Vect0r
Smash Journeyman
I mean, what can Fox do better than Wolf? Just name something.
200
Happy 200 posts for me =D
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Happy 200 posts for me =D
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Wolf is better than Fox?
- Thread starter Vect0r
- Start date
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Stealth309
Smash Apprentice
Shine? Idk, Fox is my sixth main, and I suck with him, so yeah. All I know is that he's faster and his shine has more knockback.
castorpollux
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,502
Fox's down air/up tilt and running speed are better than wolfs. Every other move wolf has is either better or up to subjective opinion
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Wolf kills earlier than fox and hes heavier. Wolf can do some pretty nice stuff with the B-air and whatnot like B-air into F-smash or B-air into DACUS. Their recoveries are about equal.
Usmash kills earlier than dsmash ever does, unless Wolf has some move I don't know about Fox always kills earlier than Wolf. Not saying dsmash isn't good because it's a lethal kill move, but Foxs' is one of the best vertical killers in the game which is always better than a horizontal killer. Wolf has a few combos, but Foxs' game is based off combos.
Their recoveries are not even, only decent move Wolf has is Flash. If he's at any angle where FireWolf has to be used......he's dead. Fox has the fair copter, shinestalling, and the fact that he actually has an up b.
I'm not debating who is the better character, i'm just answering the OP question.
Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Actually wolf kills fox earlier than fox kills wolf. Wolf is heavier and D-smash is powerful if not overused.
I will admit that fox does have a bit better recovery.
Imo wolf has the edge in a fox vs wolf matchup but only by a bit.
I will admit that fox does have a bit better recovery.
Imo wolf has the edge in a fox vs wolf matchup but only by a bit.
Neither of them has a better recovery. Both are equally under-average and gimpable. Fox can come back from different angles, that's all. Fox kills earlier? Well his usmash kills earlier than Wolfs dsmash. But Wolf also deals more dmg in less time than Fox. Fox combo games is one of the most overrated things about him. He has one truly unescapable combo (utilt chain @low%), everything else can be escaped (dair can be DI'ed away).
Overall Wolf is good amounts better: He's faster in battle, has much better options OoS (fsmash!), wins defense by a large margin (Fox just can'tcamp) and has less limitations: Fox doesn't have as much range or mobility in the air and he also lives too short to be a good character (little weight + fail recovery + no camping ability = ....)
Overall Wolf is good amounts better: He's faster in battle, has much better options OoS (fsmash!), wins defense by a large margin (Fox just can'tcamp) and has less limitations: Fox doesn't have as much range or mobility in the air and he also lives too short to be a good character (little weight + fail recovery + no camping ability = ....)
Fox at least has an average recovery. The copter covers him so he's not a sitting duck while he's out there and it enables him to get back in most situations without even having to use his recovery moves. His shine also enables him to throw off edge-hoggers.......Foxs' recovery>Wolfs.
They're both excellent at racking up large amounts of damage in little amounts of time. Wolf has no "unescapable combos" however, most of his damage racking centers around his bair and his dthrow. Foxs' damage racking centers around his utilt and his dair. Don't give me this crap about dair being DI'ed. In theory it can be but if it's undecayed the hitstun makes it extremely hard to do. Dair combos into utilt at lower percentages, dsmash at middle percentages, and the always lethal usmash right around kill percentage.
Fox has usmash and dsmash OoS......enough said. Camping is not relevant because Fox has a reflector......why would he ever need to camp if he can't be camped? I'll give you that Wolf has more range and mobility in the air.
I don't see why Wolf is thought of to be vastly superior to Fox, they both are excellent characters. Keep in mind that you may believe Wolf is a lot better, but Fox is only 3 spots away from him on the tier list.
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
Fox has Upsmash. And Reflector. And yeah that's about it. Lol he has more but I don't really know Fox.
§witch
Smash Lord
Marsulas is right. Fox's OoS game is superior to wolf's, he KO's wolf earlier than wolf KO's fox (fox's usmash on wolf KOs a few percent earlier than wolf's dsmash KOs fox from the center of FD.) And fox is one of best move refreshers in brawl, if wolf uses his dsmash once, then he'll have a very hard time killing fox, not that landing a dsmash on fox would be very easy anyways.
