Wolf on the tourney scene

[The_Altrox]

I used to be a Falco main, since the character himself seemed amazing. But I dropped him because he felt uncomfortable to use. I started using Wolf, and my game improved, since he felt much smoother to Brawl with. But how well can he be on the tourney scene? I have seen some amazing Wolf vs. Snake battles online, but little else. With all the DDD's, G&Ws, Falco's and MK's out there, do I stand a viable chance in a tourney if I up my skill?
and what characters to watch out for? (I also main Olimar, PT, and I'm training Kirby/Jiggles if that helps.)

 

[DKKountry]

I don't know a lot of Wolf players. Tope has an excellent Wolf. Look some of his matches up on youtube or sumin.

 

[Ishiey]

You stand a chance IMO, but you'll really need to have your skill up there. Watch out for falco, mk, pikachu, and sheik in the beginning. Once you have your spacing almost perfected, those won't be so bad, and you can start concentrating a lot more on DeDeDe, wolf's worst matchup.

 

[nocturne55]

Watch JJ and Omniswell's videos. They're excellent.

Wolf is tricky to get used to, but **** fun to play as. He's tournament viable, but, like most mid/low tier characters, you'd better know your ****.

 

[Kudou-kun]

wolf is a character that can win tourneys. i've been to tourneys around IA and MN where Chexr (before i heard that he quit brawl) have won. in the wolf video thread, there are vids of chexr playin my friend smeesh in the grand finals and chexr just 3-0 in the grand finals. u just have to kno ur stuff when playing him, and how to counterpick well.

 

[choice_brawler]

wolf can beat all those, but DDD will suck. definitely tourney viable and high tier potential imo. olimar alone would cover the bad match ups for wolf i think, but it doesnt hurt to have the others i guess.

 

[Sean²]

He's decently viable as long as you have 1-2 secondaries to cover the godawful matchups.

 

[teekay]

You might be able to win smaller tournies, but a big one, with top names there? No. Wolf just isn't viable for winning those tournies.

He's decently viable as long as you have 1-2 secondaries to cover the godawful matchups.

Which means really you might as well just main the other character, because Wolf's bad matchups are all over the place at tournies. He has a disadvantage against basically the whole top and high tier. This is why we never see him winning major tournaments. He will always get killed by top Meta Knight, Snake, Falco, DDD, and G&W players.

I'm not saying you shouldn't try him. Playing a mid character is fun and if you can get far in the tournament you'll earn a lot of respect from people. But if your intention is genuinely to WIN, and to win at a big tournament with big names, you should not adopt Wolf.

 

[The_Altrox]

I'm not saying you shouldn't try him. Playing a mid character is fun and if you can get far in the tournament you'll earn a lot of respect from people. But if your intention is genuinely to WIN, and to win at a big tournament with big names, you should not adopt Wolf.

That's why I have Olimar and possibly Kirby I guess

 

[ArcPoint]

Yeah, don't expect to win going all Wolf...

I think that if you were smart enough you could beat high level Metaknight, Snake, and Game and Watch players.

Falco = 180% free per match.

DDD = Lol infinite/chaingrab

Pikachu = lol chaingrab.

Sheik...Ftilt Lock.

Those are the only people that really "hard counter" Wolf. The rest are beatable, just play smarter. Usually among the top, everyone knows who everyone plays... so yeah, get a high tier secondary >_> I'm currently picking up Snake ^_^

 

[choice_brawler]

. He will always get killed by top Meta Knight, Snake, Falco, DDD, and G&W players.

Lucien's wolf went toe to toe with DSF's snake and meep's snake too. He ***** jem's falco at bio. These match ups are not impossible. I go wolf against snake and its fine. JJ wolf took a match off of Ally's Snake, if that doesnt prove that wolf snake is doable, i dont know what does. Wolf on MK isnt bad cuz wolf is decently heavy, just avoid early gimps, Omniswell's performance proves that. I deal with wolf vs GaW pretty often and its not that bad.

DDD and Pikachu are really difficult match ups but im sure its still doable. Wolf is tourney viable.

Most everyone has a secondary character, I'd much rather play pikachu vs DDD than wolf vs DDD. Top tier does not **** wolf, but its definitely not easy match ups across the board. Only MK has that goin for him.

