Wood Man's Treehouse: A Leaf Shield Guide

[AngeloHollow]

Is there anybody from this thread that would actually be willing to try and teach me how to do these sometime? I understand the things that all the techniques are supposed to do, I'm just having difficulties with how to exactly perform them right.

 

[Ramzy]

Is there anybody from this thread that would actually be willing to try and teach me how to do these sometime? I understand the things that all the techniques are supposed to do, I'm just having difficulties with how to exactly perform them right.

I mean, all in all most important thing to take away from here is that you shouldn't dismiss Leaf Shield so easily. Most of the basic things are pretty much like they're called, basic. Do a footstool. Now do it with leaf shield on. Now do it with leaf shield on with an opponent off stage. Also keep in mind there are many cool things that are unfortunately unpractical so don't feel pressured to learn those.

 

[AngeloHollow]

I mean, all in all most important thing to take away from here is that you shouldn't dismiss Leaf Shield so easily. Most of the basic things are pretty much like they're called, basic. Do a footstool. Now do it with leaf shield on. Now do it with leaf shield on with an opponent off stage. Also keep in mind there are many cool things that are unfortunately unpractical so don't feel pressured to learn those.

I've never once dismissed Leaf Shield as an attack at all, I just wasn't quite sure all of its different uses. As for footstooling, I don't know to consistently footstool people like everybody else knows how to do. I don't understand how to pull that off so easily, that's where the difficulty lies. Every footstool I've done to somebody was a complete accident.

 

[Ramzy]

I've never once dismissed Leaf Shield as an attack at all, I just wasn't quite sure all of its different uses. As for footstooling, I don't know to consistently footstool people like everybody else knows how to do. I don't understand how to pull that off so easily, that's where the difficulty lies. Every footstool I've done to somebody was a complete accident.

I wasn't saying you dismissed it, I just meant as a general. To be honest I personally almost never do footstool and if I do it's an accident, like you, I never used it in Brawl either. With this leaf stuff I really should change that though.

 

[Ramzy]

oops. this post was a mistake. hopefully it will be removed.

 

[ChopperDave]

On footstooling, my recommendation is to go into training mode and put a character on "jump," then try footstooling him at various heights. It's one of those things where you just have to get a feel for the timing.

Keep in mind that you can continually tap the jump button near someone and if you're in a position to footstool, you'll do it, even if you've already used up your double jump. Oftentimes I'll miss the timing and actually double jump and then immediately footstool, but still accomplish what I wanted to do.

As for the other stuff, my advice is just to practice the Leaf Shield Short Hop first and foremost. After that, just keep using LS until you have a feel for the timing.

 

[AngeloHollow]

On footstooling, my recommendation is to go into training mode and put a character on "jump," then try footstooling him at various heights. It's one of those things where you just have to get a feel for the timing.

Keep in mind that you can continually tap the jump button near someone and if you're in a position to footstool, you'll do it, even if you've already used up your double jump. Oftentimes I'll miss the timing and actually double jump and then immediately footstool, but still accomplish what I wanted to do.

As for the other stuff, my advice is just to practice the Leaf Shield Short Hop first and foremost. After that, just keep using LS until you have a feel for the timing.

I'll try practicing that later when I get home. Any other tips for practicing how to footstool consistently?

 

[ChopperDave]

I'll try practicing that later when I get home. Any other tips for practicing how to footstool consistently?

That's about it. Learn the positioning in training mode and tap the jump button are the two main tips I've got.

Keep in mind that you can't footstool someone who is in the middle of an attack or a dodge. This is what makes LS so helpful for footstooling--it'll interrupt a lot of attacks, giving you a few frames to footstool.

A great example of this is Captain Falcon's and Ganondorf's UpBs and SideB's. Normally if you try footstooling these guys, the footstool will fail because they'd be in attacking frames and then they'll probably command grab you for major ouchies. With LS up, however, you're able to stuff the attack frames and safely get your footstool off.

 

[AngeloHollow]

That's about it. Learn the positioning in training mode and tap the jump button are the two main tips I've got.

Keep in mind that you can't footstool someone who is in the middle of an attack or a dodge. This is what makes LS so helpful for footstooling--it'll interrupt a lot of attacks, giving you a few frames to footstool.

A great example of this is Captain Falcon's and Ganondorf's UpBs and SideB's. Normally if you try footstooling these guys, the footstool will fail because they'd be in attacking frames and then they'll probably command grab you for major ouchies. With LS up, however, you're able to stuff the attack frames and safely get your footstool off.