Fox at least has an average recovery. The copter covers him so he's not a sitting duck while he's out there and it enables him to get back in most situations without even having to use his recovery moves. His shine also enables him to throw off edge-hoggers.......Foxs' recovery>Wolfs.[/QUOTE ]
I could easily tell you how wrong you are. Stubborn Fox users
Neither of them is excellent. Wolf is better than Fox though
Welcome to Brawl
Typically for a Fox player you forget to mention how hard these moves are to land
Wolfs fsmash OoS >>> anything Fox has (he needs usmash for KOing and fsmash sux)
Learn the definition of camping before spreading nonsense like this.
LMAO. Wolf and Fox in particular aren't excellent in the slightest. Wolf is over-average and Fox is mediocre.
He's an entire tier higher. Tier gaps exist for a reason
Lol, an entire tier higher? Lets look at this: Wolf is at the bottom of high tier, Fox is at the top of middle tier. An entire tier higher would be a viable argument if Fox was at the bottom of middle tier, however he is not. Your argument is weak, this is just like saying Wolf is an entire tier higher than Olimar and Toon Link, when we all know those characters are close if not even with Wolf as a character.[/B]Fox at least has an average recovery. The copter covers him so he's not a sitting duck while he's out there and it enables him to get back in most situations without even having to use his recovery moves. His shine also enables him to throw off edge-hoggers.......Foxs' recovery>Wolfs.[/QUOTE ]
I could easily tell you how wrong you are. Stubborn Fox users
Then "easily" tell me since your not stating anything to refute my points about the recovery issue.
Neither of them is excellent. Wolf is better than Fox though
I question whether or not you actually play Wolf.
Welcome to Brawl
The whole"Brawl has no combos" argument is really old and naive, sure it's not as great as melee..........but I suggest you play Sheik and Luigi if you think there are no combos.
Typically for a Fox player you forget to mention how hard these moves are to land
First off this sentence is incorrect(i'm majoring in English), secondly dair and utilt are not hard to land. All of the tournament Fox players use it a lot. Comes out on frame 5 iirc, autocancels, an dit eats shields alive.
Wolfs fsmash OoS >>> anything Fox has (he needs usmash for KOing and fsmash sux)
Fox can land usmash as many times as he wants, if for some reason I feel like I need a fresh usmash, I can just run away and SHDL 2 or 3 times............amazing isn't it. Never did I mention Foxs' fsmash, i'm going to assume that you meant Foxs' dsmash. Dsmash is a great OoS option and it doesn't leave you nearly as vulnerableif you whiff as Wolf is with his fsmash. It's also more powerful and sends characters on a downward trajectory.....once again Fox has better OoS options.
Learn the definition of camping before spreading nonsense like this.
Define camping for me then.
LMAO. Wolf and Fox in particular aren't excellent in the slightest. Wolf is over-average and Fox is mediocre.
If being at the top of middle tier is mediocre, then so be it.
He's an entire tier higher. Tier gaps exist for a reason
AssaultX
Smash Apprentice
Fox Pros:
-U-Smash Killer
-U-Tilt String
-Powerful Shine
-More "combos" >_>
-Longer Side-B Recovery
-Cannot be Chaingrbbed by Dedede
Cons:
-5th Lightest character
-Hard to hit aerials
-U-Smash is one of his only kill moves (b-air and u-air maybe?)
-More Predictable and Easier to cape recovery
Wolf Pros:
-Medium Heavy.
-One of the longest ranged F-smashes
-Overall good air game
-"Comboable" shine :O
-More Approach Options
-More reliable kill moves
Cons:
-Hard to Master Up-B recovery
-Easy to chaingrab
-Edgegrab box is tiny
I say Wolf is superior becuase his pros has greater impact than Fox's even though Wolf's cons make him a risky character to use. All that Fox has is D-air, Lazer and U-Tilt for damage racking, while Wolf has Lazer, D-Throw, F-smash, B-air, U-smash, D-air, and F-Tilt for damage and has all 3 Smashes, U-tilt, Bair, F-air, and D-air for reliable kill moves. Also, Fox has only one specific style to be able to use effectively (Samboner's), while Wolf has Germ's, Kosk's, and Castorpollox's styles, all noticably different in many ways.
