Wings Clipped

[Ambient_Horizon]

Hello I am a long time Smash Bros fan and player in Michigan. From the very start I chose the Captain as my main. I dominated a lot of tournaments in Melee when really picked up and became a competitive game. The Captain wasn't the best but I showed a lot of people in Michigan what a good Falcon is. (Okay I'm done tooting my own horn now =P) Now Brawl has been out for a while and I looked forward to Kneeing people's faces in but the physics of this game totally gimped the centerpieces of the Falcon style. My question is to all you dedicated Falcon players is how do you get around all this. Falcon is not the Knee Smash using powerhouse he was in previous games. Everytime I play with him it just makes me frustrated. I have trouble against generically played Ikes and Wolfs and that pisses me off. Is there a way to make Falcon competitive in serious play or should I stick to one of my new characters. Thank you in advance for any informative replies.

Ambient

 

[Tenki]

Relearn it all from the beginning.

Forget everything you used to do- it will only hinder you.

People complain about his aerials' timing, but honestly, it just takes some practice to get a feel of where and when to use it.

It's the general thing with most veteran characters - if it was over-relied on in Melee, it's 'nerfed' or changed now; if it was under-used in Melee, it's buffed now- no character, maybe except Marth, can be played successfully if you play them like you did in Melee.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

Relearn it all from the beginning.

Forget everything you used to do- it will only hinder you.

People complain about his aerials' timing, but honestly, it just takes some practice to get a feel of where and when to use it.

It's the general thing with most veteran characters - if it was over-relied on in Melee, it's 'nerfed' or changed now; if it was under-used in Melee, it's buffed now- no character, maybe except Marth, can be played successfully if you play them like you did in Melee.

My problem is that Falcon's ground game was never amazing due to the fact that his priority was never top notch. It was the same in Melee and it seems to be the case in Brawl. Falcon Kick is actually better than it used to be and plays a key role in his ground combat but overall its still average. His aerial combat was actually what made him beastly in Melee. He doesn't have that now and Brawl seems to be WAYYYYYY more aerial combat based than any other SSB game. People like Metaknight for example eat him up in the air. If Falcon lost the aspect of his fighting that made him good and his ground combat and priority are lackluster than how is he supposed to be playable. I can forget what I learned and it would probably help but it doesn't change Falcon any.

 

[Tenki]

mhm true.

Well, here's something that may or may not help...
alot of the characters' changes or traits draw them toward certain playstyles.

Characters who are slower and have more knockback tend to be played quite defensively, with single decisive strikes (Ike, Ganondorf). Characters who attack quickly tend to be played offensively, with combos to boot (Star Fox and friends, Metaknight). Characters with spammable projectiles tend to have lower knockback, encouraging the use of projectiles to rack up damage (Link, Samus). Characters who move quickly tend to play the punishment game, to take advantage of speed and avoid low priority (prime example: Sonic), and characters with good recovery usually take advantage of it and gimp people (Kirby, Pit, Sonic...).

Where does Falcon land in all of this?

He has increased knockback on all attacks, low priority, medium-fast running speed, has a few decisive strong-knockback moves (Falcon Punch, Knee), two meteor attacks, and pretty good recovery (side-B sweetspots now, up-B has a freakish ledge-grab). He's got decent aerial speed too, so you can push and chase someone toward the edge in about 2-3 hits.

He definitely doesn't seem to be much of a combo character, runs/gets out of a dash too slow to punish small delay (IMO), lacks priority, but he can edgeguard decently and finish people off-stage pretty well lol.

Seems to be a defensive, anti-aerial, ledgeguarding character to me x.x;

but that's just my speculation.

:x

better to wait for a response from a Falcon main though.

 

[Ayaz18]

Patience my good friend

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

This is all very good speculation though its greatly appreciated. I can see how he can be used as an anti aerial character based on all those characteristics you listed. Falcon Dive does seem to have an extended window of when it allows you to grab your opponent. The thing is the Knee has so much more of a precise sweet spot that it seems very unfeasible against an aerial type character unless you can get that sweet spot everytime. To be able to be used as an effective anti aerial character he's going to have to be patient and be precise in his attacks from ground or jumping and then using those attacks. The problem with that is that a lot of characters that are considered aerial have a lot of defenses against that especially people like Kirby and Metaknight. For example: Metaknight's prized Tornado has prominent priority and protects him from almost all angles. He is however completely vulnerable from above but a good player will approach from the air making it increasing difficult to break him out of it. Perhaps Falcon Kick would serve a purpose here as it seems to be one of his more priortized attacks. But in general when you look at his aerial moves at a whole:

Nair: A Double Kick that has decent priority but requires timing and punishable at times.
Fair: The famous Knee that has tremendous knockback and priority..if you get the sweet spot otherwise its weak.
Dair: This move is seriously gimped because of the physics of the game. The way it moves Falcon and its range have been compromised.
Uair: This is my favorite aerial move and is still great however it seems as if Falcon's jumping ability has been gimped making comboing off it of harder.
Bair: Its still a solid aerial knockback attack but it's harder to use because of the way of the physics work now.

