Wolf's safe moves.

[ArcPoint]

This is where we discuss Wolf's "safe" moves, what they are, and how they're considered safe.

With that, discuss.

 

[§witch]

Well spaced (obviously) bair and fair. Maybe a perfectly spaced ftilt, hitting with the tip of dtilt? Dsmash.

 

[ArcPoint]

Dsmash against the majority of top tier isn't safe. I just can't think of how Falco can punish him for it... I think a roll behind jab? I dunno. People can roll behind you before you can shield, so yeah.

 

[§witch]

His ftilt maybe work...I know I've started using falco's ftilt alot lately. I know his ftilt clanks with wolf's dsmash though.

 

[ArcPoint]

My concern isn't clanking =P I'm just wondering if he can lower his shield fast enough...

 

[§witch]

I really had nothing to say; therefore popped that in there for no reason. Dsmash pushes you really far, I think snake's ftilt is one of the few moves that can punish it. Falco's roll is too slow to do the roll jab thing you said.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

F-tilt is pretty hard to punish if its spaced right. D-smash is really fast so it can be hardish to punish.

Blaster is a pretty safe move(obviously) if your far away.

 

[stevp]

well one move that is very safe is shine. u can shine very quickly and it comes out so fast, its tough for an opponent to read, unless u spam it. id call shine a safe move. i would also agree, obviously the blaster is a safe move and and fair, especially after a side grab.

 

[ArcPoint]

No, shine is NOT safe. Shorthopped, fastfalled, I'd even argue full hopped. It is NOT safe. If you hit a shield then you WILL get punished (Unless you full hop it, but then you really don't get any benefit from hitting a shield)

And what difference does a side grab make on on a Fair? I'm confused on that...

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Shine isnt safe. It has ending lag and can be punished after words if they shield it.

Safe moves are like ones with big range and little lag.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Shine isn't safe at all. IMO + in order (@max range of course):

Bair > Ftilt > Fair > Dsmash > Dtilt

 

[§witch]

I think fair is safer than ftilt though. Simply because of how far you can after DI'ing away.

 

[stevp]

well i nvr get punished with shine and i use it plenty especially when in the air and ur opponent is trying to use aerials. its safe for me, at least the way i use it. and a side grab makes a difference because if u just fair u have the chance of messing up and getting lag hitting the ground so if they shield ull get punished. but after a side grab, even if u make a mistake ull hit the ground the same time same lag, roughly and have the opportunity to save urself.

 

[Ishiey]

If you could DI during shine, it would be safe (and even more amazing).

Bair is probably the safest, or maybe tied with the 2nd hit of ftilt, but wins by default because of the difficulty of guaranteeing a 2nd hit only ftilt. Fair is also pretty safe. Dsmash IMO is a safe move, even though it can be punished by some characters. Dtilt, meh... it's safe enough, but not exactly a safe move. Blaster at full range is safe.

Arc, didn't you make a thread just like this before? This seems to be a big thing of yours. I'll ask a friend to help me test how safe dsmash is next chance I get though, and I'll put the results up here.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned Jab? That's pretty safe, as long as you use it at the right range. Fully spaced Bair and Fair are the safest.

 

[stevp]

thats true. i forgot about jab. i hardly ever use it in matches but it is fairly safe. haha. have u all ever just held it down against somebody bad and it will just keep going till they run into it and it hits them. its pretty funny. if ur ever playing a scrub try it. lol.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Must...resist...urge...to...flame...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I would think that the f-smash would be safe to use, but the attack does have its drawbacks.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I would think that the f-smash would be safe to use, but the attack does have its drawbacks.

Fsmash:

Pros:

Quick start up time
Amazing range
Good damage
Great punisher
Pretty good kill move

Cons:

Lots of ending lag
Hits can be DI'ed out of


Moves with lots of ending lag aren't safe.

 

[Kenrawr]

Can someone tell me what exactly is a safe move supposed to be?

It's all situational imo...

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Can someone tell me what exactly is a safe move supposed to be?

It's all situational imo...

Its a move with a lot of range and little lag so you can attack the opponent without being counterattacked/shieldgrabbed and whatnot. Its essentially a move that is "safe" to use because the opponent wont really be able to punish you much if you use it correctly.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Spaced SH Bair
Spaced tilts
Non-stupid blaster
Spaced Fair
Spaced Dsmash (good range and knockback on shield)

I've noticed that people tend to have an extremely tough time punishing the above.

