Wobbling Compromise that I don't care about because we have new infinites

[Kyu Puff]

If a Sheik actually paused to hit a techchase and then tried to lie about it, just get other people to watch your match and they won't try that again. I guess you could solve the counting problem the same way, but it's much easier to miscount something than to blatantly lie like that, which is dishonest and might get you dq'd.

I think Wobbles was pointing out that you need a rule to say something like "if you do more than 5 tilts, the other player can pause, and if you don't stop and sd you lose the match."

Also, can you respond to this?:

From the standpoint of a non-IC, why would I want to give up my ability to counterpick a stage like Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar? Those stages not only decrease the chance of being wobbled, but also of being grabbed at all. This compromise basically gives me the choice between poop and ****.

From the standpoint of an IC player, isn't this just a concession that wobbling is 'gay'? It compares wobbling being legal to camping really hard on unfair counterpick stages. On top of that, what's to stop the player from camping really hard on neutrals? This compromise first tries to define 'cheap' and then fails to ban it on either end.

I know it's optional and everything, but I just don't see how this compromise satisfies either player. I think limiting wobbling to either 5 tilts or to 100% alone would be a better compromise. The only (barely) cogent anti-wobbling argument imo is that the other player has no control over their character. The "boringness" of a match is completely irrelevant, and the ruleset should not take it into account.

The anti-wobbling arguments are very weak, but obviously there is still a lot of resistance to it. Limiting the amount of wobbling should ease the resistance; making the other player sacrifice their cp stages is hardly a compromise between legalization and ban. The 100% rule favors the IC player more, although the number is sort of arbitrary, and the 5 tilt rule favors the non-IC more, but which rule to use could be up to the discretion of the t.o. I guess.

 

[pockyD]

why compromise when you're in the right

 

[Wobbles]

I mention it because any rule that's so difficult to enforce and has so much abuse potential on both sides clearly needs reworking or rewording. Keeping track of the number of tilts isn't all that tough, but it IS the kind of thing that can be miscounted or lead to dispute. Especially if there's any kind of personal grudge between the players, or one guy thinks he might be able to sneak a win that could get him out of pools.

Truthfully though, having the infinite doesn't make the ICs that much stronger. Having zero bad levels does. I never have to spend a ban on Brinstar, Mute, Japes, or DK64 ever again? Like I've said before, I think this compromise skews vastly in favor of the ICs, while the part that's supposed to appease pro-banners doesn't even do much of anything. I do not want the character treated specially and I'm pretty confident most people will be in favor of it until they see the reality of it in tournaments, which would be to artifically inflate how "good" the ICs are because you aren't allowed to put them at a serious stage disadvantage. They're really strong on just about all the neutrals for different reasons and across different matchups.

I dislike the arbitrariness of the 5 tilts (why EXACTLY is it more or less fair than 4 or 6 again?) but what I hate more is the autobanned stages. Why why why why why why why why?

 

[Wobbles]

I've seen a lot of double posts lately. Smashboards being silly?

 

[Jayford]

Why don't you go ahead and answer this yourself, because you do x-number of tilt semi-wobbles.

This whole dispute kind of thing is not easy to come up with. It's like saying "oh so if I was techchasing with Sheik and the guy really needed to hit the techchase so he paused and saw where my tech was going." What happens if nobody else was watching? Whose word against whose?

Similar things exist when wobbling is legal. A pause can totally fuuck up a wobble. Whose word against whose if they pause? What if they did it last stock etc.

You should know not to play theory-bros here, Wobbles.

You have to play theroy-bros with a compromise like this. I think the biggest problem is what if I wobble someone like 40 times when I am in the lead and be like opps there goes my stock loooool SD then come back and kill them. The compromise would create situations where it would be the best option to wobble the **** out of your oppenent then SD. Also like wobbels was saying the biggest thing is the fact that ICs lose all of their bad stages which inturn makes them about 100x better.

 

[Rin10-10]

Truthfully though, having the infinite doesn't make the ICs that much stronger. Having zero bad levels does. I never have to spend a ban on Brinstar, Mute, Japes, or DK64 ever again? Like I've said before, I think this compromise skews vastly in favor of the ICs, while the part that's supposed to appease pro-banners doesn't even do much of anything.

Agree completely.