 

[castorpollux]

I feel wolf beats G&W. Wolf can punish game and watch better than most characters

 

[kailo34ce]

i also feel wolf can beat gaw for one sole reason...actually its prolly what you were thinking of castor,his grab animation.

if you can bait grabs on gaw you can get free smashes i do that vs hylian,just improperly space a bair or something.anyway

i dont suggest using wolf like mernadi said bad matchups

heres the thing..

he does do good on any CP stages so like basically if you go vs a rob or an mk there are like 4 stages where you will be destroyed.

also snake can abuse your recovery like keep you off the stage in full control,no joke

sheiks tlit lock is just a pain same as pikachu

kirby CG pluz dair to fsmash at like 90%

falco is fightable but he still gets 60 or you have to let him get about 40 before you can even fight him
each facken stock

ddd=impossible

mk i dont want to discuss beacause no wolf can beat a GOOD mk.

he cant gimp chars like marth which makes it really annoying to fight marth when he cant be gimped

diddy i feel personally is his 3rd hardest matchup after ddd and and mk,HARD when the diddy is good

lucario is a big pain when he can outroll your smashes and if your fair is deteriorated you have to get a utilt to ko quick because of course he lives forever

olimar hehe peice of cake

snake again i feel just outclasses wolf in every way,his recovery is better his range is better his speed is better his KO power is better and his stage control is better...just an uphill battle

pit is like really annoying for the same reason as lucario

gaw is beatable but he can CP you hard on stages

dk can outspace and out KO you but idk too much of the matchup i played cyphus back in november but it was even so idk

icies can srsly wreck you because they have solo buffer grab to like 75%ish even if you can survive it still lets them resynch while soloing you which puts them in CG position..but idk

wario is scary to me i play good ones like DMG and phantomx and i srsly have to get a gimp to be able to do well simply from the fact that wolfs reliable kill moves are either outclassed or just inefficient compared to warios plus his abiliy to fair gimp

tlink ,you gotta just be patient and bait the air dodge and space the zair imo

luigi i dont know and i doubt many people do

zss just watch the ko moves and it shouldnt be too difficult,good wolf matchups are hard to find

ike is all about spamming and spacing hes pretty straightforward

peach has control over you but from playing as peach and disuccing it seems lasers can outcamp her making it pretty decent or at least easier than some of those matchups

fox is annoying because of wolfs weight geez...they almost dont even have to work for the KO..you gotta just be patient..cuz dair usmash sucks...

bowser i dont know i assume its harder than i think

same for zelda ,just thinking about her dsmash scares me

out of the bottom 2 tiers the only one i know really well is samus and she can get constant combos on you at any percent like potential 30 percent everytime she touches you and her fsmash can ko at like ****en 130 on most stages.not to mention she can just plank and its gg

thats the basis of what i know and it should ive you an idea.

my final vote is no..

unless its an olimar or possibly a lucario or falco on a stage like brinstar where he cant CG i vote never use wolfy...

solely because i think he has no good matchups in the high tier
cya

 

[ArcPoint]

I guess that's the life of a mid tier, uphill battles vs top. Hopefully I main someone better one day

 

[castorpollux]

diddy 3rd hardest match-up? LOL no way. It's one of my most favorite match ups, and I've played good diddy kongs. Falco is fightable from the very beginning. Wolf can abuse snake's ****ty airgame. Yes no wolf right now can beat dojo right now, but even if the best wolf mains switched characters, they would STILL lose to dojo. It's not wolf, it's the player. Icys don't destroy wolf.

 

[choice_brawler]

diddy 3rd hardest match-up? LOL no way. It's one of my most favorite match ups, and I've played good diddy kongs.

agreed. diddy has such a hard time against wolf i feel. he has a hard time killing. his banana game gets is hindered by lazor an reflector. wolf out ranges diddy. i play good diddy's pretty frequently and i feel its wolf's advantage. he just doesnt live long enough against wolf. and bananas allow for wolf to get easy kills: glide toss dsmash? throw banana DACUS? jump, throw banana downwards in front of diddy and smash behind him into it? seriously wolf has a great banana game. and if they just stop using bananas its all the easier.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

diddy 3rd hardest match-up? LOL no way. It's one of my most favorite match ups, and I've played good diddy kongs.

Item boosting for the win. One of the only chances to use it.