At least the Uair and a precisely timed Knee would work well for the whole aerial killing Falcon. I think it's just a shame that Falcon still has that good ground speed but isn't able to use it the way he should be able to. I played Falcon in melee the way you describe him to be now but with some variations. When needed I would use him as an aggressive speed type. His power and a healthy use of Crouch Canceling, Raptor Boost and Falcon Kick allowed me to deal with even the most staunch Fox and Falco players. I don't think that would work as well as this game however. I need insight on an effective ground game.


Patience....I'm a patient guy I just hope that there's a way to give Falcon back the glory he deserves. I hate tier lists since they're all based on other people's opinions and anyone can be full of ****. So to see Falcon on the bottom of these premature tier lists annoys me.

Long live the Captain.

 

[Iwan]

This is all very good speculation though its greatly appreciated. I can see how he can be used as an anti aerial character based on all those characteristics you listed. Falcon Dive does seem to have an extended window of when it allows you to grab your opponent. The thing is the Knee has so much more of a precise sweet spot that it seems very unfeasible against an aerial type character unless you can get that sweet spot everytime. To be able to be used as an effective anti aerial character he's going to have to be patient and be precise in his attacks from ground or jumping and then using those attacks. The problem with that is that a lot of characters that are considered aerial have a lot of defenses against that especially people like Kirby and Metaknight. For example: Metaknight's prized Tornado has prominent priority and protects him from almost all angles. He is however completely vulnerable from above but a good player will approach from the air making it increasing difficult to break him out of it. Perhaps Falcon Kick would serve a purpose here as it seems to be one of his more priortized attacks. But in general when you look at his aerial moves at a whole:

Nair: A Double Kick that has decent priority but requires timing and punishable at times.
Fair: The famous Knee that has tremendous knockback and priority..if you get the sweet spot otherwise its weak.
Dair: This move is seriously gimped because of the physics of the game. The way it moves Falcon and its range have been compromised.
Uair: This is my favorite aerial move and is still great however it seems as if Falcon's jumping ability has been gimped making comboing off it of harder.
Bair: Its still a solid aerial knockback attack but it's harder to use because of the way of the physics work now.

At least the Uair and a precisely timed Knee would work well for the whole aerial killing Falcon. I think it's just a shame that Falcon still has that good ground speed but isn't able to use it the way he should be able to. I played Falcon in melee the way you describe him to be now but with some variations. When needed I would use him as an aggressive speed type. His power and a healthy use of Crouch Canceling, Raptor Boost and Falcon Kick allowed me to deal with even the most staunch Fox and Falco players. I don't think that would work as well as this game however. I need insight on an effective ground game.


Patience....I'm a patient guy I just hope that there's a way to give Falcon back the glory he deserves. I hate tier lists since they're all based on other people's opinions and anyone can be full of ****. So to see Falcon on the bottom of these premature tier lists annoys me.

Long live the Captain.

Really, you're going to have to experiment man. I started out playing with a super aggressive playstyle, which didn't work. Then i switched to a more defensive play style, which worked much better (because of the way brawl is played)...and now i tend to do a bit of both, and I think i'm actually starting to become pretty good. At least as good as a player can get with Falcon at the moment. I did okay at my tourney earlier this week lol.

But first thing's first. The knee, even when you have the timing down exactly, isn't what it was in melee. There's nothing to lead into a knee anymore really, so it's more of a "OMG here's a chance to use the knee" kind of thing, or you purposely DON'T land the sweetspot to set up for a YES! combo. I know the sweetspot like the back of my hand, as do other Falcon users here, but the move's been nerfed.

I love his up air. Hell, everyone loves his up air. It's a really good move lol, but the thing is it's still only one move. I like the Captain's up tilt, falcon kick is better in this game, and down smash is very nice in certain situations. I also really love his hyphen up smash (dashing up smash).....

Am i the only one who likes the dashing up smash?

haha , anyway, experiment, be creative. If you plan on using a bad character like Falcon, use your head and outplay your opponents, because you have very, very few advantages against many characters in brawl. But who cares right? I just love playing as him, so I'll stick with him to the end....