And tiers don't really matter as they only rate the character's POTENTIAL, not who's "better" or "worse" and since this is only the first list relesed, anything can happen within the game later on.
-U-Smash Killer
-U-Tilt String
-Powerful Shine
-More "combos" >_>
-Longer Side-B Recovery
-Cannot be Chaingrbbed by Dedede
Cons:
-5th Lightest character
-Hard to hit aerials
-U-Smash is one of his only kill moves (b-air and u-air maybe?)
-More Predictable and Easier to cape recovery
Wolf Pros:
-Medium Heavy.
-One of the longest ranged F-smashes
-Overall good air game
-"Comboable" shine :O
-More Approach Options
-More reliable kill moves
Cons:
-Hard to Master Up-B recovery
-Easy to chaingrab
-Edgegrab box is tiny
I say Wolf is superior becuase his pros has greater impact than Fox's even though Wolf's cons make him a risky character to use. All that Fox has is D-air, Lazer and U-Tilt for damage racking, while Wolf has Lazer, D-Throw, F-smash, B-air, U-smash, D-air, and F-Tilt for damage and has all 3 Smashes, U-tilt, Bair, F-air, and D-air for reliable kill moves. Also, Fox has only one specific style to be able to use effectively (Samboner's), while Wolf has Germ's, Kosk's, and Castorpollox's styles, all noticably different in many ways.
And tiers don't really matter as they only rate the character's POTENTIAL, not who's "better" or "worse" and since this is only the first list relesed, anything can happen within the game later on.
Metro Knight
Smash Ace
This response is probably the best response so far. Wolf is far easier to play than Fox, and his spacing is just far superior. I am sure some Fox's are going to do spectactular things, but I think the level of difficulty of performing these things are going to keep a lot of fox players from winning as many tournaments as a Wolf player.
As far as tier rankings go, they probably will be within 5 spots of each other.
ZeroFox
Smash Lord
Currently they are.
I think they're both good characters. But Wolf has the edge.
Wolf did take longer for me to get used to though (Mostly because I mained Fox in Melee), but I feel like Wolf the easier character to use. Fox takes more skill IMO.
AssaultX
Smash Apprentice
Many people usually spam withWolf when they use him for the first few times, and then when people complain and critisize the spammer, the spammer will be motivated to despam Wolf, if they are commited enough and usually gets he results they want after only a week's time.
New Fox users spam as well, but it takes much longer to despam Fox than Wolf, at least 2 weeks' worth for the average smasher.
Dsmash is a great kill move for Fox, it's probably his second most reliable. I agree that bair and uair are hard to land but fair, nair, and dair are all good and come out very fast. His recovery is not "more predictable than Wolfs'". As I already stated earlier in the thread........Fox can shine stall, he has the copter, and he has two long distance recovery moves for vertical and horizontal recovery. Wolf can do some nice stuff with Flash due to the ledge scarring glitch and such, but it is in no way better than Foxs' options.
As for damage racking, Foxs' throws are fantastic due to how fast his pummel is. Go watch some vids of Lucien and Gamble and see how often they use his grab game.
Wolf does have more kill options but they're not "better" or more "reliable". Utilt has crappy range, and dair is certainly not reliable. Once again usmash is going to kill earlier than anything Wolf has and it can be used out of a dash........making it one of the best punishing moves in the game.
DO NOT bring up Samboner, all he plays is WIFI and I personally know a couple people who are just as good as him on WIFI. Gamble and Lucien are twice the player Samboner will ever be. Hell Rookie even has a unique style as well.......not sure where you were going with this. Most Wolf styles revolve around the bair.
Tiers were brought up by other people and they do not only rate the characters potential.
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Mhm.
So basically a good punisher.
Yes, his air game is good.
BS, everyone of his shine "Combos" are escapable.