One thing I know about match up concerning G&W is that it's not so bad, at least from what I have in tourney experience. I think Snake should be even, but at the same time, you can't slip up (which is basically the idea with even matches). Since he's high tier, that makes it all the more reason to keep your head in the game.

I don't know what to say about Metaknight... >_> He's my backup, I guess...

 

[Turbo Ether]

diddy 3rd hardest match-up? LOL no way. It's one of my most favorite match ups, and I've played good diddy kongs. Falco is fightable from the very beginning. Wolf can abuse snake's ****ty airgame. Yes no wolf right now can beat dojo right now, but even if the best wolf mains switched characters, they would STILL lose to dojo. It's not wolf, it's the player. Icys don't destroy wolf.

Again, I agree with this man.

 

[ArcPoint]

It's only one of your most favorite matchups cuz you play it so often =P Like I'm decently comfortable with the Snake matchup because I play it so often.

 

[castorpollux]

It's only one of your most favorite matchups cuz you play it so often =P Like I'm decently comfortable with the Snake matchup because I play it so often.

If u utilized all of wolf's banana combos, then it would be ur favorite match up as well

 

[Semifer]

Could you tell us some banana comobs, castor?
I know these: Dacit to Dsmash, Dacit to grab and regular Banana throw to Dacus, not very much, but I think these are the most important uses =/.

 

[kailo34ce]

dont talk down to me castor im not like the rest of these people -_-



just saying...if you think nanerz is good you have no idea what gnes and fliphop are..

ill just assume its skill>matchup

point is the diddys i fight are better than the diddys you fight casty my boy

i dont know what ur saying bout fighting falco at 0....
ima ignore it..

snake...

dude snake is number 2 on the tier list for a reason and wolf has no advantage on him except maybe the laser which is pretty useless cuz perfect shield into ftilt..

>_>

i know what im talking about...

cept maybe iddy ill give you that one but i will say because this isnt opinion this is fact,i fight better diddys than you oh and btw

dojo knows he isnt good,so at the same time,its the character not the player

 

[castorpollux]

Could you tell us some banana comobs, castor?
I know these: Dacit to Dsmash, Dacit to grab and regular Banana throw to Dacus, not very much, but I think these are the most important uses =/.

U pretty much got it covered cept for the regular banana throw to dacus one. U have to glidetoss or jump cancel item throw the banana because the regular banana throw has too much lag and it wont be a true combo.

U can actually do dacit -> anything as long as the banana hits. If the banana is shielded, grab instead.

@ kalo

1) I'm not talking down to you. I'm just stating my opinions
2) You are talking down to everyone else on the boards, and you already assume you are better than them when you haven't even seen them play.

Diddy Kong: It is absolutely not skill > matchup. Wolf has an advantage over diddy kong. Diddy Kong has such a hard time killing wolf while wolf doesn't have any trouble dealing damage or finishing diddy kong. Wolf can also gimp a diddy kong a lot easier than diddy kong can gimp a wolf. So while diddy kong has to do at LEAST 550% to win a match against wolf, Wolf only has to do at MOST 450% to diddy kong to win.

Fighting falco at 0 is fine. If you are careful, u will be very difficult to grab, and even if you do get grabbed, teching the chainthrow -> spike is something all top wolfs should learn to do anyways. It isn't hard.

I agree that Snake has an advantage over wolf, but it's not like he absolutely ***** wolf. Wolf has an advantage over snake when it comes to their air games. THat is all I said. Wolf is also really good at punishing landing which happens to be snake's biggest weakness. Wolf also has a lot of moves that hits him upwards like AAA, fair, and don't forget wolf's bthrow and uthrow. If wolf is below snake in the air, none of snake's aerials trumps wolf's uair. Snake does have the advantage I feel, but wolf does has his weapons against snakes

 

[Turbo Ether]

Imo, the most troublesome characters for Wolf are MK, DDD, and possibly Sheik, and Pikachu now I guess. MK is just a better character, and the other three can punish you very badly if you slip up. If my spacing is on point, DDD has a very hard time getting grabs, for example. I think with mastery of these matchups, Wolf can win.

I feel comfortable with Wolf in tournament, because he's amazingly mobile and good at outspacing gay things.