Never win a tourney, but hey...whatever.
haha.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

I like dashing up smash because it some what increases the range of his up smash. Falcon Kick, Uair, and Up tilt are potentially his best moves.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

Really, you're going to have to experiment man. I started out playing with a super aggressive playstyle, which didn't work. Then i switched to a more defensive play style, which worked much better (because of the way brawl is played)...and now i tend to do a bit of both, and I think i'm actually starting to become pretty good. At least as good as a player can get with Falcon at the moment. I did okay at my tourney earlier this week lol.

But first thing's first. The knee, even when you have the timing down exactly, isn't what it was in melee. There's nothing to lead into a knee anymore really, so it's more of a "OMG here's a chance to use the knee" kind of thing, or you purposely DON'T land the sweetspot to set up for a YES! combo. I know the sweetspot like the back of my hand, as do other Falcon users here, but the move's been nerfed.

I love his up air. Hell, everyone loves his up air. It's a really good move lol, but the thing is it's still only one move. I like the Captain's up tilt, falcon kick is better in this game, and down smash is very nice in certain situations. I also really love his hyphen up smash (dashing up smash).....

Am i the only one who likes the dashing up smash?

haha , anyway, experiment, be creative. If you plan on using a bad character like Falcon, use your head and outplay your opponents, because you have very, very few advantages against many characters in brawl. But who cares right? I just love playing as him, so I'll stick with him to the end....

Never win a tourney, but hey...whatever.
haha.

I will agree that Falcon's utilt is an effectlive move. I don't use it as much as I should. I think part of the problem with the way I play Falcon in Brawl really does have to do with the fact I'm still in "Melee Mode" Brawl has a knack of annoying me between the physics, and items, and the changes in moves. I guess I just have to accept the fact that I have to be more patient and pinpoint with my aerial attacks. For the ground aspect I guess some utilts, Falcon Kicks the occasional Falcon Dive ( I found it does quite well against Ike) and even the dashing up smash. I do use that move occasionally and it wows people when you finish with it or use it in a disruptive manner.

I will admit I am not used to having to use my head a lot during matches. Of course I use common sense and strategy but I have to do it moreso than before. I guess it helps that I picked up Snake as a new character the fact that you have to really know what you're doing with him influences the way I play with other characters. My suggestion to a lot of other people who may be stressing over finding a new way to play with an old character is to try playing with a character who is essentially you're opposite. It allows you to see things in a new perspective. I still a lot to learn with Falcon in this game however but I won't give up so easily. If I can win a tournament here with him you'll see me bragging here lol. I still want to hear some suggestions from other Falcon Users about how you play. Particularly from those from played Melee and was forced to adjust. In the way when you look at what Tenki suggests the overall way Falcon is played (good) is the exact same as Melee just different execution.

 

[Ayato]

Falcon's metagame currently leaves him in no condition to compete in tournaments. He will only place in local/low-key tournaments, by my speculation. My hat's off to people who try to use him competitively, but the fact is he won't be able to endure the onslaught of Snakes, MKs, and ROBs that he will face on the way to the finals. The number of Falcon's disadvantageous matchups makes it nigh impossible for him to even get a decent match beyond the first round or so.

No amount of learning the new Falcon mechanics will make him a viable tournament competitor even in the hands of some of his best users. Brawl has balanced the game in some respects, but when matchups get lopsided, they are many times more lopsided than they used to be. What would have amounted to a 1 stock advantage in the last game will now amount to about 3. Think Olimar, think MK, think popular characters who clearly outclass Falcon as a matter of play-styles. You will generally run into matchups where you will be fighting uphill the whole way, and you simply cannot win a tournament like this. Until something broken or amazing is discovered about Falcon's metagame (or the overall Brawl metagame), no amount of practice or adapting will make him tournament viable. You can get pretty good with him using some of Tenki's advice, but it'll really only help against certain characters. Opponents like MK and Olimar are simply lost causes.

He's a fun character. He's not a competitor as it stands, though. Use him at small gatherings, in friendlies, or against friends, but neve expect to win tournaments wit him.

 

[KeyKid19]

First off let me say nice job trying to stick with Falcon in Brawl. You are already cooler than 90+% of his Melee users in my book. lol

There's been a lot of debate and trial and error done by the regulars here regarding aggressive vs. defensive playstyling. There isn't really a definitive answer on that yet, but I'll tell you what I see. In Brawl, Falcon is about balance. There are times when you need to be pedal to the metal aggressive with him, and there are other times when you need to be elusive and shield happy with him. The trick to playing him well of course is to find the proper balance in each character matchup (and with 35 matchups that's a lot to learn). From my experience, generally the best place to be during a match is close enough that your opponent won't projectile you, but far enough that he can't reach you. Certain characters make this VERY difficult of course (Link and Toon Link come to mind) but as you get a better idea of how to play against each character it gets a little easier and more natural. Until you find the correct spacing for each character matchup, you'll struggle to succeed with Falcon. Luckily though it doesn't take too long to figure out everyone.