I'll be sure to keep that in mind. I was wondering how and why Leafstooling was as effective as it was, and I never quite understood when you were able to foolstool somebody.

Now, what I have done earlier today, was in training mode, I practiced rapidly short hopping so I could consistently pull that off whenever I want. I would go from edge to edge by doing nothing but short hopping. After that, I tried short hopping forward and activating Leaf Shield. After practicing that, I would try to find the correct timing for headshotting.

I would do Leaf Slide to hog edges, but I frankly don't understand how to really do it, so I'll wait to learn that so I can get this other stuff down first.

 

[ChopperDave]

I'll be sure to keep that in mind. I was wondering how and why Leafstooling was as effective as it was, and I never quite understood when you were able to foolstool somebody.

Now, what I have done earlier today, was in training mode, I practiced rapidly short hopping so I could consistently pull that off whenever I want. I would go from edge to edge by doing nothing but short hopping. After that, I tried short hopping forward and activating Leaf Shield. After practicing that, I would try to find the correct timing for headshotting.

I would do Leaf Slide to hog edges, but I frankly don't understand how to really do it, so I'll wait to learn that so I can get this other stuff down first.

You don't actually have to do a true short hop to perform the LS Short Hop. All you have to do is hold down on the control stick and press a jump button immediately followed by B. I find it easiest to roll my thumb from Y to B.

Edge hogging is pretty simple. Just dash off the ledge, and as soon as your guy is off the stage, slam the stick in the opposite direction to turn around and grab the ledge. You can do this with anybody.

You can get to the ledge slightly faster using the Leaf Slide tech, but TBH that's a pretty situational tech and you'll usually be totally fine simply activating LS and running off stage to ledge grab.

 

[AngeloHollow]

You don't actually have to do a true short hop to perform the LS Short Hop. All you have to do is hold down on the control stick and press a jump button immediately followed by B. I find it easiest to roll my thumb from Y to B.

Edge hogging is pretty simple. Just dash off the ledge, and as soon as your guy is off the stage, slam the stick in the opposite direction to turn around and grab the ledge. You can do this with anybody.

You can get to the ledge slightly faster using the Leaf Slide tech, but TBH that's a pretty situational tech and you'll usually be totally fine simply activating LS and running off stage to ledge grab.

I'll keep that in mind then. Thanks for all the help. I'll be sure to get plenty of practice with all of this.

 

[Abortion Doc]

I think this thread ought to be pinned or somehow saved for good. There are so many useful ideas and techniques in this thread!

 

[Erimir]

So just reading this thread makes me think I need to use Leaf Shield more when I play.

But with the patch seemingly making some significant changes to it, definitely interested to hear what you more advanced players think about it now.

 

[ChopperDave]

So just reading this thread makes me think I need to use Leaf Shield more when I play.

But with the patch seemingly making some significant changes to it, definitely interested to hear what you more advanced players think about it now.

The short answer is that the patch made the LS toss much more viable because a) we can now string it into grab and aerial follow ups and b) if we whiff (say because our opponent double jumps over it), we are no longer left with our ***** in our hands and can reliably shield, dodge, or counter hit our opponent's response, or hit them with a follow up attack if they try to run away.

This makes LS toss a valuable mix-up option. Before the patch I rarely tossed LS because keeping it rotating around Mega Man was usually the better option; I generally only tossed it to surprise opponents. Now I can legitimately alternate between keeping LS and tossing it, which makes LS much less predictable and harder to deal with.

I'll probably do a write up of our new LS toss options and add it to the later this week.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Coming at people with a picked up metal blade and leaf shield up is hilarious post patch. throw saw, throw leaves, fire another saw right after. I don't know if it's legitimate tactics or not, but it seems so annoying. lol

 

[Kiyosuki]

Alright after some time with the Wii U version, I've kinda come to the conclusion that this move is actually critical. It's baffling to me that even the few people using him in a tournament setting like tonights' Xanadu never use this move. At this point, I feel like not learning Leaf Shield is like not using a third of this characters' options. It's so useful for so many reasons ranging from:

-Disrupting the offensive flow of your opponent
-disrupting chases if you've been launched
-gimping, footstooling
-the mixups that are now possible post 1.04: having the shield hit THEN launching it point blank which is now fast enough to allow you to follow with a read; stacking it with a picked up sawblade which now thanks to the faster firing gives MM more distance harass AND anti projectile options. Hell I think post launch setups, or setups that have the shield hit in its shield form THEN launch are a good direction for this thread to go next.
-easy buffer into grab

All of the above can be mixed up any way the player sees fit. There have been so many fights I've had online, especially against the speedy offensive fighters everyone's clamoring for now, where I would have been absolutely screwed if it weren't for this move. I'm 100% convinced people not using this move, regardless of their experience, are gimping themselves off of a misconception that it sucks. This move and knowing how to use it is whats going to separate the real Mega Man mains, from...everyone else. I really think it's that important.