 

[kailo34ce]

least my region isnt the second worst in the country castor >_>.

oh thats right,my states ranked number 1 even by the east coast guys

 

[nocturne55]

least my region isnt the second worst in the country castor >_>.

oh thats right,my states ranked number 1 even by the east coast guys

protip: no one cares about you

 

[rvkevin]

least my region isnt the second worst in the country castor >_>.

oh thats right,my states ranked number 1 even by the east coast guys

Thats kind of arrogant to say considering NJ placed 1 and 3 in singles and 1, 2, and 3 in Doubles at COT4...and I doubt they'd consider TX to be above them. Do you have any videos of you vs. Gnes/FlipHop, I'm curious of how other Wolf's fight against Diddy's...

 

[The_Altrox]

issue: I fight decent MKs with Wolf and do fine. I've never faced a good MK with Wolf.
And Olimar vs. Mk is hard too. maybe i'll use Kirby?
I might pick up bowser again. he's actually decent vs. mk

 

[Sesshomuronay]

ill just assume its skill>matchup

point is the diddys i fight are better than the diddys you fight casty my boy

i dont know what ur saying bout fighting falco at 0....
ima ignore it..

snake...

dude snake is number 2 on the tier list for a reason and wolf has no advantage on him except maybe the laser which is pretty useless cuz perfect shield into ftilt..

>_>

i know what im talking about...

I actually agree with you, snake probably does have an advantage over wolf.


And skill does indeed > matchup. But if both players have skill than advantages/disadvantages are shown.

And you can fight falcos easily if you know how to do the tech thingy after the chainspike.

 

[Ishiey]

*ALERT: METAMINDGAMES COMING*

But really. The tech works, but if they just don't spike you, you'll fair/AD into a position that's almost as bad and the falco can hog you. So, when they try to CG > spie you, be like "OH I'M SO PRO, WATCH ME TECH THIS", then they'll be like "Lol no spike for u" thinking you'll fall to your doom in lag, but then you're all like "TRAP CARD" and just... don't die... yeah.

Doesn't always work, you need to make sure your opponent knows wolf will fall to his death otherwise, is intelligent enough to pick up on what you said and exploit it, and doesn't think you're intelligent enough to counter/trick them.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

chaingrab mindgamez

 

[castorpollux]

*ALERT: METAMINDGAMES COMING*

But really. The tech works, but if they just don't spike you, you'll fair/AD into a position that's almost as bad and the falco can hog you. So, when they try to CG > spie you, be like "OH I'M SO PRO, WATCH ME TECH THIS", then they'll be like "Lol no spike for u" thinking you'll fall to your doom in lag, but then you're all like "TRAP CARD" and just... don't die... yeah.

Doesn't always work, you need to make sure your opponent knows wolf will fall to his death otherwise, is intelligent enough to pick up on what you said and exploit it, and doesn't think you're intelligent enough to counter/trick them.

I use quarter circle DI instead of smash DI to get out of the chain spike. It's a better method caz u wont fair out of habit and die like you said.

least my region isnt the second worst in the country castor >_>.

oh thats right,my states ranked number 1 even by the east coast guys

The atlantic north is the 2nd worst region in the country? Wow

I've met people from the South region at COT4. Lee Martin, Dojo, Le_thien, and Hylian were all pretty cool guys. They were chill, friendly, and never talked as much trash as you do.

I don't get why u always tell me that Dojo sucks and that you always '****' Hylian while ur name is nowhere to be found on the texas PR (not even in honorable mentions). The only videos of your wolf vs any of them consists of you getting 3 stocked by Roy_r.

Hence, when you say wolf vs diddy is a terrible match-up for wolf, why should I take your word for it? Just because you get ***** by diddys doesn't automatically mean diddy has an advantage over wolf. Then to defend yourself, you discredit me by saying that Le_Thien, nanerz, and other diddys I've played suck and therefore my opinions of wolf vs diddy are invalid? Riiiiiiiiiiiiighhhht

 

[Ishiey]

You win again, Castor. It could still work if they think you use smash DI though. Quarter circle DI > Smash DI.