Hmmm... would you mind elaborating?
No. Just no.
------------
Hmmm, I don't believe any of Fox's aerials are truly "safe", most of them are punishable if they hit a shield. There's kind of a psuedo-safe side to Dair, Fox can follow up a Dair with... pretty much anything, Jab for spotdodge, Utilt for lack of shield, grab for shield. So it's kinda safe, but there's a possibility for retaliation (Albeit small). Uhm... I think Wolf's side B is superior in the way of options. I mean, even if you side B close to the edge with Fox, if there's an invincible opponent (From edgehogging) then you'll just side b into the stage and fall to your doom, not so with Wolf, if spaced right, it'll go through the edgehogger, and back safely onto the stage. But on the flip side, his side b is longer and has a large sweetspot box. So yeah, whatever. And Fox's Up B is much better than Wolf's. Overally a much better recovery. Just Wolf has more options...when he can recover. Though, Fox does have shine stalling... Dunno how helpful that is, haven't really looked into it.
Wolf's pummel is fast as well =/
Go watch some vids of Lucien's Wolf and see how often he uses Wolf's grab game. Wolf's grabgame is more of a tech chase, while Fox's are more for positioning. Both are pretty good.
Indeed, no other move in the entire game could possibly punish people as well as Fox's Usmash. >_>
Agreed WiFi sucks, and just because most Wolfs base their style off of Bair doesn't mean the good people do >_> Wolf isn't all about Bair mixups and then Dsmash, no, there's more depth than that to Wolf.
§witch
Smash Lord
Fox has superior recovery, his fair recovery makes his better. He has more killing options, he's quite possibly the best move refresher in brawl. If wolf uses dsmash ONCE without KO'ing with it, he's going to have a **** hard time killing. Fox has more moves that KO, and doesn't have to worry about stale moves, fox's usmash KOs wolf before wolf's dsmash KOs fox btw.
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Best Move Refresher? o.O Oooh, explain.
ZeroFox
Smash Lord
Nah I don't spam with any of my mains.Many people usually spam withWolf when they use him for the first few times, and then when people complain and critisize the spammer, the spammer will be motivated to despam Wolf, if they are commited enough and usually gets he results they want after only a week's time.
New Fox users spam as well, but it takes much longer to despam Fox than Wolf, at least 2 weeks' worth for the average smasher.
With Meta Knight, the biggest "spam" moves are Mach Tornado and d-smash probably. I use them when I have the chance, but I wouldn't say I spam them.
With Wolf, I don't spam blaster, f-smash, or d-smash. Again, it's utilization at an opportune time.
Same thing with Fox.
I pretty much use all of each character's moves often in a match, not just their "frequently spammed moves." There aren't too many moves that I don't use at least once.
I didn't really do much spamming when I first picked up those characters either.
AssaultX
Smash Apprentice
O Rly? Fox will kill Wolf at around 100% with an u-smash because of Wolf's weight, but Fox is the 5th lightest in the game, so I really don't see how much later Fox will die from a fresh Wolf D-smash than Wolf dying from Fox's USmash.
And Fox is definitely NOT the best move refresher; I believe its Marth IMO with his Dancing Blade.
ArcPoint made a good post.
I know Wolfs pummel is fast and I love watching Luciens Wolf..........I just was pointing out the fact about Foxs' grab game. I know how great Wolf's dthrow is, his grab game is better than Foxs', but Fox does have a decent one. Nair is actually fairly safe because you can land behind their shield but yes mostly they are not reliable approach options. Oh and the bair comment wasn't a swipe at Wolf players, I know there's more than that just as a general approach option all Wolf players use bair and why would you blame them?
The game only remembers your last 9 moves iirc so Fox gets off 9 blaster shots in between stocks or even during the stock you have fresh moves. That's really the beauty of the blaster, sure it's not a great projectile but everytime I use it i'm refreshing my moves.
Assault, from the middle of FD Fox kills Wolf earlier then Wolf kills Fox because it is a vertical killer.