 

[AngeloHollow]

Alright after some time with the Wii U version, I've kinda come to the conclusion that this move is actually critical. It's baffling to me that even the few people using him in a tournament setting like tonights' Xanadu never use this move. At this point, I feel like not learning Leaf Shield is like not using a third of this characters' options. It's so useful for so many reasons ranging from:

-Disrupting the offensive flow of your opponent
-disrupting chases if you've been launched
-gimping, footstooling
-the mixups that are now possible post 1.04: having the shield hit THEN launching it point blank which is now fast enough to allow you to follow with a read; stacking it with a picked up sawblade which now thanks to the faster firing gives MM more distance harass AND anti projectile options. Hell I think post launch setups, or setups that have the shield hit in its shield form THEN launch are a good direction for this thread to go next.
-easy buffer into grab

All of the above can be mixed up any way the player sees fit. There have been so many fights I've had online, especially against the speedy offensive fighters everyone's clamoring for now, where I would have been absolutely screwed if it weren't for this move. I'm 100% convinced people not using this move, regardless of their experience, are gimping themselves off of a misconception that it sucks. This move and knowing how to use it is whats going to separate the real Mega Man mains, from...everyone else. I really think it's that important.

MegaMan is a robot of infinite potential. How strong he is is dictated by the player using him. People who play the actual MegaMan games know not to underestimate MegaMan's attacks, and know how strong he is despite what everybody else says about him. All of his attacks are equally critical and important, as they all have their uses, and us MegaMan players know that you have to use the best weapon that suits the current needs of the player according to the situation.

The people that underestimate attacks like Leaf Shield are no better than the Robot Masters from the home series that underestimate MegaMan as a whole. It makes me happy that people are realizing how important Leaf Shield is.

 

[niCkHatHito]

I think the next step here is to take videos of the applicable techniques or try to draw lines to reality/matchups.

(i.e. Ganondorf/Falcon are often low recovering opponents that can be leafshield footstooled. Don't bother trying to leafstool X because their recovery will beat it)

 

[Ramzy]

Since the update and the reduced lag on Leaf Shield, I feel a good thing to do is always summon the leaf shield after latching an opponent with a Crash Bomb because 90% they'll usually attempt to block it or spotdodge in the moment of action and you can toss out a leaf shield, followed by a metal blade and if all is well this actually could break their shield (if they blocked the Crash Bomb and don't spotdodge the leafshield) pretty easily, i pulled it off twice on a buddy during a few games.

 

[Mysteltainn]

Wow, I've used Leaf Shield to help zone and while pummelling, but I've never even considered it for Counters, descent coverage, and foot-stools! This guide is fantastic, thanks for this.

 

[ChopperDave]

After playing around with the cstick on the WiiU version, I have a few new techniques to share:

Crouch Tossing - Some of you may be aware that if you're holding a Metal Blade (or any other item), you can crouch and tap the cstick forward or back to fire off jabs without throwing the MB. Well, this works with Leaf Shield, too. If you have a LS up, crouch and cstick in order to toss the LS before MB. With LS's improved cool down, these projectiles appear to combo into each other when thrown this way. If you do Crouch Tossed LS -> (Glide Tossed) MB -> ftilt/nair, you can get a nice little burst of projectile damage while covering your approach. Pretty neat.

Leaf Shield C-sticking - This is pretty straightforward but worth mentioning: when LS is up, you can control which direction you toss it with the c-stick while retaining momentum. So for example, you can easily jump backward while tossing the LS forward. Makes it a lot easier to do that kind of thing than on the 3DS.

Also, a quick strategic observation: the game meta seems to be moving towards using empty jumps for mind games, and I find LS is pretty handy as a "empty jump plus." If you're going to fake someone out with an empty jump, you might as well fire up a LS while doing so because it will make your boost grab that much harder to avoid or counter. Also, b-reversing or wave bouncing LS can make for a great mind game due to it's momentum canceling properties and the fact that it creates a bunch of hitboxes around you. It's great fun to LS b-reverse out of the way of someone trying to catch me with a usmash, land behind them as the leaves activate, then grab and pummel.

 

[ENKER]

I am new to the terms "b-reversing" and "wave bouncing." I believe I may already do them (wait, aren't they the same thing...?) , but just in case, can you quickly explain how to do them with the Leaf Shield?