 

[nocturne55]

Can someone elaborate on what you're talking about? (DI/Falco CG)

 

[castorpollux]

Can someone elaborate on what you're talking about? (DI/Falco CG)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFgf2EKYB4g

 

[The_Altrox]

'nother issue: approaching MK in the air. Wolf has great air moves to kill with, but I can never make a good approach to an air-born MK

 

[teekay]

Lucien's wolf went toe to toe with DSF's snake and meep's snake too. He ***** jem's falco at bio. These match ups are not impossible. I go wolf against snake and its fine. JJ wolf took a match off of Ally's Snake, if that doesnt prove that wolf snake is doable, i dont know what does. Wolf on MK isnt bad cuz wolf is decently heavy, just avoid early gimps, Omniswell's performance proves that. I deal with wolf vs GaW pretty often and its not that bad.

DDD and Pikachu are really difficult match ups but im sure its still doable. Wolf is tourney viable.

Most everyone has a secondary character, I'd much rather play pikachu vs DDD than wolf vs DDD. Top tier does not **** wolf, but its definitely not easy match ups across the board. Only MK has that goin for him.

People always reply with stuff like this. You're completely missing the point.

Lucien is probably the BEST Wolf player there has been in this game. The fact that he was able to perform admirably against good Snake players shouldn't be that surprising. He's a truly fantastic Brawl player. He could play any number of disadvantaged matchups, even against really good players, and perform surprisingly well.

He "*****" Jem's Falco, but then lost to SK92's--not by that much though! I think a lot of people would agree that he actually, for the most part, played BETTER than SK92 during that match, but the overwhelming disadvantage he was faced with sealed his fate. He did not win the tournament. Yes, these matches CAN be won by Wolf--and like I said, I completely encourage people to main Wolf and try to win them. It's a noble cause and it's extremely fun to see players like Lucien take Wolf as far as he can go and really kick *** with him. It's most definitely something to aspire to.

What I'm saying is that tournament that Lucien played in is the perfect example to prove my point. Despite how well Lucien did, he didn't win. He didn't win because he was up against equally good players using characters that are just flat out better. Because he had a disadvantage in a great deal of his matchups. That's just how it goes when you play Wolf.

 

[castorpollux]

People always reply with stuff like this. You're completely missing the point.

Lucien is probably the BEST Wolf player there has been in this game. The fact that he was able to perform admirably against good Snake players shouldn't be that surprising. He's a truly fantastic Brawl player. He could play any number of disadvantaged matchups, even against really good players, and perform surprisingly well.

He "*****" Jem's Falco, but then lost to SK92's--not by that much though! I think a lot of people would agree that he actually, for the most part, played BETTER than SK92 during that match, but the overwhelming disadvantage he was faced with sealed his fate. He did not win the tournament. Yes, these matches CAN be won by Wolf--and like I said, I completely encourage people to main Wolf and try to win them. It's a noble cause and it's extremely fun to see players like Lucien take Wolf as far as he can go and really kick *** with him. It's most definitely something to aspire to.

What I'm saying is that tournament that Lucien played in is the perfect example to prove my point. Despite how well Lucien did, he didn't win. He didn't win because he was up against equally good players using characters that are just flat out better. Because he had a disadvantage in a great deal of his matchups. That's just how it goes when you play Wolf.

Lucien lost to sk92 before people found out u can tech falco's chain spike. And yeah I agree, Lucien is a beast

 

[Turbo Ether]

least my region isnt the second worst in the country castor >_>.

oh thats right,my states ranked number 1 even by the east coast guys

This is false, actually. I mean, Texas has some really talented players, but those actual notable players are cool and humble from what i've seen/heard. Unlike you, where you have to be a **** in every single thread for no reason.

---

Also, Lucien didn't just camp 'til 40% to avoid the chain spike. I'm curious if Wolves should play lamer, like how Warios have resorted to air camping to resolve certain matchups, which apparently is a very good tactic.

 

[castorpollux]

This is false, actually. I mean, Texas has some really talented players, but those actual notable players are cool and humble from what i've seen/heard. Unlike you, where you have to be a **** in every single thread for no reason.

---

Also, Lucien didn't just camp 'til 40% to avoid the chain spike. I'm curious if Wolves should play lamer, like how Warios have resorted to air camping to resolve certain matchups, which apparently is a very good tactic.

The point of Wario aircamping is to buy time so that his waft is fully charged. Wolf unfortunately doesn't have a fart to take advantage of.

When I face falcos, I just fight in a way so that the only way they punish me is anything but a grab. I fight this way until 40%. The most important thing to remember when fighting from 0-40% is to be in the air a lot, and when u land, make sure u are either
1) out of range of the grab
2) behind them