I also am able to land right behind people with a last second Nair into any offensive/defensive option.

And yeah, first of jab is really good. If they shield it, grab them or do something else, like retreating SH Fair.

 

[stevp]

y r u gonig to flame me solid????

 

[jehonaker]

Wouldn't Wolf Flash be considered safe?
It does have some ending lag, but you usually are far enough away that you won't get hit, even if they shield the attack.

It is cumbersome and awkward to pull out, though I doubt the move is easy to punish if you use it carefully.

 

[Ishiey]

No. Wolf flash is ANYTHING but safe, especially if you want to actually hit someone with it.

 

[Kenrawr]

Its a move with a lot of range and little lag so you can attack the opponent without being counterattacked/shieldgrabbed and whatnot. Its essentially a move that is "safe" to use because the opponent wont really be able to punish you much if you use it correctly.

I knew that already. Nevermind guess what I really meant was missed.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

I personally like the Jab combo since its quick and has like no lag on it. Wolf's Smashes come out pretty fast but all have enough ending lag for you to get punished if you get spot-dodged or shielded. A well spaced F-Tilt is a safe move in my opinion also since it pokes the shield and pushes the opponent back if it hits the shield.

 

[Grimga]

Well reflector is great for chaining and stopping your enemy best in their tracks, also the best recovery is probaly side-b. Up-b is great when getting up like when ur under a diagonal ledge like smashville and battlefield.

 

[ElPadrino]

Err, I'm not sure if ANYONE but me uses this; but sometimes when recovering from above I find good edgeguarders like ROB, MK and DDD to hit me back out of the stage, so I sometimes Fire Wolf diagonal downwards to grab the edge, and Wolf has plenty of options once he grabs the edge. I do this VERY occasionally, but I find it actually confuses the opponent and can set you up for a counter attack.

Anyway, I have an incredible hard time spacing Ftilt correctly, especially since it depends also on the character hurtbox.

Now for my real contribution, why has no one mentioned Sliding Up Smash?
I can't think of a single time I've been punished for it, you can either hit with it, bypass you opponent or actually grow short of dstance.

Out of all 3 possible outcomes only the last can be punished, and it isn't exactly easy since Upsmash has IASA frames.

If you use it sparingly and intelligently you'll catch your opponent off guard, and most likely hit with it.

Not mentioning all pros Sliding Upsmash has: Great damage, absurd range, good speed (because you initiated before reaching the opponent) good vertical knockback (rarely an incredible horizontal knockback), etc.

So wile DACUS isn't remotly as safe as Spaced Bair or Fair, it's a nice option to take into account.

y r u gonig to flame me solid????

I can think of two reasons.

1) Your pittyfull grammar.
2) You're actually not contributing in the thread at all.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

I think a pro with wolf would say his bair and fair. His fair auto-cancels from a short hop and his bair is lagless, And they both have enough range to prevent sheild grabbing. Against ranged grabbers, the lagless landing of both can just lead into a sidestep dodge.

 

[KoSa!]

When I am spacing moves with wolf, I mix up bairs, ftilts, and blasters. The ftilt is used when they attempt to rush in and then I just restart. Jab, and reflector are also good moves not really to space but are for the most part safe moves.

 

[Loki de Thorbald]

D tilt is the safest move on the ground. At least, it is the fastest. It's a shame it isn't very strong, but you can challenge almost every top character with it.

Jab isn't very safe I think, can easily be shield grabbed unfortunatly

 

[ArcPoint]

They try to shieldgrab, you just finish the combo, they get hit.

In my opinion a safe move is something that can't be punished on reaction. If they're anticipating the move... then yeah, expect to get punished.

 

[Loki de Thorbald]

They try to shieldgrab, you just finish the combo, they get hit.

If the opponent wait you finish the combo then you are screwed. This is the purpose of jab grab. But jab grab is slow so it can also be countered. Whatever your choice is, jab with or without mix up, it may be punishable. Jab is not this safe, it has lots of possibility, all can be countered so I'd not call this move safe, because wolf has way safer moves: D tilt for instance is better than jab.

Plus depending on the opponent, wolf's jab is more or less reliable:
DDD's spotdodge/chain can screw wolf's jab.
MK's punish moves are faster than jab.

 

[xINiiTrOI]

It's hard to say, because any moved that is spaced well is potentially unpunishable. SH Bairs with retreating aerials is very hard to punish unless playing D3 or DK