 

[ChopperDave]

I am new to the terms "b-reversing" and "wave bouncing." I believe I may already do them (wait, aren't they the same thing...?) , but just in case, can you quickly explain how to do them with the Leaf Shield?

This thread explains it pretty well.

Basically, a turnaround B is when you flick the control stick in the opposite direction of where you are facing, then hit B. Simple.

B-reversing is when you input a b-move while moving forward, then immediately flick the control stick back in the opposite direction. If done correctly, you'll conserve your momentum, but Mega Man will turn around and sort of "bounce" backwards while doing the B move in that direction. You can do this with any of Mega Man's b moves. To do it with his Leaf Shield, hit down b and then immediately flick the control stick in the opposite direction of where you're facing.

Wave bouncing is tricky - you're essentially combining the turnaround B and the b-reverse inputs so that you turn around twice, getting the "bounce backwards" effect from the b-reverse while ending up facing the direction in which you started. It's hard to do consistently unless you have B-moves mapped to your c-stick.

 

[ChopperDave]

Hey, I just figured out another goofy but kind of neat thing about how Leaf Shield interacts with Rush Coil.

If you do that thing I describe in the OP where you use a Leaf Shield Short Hop to cancel the upwards momentum of the second Rush bounce (i.e., trigger LS immediately after bouncing off the spring) it will also cancel the phantom lag! You can walk or dash as soon as your feet touch the ground. Strangely, this doesn't work if you use LS at any other time in the air-- you have to use it to "cancel" the bounce or the phantom lag will still be there.

Incidentally, you can also b reverse or wave bounce the LS activation when "canceling" the Rush Bounce in this way. I see some fun mix-ups coming from this.

 

[ENKER]

This thread explains it pretty well.

Basically, a turnaround B is when you flick the control stick in the opposite direction of where you are facing, then hit B. Simple.

B-reversing is when you input a b-move while moving forward, then immediately flick the control stick back in the opposite direction. If done correctly, you'll conserve your momentum, but Mega Man will turn around and sort of "bounce" backwards while doing the B move in that direction. You can do this with any of Mega Man's b moves. To do it with his Leaf Shield, hit down b and then immediately flick the control stick in the opposite direction of where you're facing.

Wave bouncing is tricky - you're essentially combining the turnaround B and the b-reverse inputs so that you turn around twice, getting the "bounce backwards" effect from the b-reverse while ending up facing the direction in which you started. It's hard to do consistently unless you have B-moves mapped to your c-stick.

I can get that sudden mid air bounce when I do a b reverse LS activation, but when I "wavebounce" its activation I successfully change aerial momentum and maintain forward facing but that sharp bounce doesn't happen. It feels like the momentum cancelling effects of the LS activation is getting in the way of the wavebouncing's normal bounce. Is that a Mega Man limitation we can't get around or can that bounce occur if I preform the tech better?

 

[ChopperDave]

I can get that sudden mid air bounce when I do a b reverse LS activation, but when I "wavebounce" its activation I successfully change aerial momentum and maintain forward facing but that sharp bounce doesn't happen. It feels like the momentum cancelling effects of the LS activation is getting in the way of the wavebouncing's normal bounce. Is that a Mega Man limitation we can't get around or can that bounce occur if I preform the tech better?

Possibly. I can test this later. We definitely get the bounce off of b reversing Leaf Shield, though, so we should theoretically get the same off a wave bounce.

IMO there's really no reason to wave bounce over b reversing though. It's not actually any better than b-reversing when it comes to the momentum shift, and LS doesn't really have a preference as to which way we're facing. Wave bouncing is more useful for something like Crash Bomber or Danger Wrap because it lets you bounce backwards while still firing forwards.

 

[ENKER]

I hear ya. Thanks for humoring me! I look forward to what you figure out.

I like wave bouncing crash bomb, but I think I like my c stick for tilts, like the Mega Upper more so.

 

[ChopperDave]

Wave bouncing Leaf Shield is definitely possible and you get the same bounce as you do with b reversing. I can do it on my 3DS in training mode at 1/4 and 1/2 speed. My feeble human fingers are too slow to consistently pull it off at normal speed though.

 

[Empulsion]

Thank you very much for sharing! I have a lot of practice to do.

 

[ChopperDave]

One last thing on b-reversing and wave bouncing! You can actually do it while tossing the Leaf Shield as well.

I think with judicious use of b-reversing and Leaf Shield Short Hop and c-stick tossing, you can make your movement very unpredictable. Given MM's nice air speed, using LS in this way can make for good mix-ups and head fakes.