I know Wolfs pummel is fast and I love watching Luciens Wolf..........I just was pointing out the fact about Foxs' grab game. I know how great Wolf's dthrow is, his grab game is better than Foxs', but Fox does have a decent one. Nair is actually fairly safe because you can land behind their shield but yes mostly they are not reliable approach options. Oh and the bair comment wasn't a swipe at Wolf players, I know there's more than that just as a general approach option all Wolf players use bair and why would you blame them?
The game only remembers your last 9 moves iirc so Fox gets off 9 blaster shots in between stocks or even during the stock you have fresh moves. That's really the beauty of the blaster, sure it's not a great projectile but everytime I use it i'm refreshing my moves.
Assault, from the middle of FD Fox kills Wolf earlier then Wolf kills Fox because it is a vertical killer.
Ookami-kun
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2008
- Messages
- 882
Eh, I never use Wolf's reflector for combos. I use it for approach. It overrides priority because of its invincibility.
§witch
Smash Lord
Ask my 9 lasers.
EDIT: Just fyi, I'm not saying wolf is better than fox or vice versa, I'm just pointing out things that the wolf board seems to be ignorant of (not saying you are arc, just the majority.)
ArcPoint
Smash Lord
Haha, completely forgot about lasers ^_^
And I'll admit I don't know everything, I haven't gone all too in-depth with every character in Brawl, at least not like I have with Wolf =)
And what about Wolf killing from the edges? I'd imagine there would be a considerable difference between the center of FD and the edge of FD, I mean, it's more work for the Wolf player to get them in that bad position... but the payoffs are pretty nice. I mean, he can kill a lot earlier from the edge compared to the center...
And I'll admit I don't know everything, I haven't gone all too in-depth with every character in Brawl, at least not like I have with Wolf =)
And what about Wolf killing from the edges? I'd imagine there would be a considerable difference between the center of FD and the edge of FD, I mean, it's more work for the Wolf player to get them in that bad position... but the payoffs are pretty nice. I mean, he can kill a lot earlier from the edge compared to the center...
AssaultX
Smash Apprentice
Fox is generally a vertical killer, so edge kills don't matter as much to him as Wolf does. Wolf is a horizontal killer, so edges are very important for sure kills with d-smash and b-air.
Wolf has a few moves that make it easier for the player to move the target to the edge like b-air, f-tilt, f-smash, the occaisional d-tilt... but its still pretty tough as half the moves I said are punishable :/
Wolf has a few moves that make it easier for the player to move the target to the edge like b-air, f-tilt, f-smash, the occaisional d-tilt... but its still pretty tough as half the moves I said are punishable :/
The_Blue_Bomber
Smash Journeyman
In Fox's favor:
- Faster
- Better KO ability
- Better recovery
- Better shine
- Easier to combo with
In Wolf's favor:
- Stronger attacks
- Heavier, meaning harder to KO
- Harder to Gimp IMO
- Laser stuns
From these statistics I prefer Fox, but that's just me.
- Faster
- Better KO ability
- Better recovery
- Better shine
- Easier to combo with
In Wolf's favor:
- Stronger attacks
- Heavier, meaning harder to KO
- Harder to Gimp IMO
- Laser stuns
From these statistics I prefer Fox, but that's just me.
Metro Knight
Smash Ace
yeah, if Wolf does not get you to the edge, you can live for a really long time. However, if he has you on the edge that can be bad. My brother generally laser camps my Link once I get hanging on the Ledge and if he sees me rolling on the stage or hitting to recover he Fsmashes me back off, otherwise he will laser spam and chase with a grab/shieldgrab and throw me back on to the ledge.
The front smash is such a good damage racker... if Fox had a move that was as easy to space, I think he would be better, but this move makes all the difference. Fox's recovery is so funny to watch though lol.
Smasherboy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2008
- Messages
- 5
I wouldn't really say Wolf is "better" than Fox he just has certain advantages. He's got the power I like but also lacks the speed I love. I main all three StarFox characters so which of them I choose is random alot but I tend to lean towards Wolf the most, Fox the second, and then Falco. It's not a favorite thing just who I do better with.
§witch
Smash Lord
Wolf is faster than fox in all but fall speed and running speed.
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