tier is equal for both games. But now, let's say that for game A, the top half characters are all 100% equal, and the bottom half goes downwards evenly. And for game B, the bottom half are 100% equal but trashy, and the upper half is all evenly distributed leading to the top tier.
Both would be the same from a top->bottom balance, but from tournament viability standpoint, game A is WAAAAAAAY more balanced than game B.
Sure, it's an extreme scenario, but it helps explain my point. I'm talking about comparing two disbalanced games.
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
dun play keys..its not as easy to DI out of falcon combos on console as it is on this "fake smash" go Isai!
and i didnt say Yoshi is bottom, i think he is low mid...
and no HIS ftilt doesnt suck, Ftilts **** him, when he is off the edge, pressure him into trying to Sweetspot... then ftilt or Dtilt xP
All this is imo, i personaly find yoshi easier to deal with then most other underrated chars...like mario and Samus
Remember i main pika and CF XP
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
Yeah I tend to have a tougher time beating people with Yoshi than with Samus at the moment
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
Samus can be very tricky though, i do believe she is the worst char but not one of my better fights xP
Bair pressure sucks, and she doesn't afraid of anything o.o
Daedatheus
Smash Lord
I'd agree, I just don't have enough skill with Yoshi haha
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
Yoshi IMO is the coolest character in 64, and among the hardest to use at top level. I suck big time with yoshi. But i dont practice much with him
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
i have been practicing my yoshi aswell, but eh still nothing to be proud of..xP
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
Yoshi has :
DJC
shieldbreaker combo (DJC nair spam to either tilt or neutral A)
Parry *epic skill*
Awesome combos
who wouldnt want to main yoshi? I just dont have the time to learn him, and need my n64 hookup to practice yoshi at home, yoshi is impossibly hard on d-pad controller
DJC
shieldbreaker combo (DJC nair spam to either tilt or neutral A)
Parry *epic skill*
Awesome combos
who wouldnt want to main yoshi? I just dont have the time to learn him, and need my n64 hookup to practice yoshi at home, yoshi is impossibly hard on d-pad controller
Surri-Sama
Smash Hero
probably why i suck with him
Dylan_Tnga
Smash Master
You're on dpad now surri?
Good luck lol. Im about as good as I can get with that sh*t setup and I can only play competivily with falcon online.
I dunno adaptors and bull**** are too much worry to setup I dont even know if im gonna keep playing smash.
TehBo49
Smash Ace
I see what you're saying. I would say that balance is the difference between the top & bottom. Balance would be determined by how easy a character is to beat. If each character has roughly the same number of counters, I would call the game balanced. If some characters had few counters while others had many, I would call the game imbalanced.Not really, seems you misunderstood.
If the gap is small, then almost every character would be viable, true. But now let's say the gap is large. How is that gap distributed? Is it all even, or is it clustered?
Let's talk about two hypothetical games, A and B. Now let's say the difference from top tier to bottom tier is equal for both games. But now, let's say that for game A, the top half characters are all 100% equal, and the bottom half goes downwards evenly. And for game B, the bottom half are 100% equal but trashy, and the upper half is all evenly distributed leading to the top tier.
Both would be the same from a top->bottom balance, but from tournament viability standpoint, game A is WAAAAAAAY more balanced than game B.
Sure, it's an extreme scenario, but it helps explain my point. I'm talking about comparing two disbalanced games.
I currently don't know of any game that fits my definition of balanced. I hope I answered your question though.
No, not DI, DJC. You can double-jump cancel out of almost all of falcon's combos.