I'll try to update the OP with this new stuff at some point soon.

 

[CopShowGuy]

After playing around with the cstick on the WiiU version, I have a few new techniques to share:

Crouch Tossing - Some of you may be aware that if you're holding a Metal Blade (or any other item), you can crouch and tap the cstick forward or back to fire off jabs without throwing the MB. Well, this works with Leaf Shield, too. If you have a LS up, crouch and cstick in order to toss the LS before MB. With LS's improved cool down, these projectiles appear to combo into each other when thrown this way. If you do Crouch Tossed LS -> (Glide Tossed) MB -> ftilt/nair, you can get a nice little burst of projectile damage while covering your approach. Pretty neat.

This is unnecessary though. You can just press the special attack button again to throw the shield.

 

[ChopperDave]

This is unnecessary though. You can just press the special attack button again to throw the shield.

Oh, haha! Derp. I totally forgot about that.

 

[AngeloHollow]

Looks like I have more Leaf Shield stuff to learn. ^^ Always excited to see what new things you discover, Dave.

Also, CopShowGuy, I didn't know you also came here. Remember me and our mirror match?

 

[ChopperDave]

Updated the OP again. Here are the highlights:

1) Added in a discussion of b-reversing and wavebouncing, and how using these techniques on both LS activation and LS toss can make for good mixups and mindgames.

2) Filtered in discussion of fun things we can do with the new and improved Leaf Shield toss of v1.04, including one of my new favorite strings, Leaf Shield toss -> Metal Blade (item) toss -> fsmash.

3) Added some talk about the new things we can do with the c-stick on the WiiU version.

4) Edited the discussions around Skull Barrier and Plant Barrier. For the record, I still think Skull Barrier kind of sucks. I've been waffling on Plant Barrier, but at the end of the day I still think I prefer Leaf Shield. Plant Barrier has the slower start-up time, doesn't seem to last as long (though maybe that's just a side effect of its slower start-up), doesn't travel as far when thrown, and has lower knockback (and though I haven't yet confirmed this, I think it has less hitstun). For those negatives, you get an attack that's slightly more damaging, slightly better at actually shielding you from stuff, and arguably makes Leafstool easier to consistently pull off. Not sure if that trade-off is worth it to me, but it may be to some of you!

 

[CopShowGuy]

Leaf Shield's alternatives are really not alternatives that I want to pick. Skull Barrier is too slow to act as an actual reflector (for the record, it does do damage when thrown). Plant Barrier is good in that the petals don't disappear, but the option to actually throw the shield a distance is too valuable to give up.

Also, CopShowGuy, I didn't know you also came here. Remember me and our mirror match?

From GameFAQs? Yeah! I recently signed up here.

 

[AngeloHollow]

Leaf Shield's alternatives are really not alternatives that I want to pick. Skull Barrier is too slow to act as an actual reflector (for the record, it does do damage when thrown). Plant Barrier is good in that the petals don't disappear, but the option to actually throw the shield a distance is too valuable to give up.


From GameFAQs? Yeah! I recently signed up here.

I originally thought Skull Barrier was going to be a great tool, but as I kept using it, I learned that it's kind of really bad because it doesn't operate the same as some of the other reflectors do, and during the time it's around MegaMan, he's unable to act if he's in some serious trouble, outsideof throwing the barrier.

I do remember making a damage record, and the time length of how last all the down B moves last (although, I started with the timer once the down B moves started spinning, not during immediate activation).

 

[digiholic]

Skull Barrier isn't about actually reflecting, it's about making it impossible for the opponent to use projectiles to stop your approach. It's valuable against fighters that can out-zone Mega Man but not out-brawl him, like Samus and ROB.

 

[AnchorTea]

I find it funny how you used the green pallete when using Mega Man, that color is the color when Mega Man equips leaf shield back in Mega Man 2, and you abuse Leaf Shield.

Great guide though! Looks like Leaf Shield just entered god tier...

 

[Deleted member]

I actually prefer the Plant Barrier (sometimes skull barrier depending on the opponent) because it's stronger than the Leaf Shield and it's especially effective if used while grabbing an opponent. (I know it has really short range but I pretty much only use it in conjunction with grabs)

 

[warionumbah2]

I've been using this only to cover my landings then punish grab happy characters(ZSS,Falcon,Kirby,Mario) with a grab. After reading this i may take the advice on using leaf shield AFTER latching a crash bomb on my opponent.

People on FG tend to hold their shield and i do nothing, after reading your thread i feel as if i can take my MM to the next stage. TY.