Once you've found your correct spacing, you really have to start identifying your opponent's moveset and think about what they're likely to do/what you're likely to do and what will be the probable defense taken by each. Falcon Kick is wonderful for this reason because it's fast enough that you can get it in when you're in the proper spacing area without getting shielded everytime. Pretty much every other move in Falcon's arsenal is slow enough to be prepared for by your opponent if they are not busy doing their own move or focused on recovering and stuff. Falcon's running speed is great too because you can work in Running As a lot on people. He's quick enough that you can approach from your proper spacing and get them with it. These two moves are at the core of Falcon's playstyle in my opinion. I've yet to see a good Falcon who didn't utilize these moves often.

In closer combat, look to the simple yet often overlooked AAA combo. Lots of people talk about the fists of fury being punishable (the held rapid punches after the initial 2 jabs + Gentleman Knee), but honestly I've found that if you hold A just long enough to start the fists of fury and then immediately let go, you are able to get valuable damage in with the fists of fury and then stop before your opponent can punish you. Falcon's tilts/Falcon Kick/Raptor Boost also follow up well after this move. Honestly I'm a huge fan of the AAA combo so once again I'd say start using that a lot more if you don't already and it will improve your game.

Utilt is also a noteworthy ground move. Try spamming it. Seriously. The walk behavior of it is a totally unorthodox but sometimes very effective approach method. It has great priority and an enormous hitbox with good range so even if you get attacked you should be fine. Chances are you'll get your opponent before they get you though. I find this move great at places like Battlefield and Lylat Cruise where people can land on platforms at about your head height. Utilt works much better than Usmash at quickly reaching people above you on these low platforms. Also it is a great edgeguarding tool. If you're opponent is off the stage but close enough so that you can't really get a proper edgeguard aerial on them before they return, just spam Utilt. You'll probably hit them before they reach the edge since it covers the entire area around the edge. If they do get to the edge before you get all the way over there, stop a little ways back and do it. It punishes just about every edge crawl/jump, and if you clink them you can knock them back off the stage with the little slide that they do. Then you can try again. lol I'm a big fan of Utilt as you can see. Try using it more if you don't.

Falcon Dive (UpB) is a great move now. You can shield cancel with it if you have control stick jump enabled, and it has deceptive reach both horizontally and vertically. Very often when my opponent is in kill range and I can't seem to get a good hit on them, I will simply approach, shield, and then shield cancel with UpB to KO them or at least knock them off the stage. This is a powerful move that when used creatively can be devastating. Spamming it of course does not work, but if you're careful with it and use it when you're at least pretty sure you'll get a hit with it, it's well worth it and a much better option than a lot of other moves.

You pretty much know about the aerials from what I read in your earlier post. I won't get into those, but I will say that Falcon feeds on things like Running A -> Utilt -> Uair -> UpB/Uair/Bair. Stuff like that works very often and is so enjoyable to do. I'm going to make a "combo" list in the next couple days, so if you're not sure about followups and stuff definitely give that a look-over.

In the end, Falcon really comes down to personal enjoyment. You won't win against certain characters when they are used by competent players. The sooner you accept that and enjoy using him against everyone else, the better you'll like him and the better you'll become. You won't win any tourneys with him. The best you can do with him if you really want to win a tourney with him is to use him against everyone except his worst matchups, and then when those horrible matchups come bust out your secondary. It sucks that he's come to that but that's what it's looking like it's going to be in Brawl for him. I still find him a ton of fun to play as though, as do the regulars around here. Getting Knee kills are even sweeter now than they were before, because they show that you officially mindgamed someone hard. lol Plus everyone at tourneys pulls for you and hopes you "Falcon Pwn" some people with him. I dunno, in the end it really comes down to you deciding what you want to accomplish in Brawl. If you want to have a blast with you friends and have moderate success at tourneys, then go for it. If you want to be the next Ken, try picking someone different.

I hope my post has helped you in some way.

 

[Ambient_Horizon]

First off let me say nice job trying to stick with Falcon in Brawl. You are already cooler than 90+% of his Melee users in my book. lol

There's been a lot of debate and trial and error done by the regulars here regarding aggressive vs. defensive playstyling. There isn't really a definitive answer on that yet, but I'll tell you what I see. In Brawl, Falcon is about balance. There are times when you need to be pedal to the metal aggressive with him, and there are other times when you need to be elusive and shield happy with him. The trick to playing him well of course is to find the proper balance in each character matchup (and with 35 matchups that's a lot to learn). From my experience, generally the best place to be during a match is close enough that your opponent won't projectile you, but far enough that he can't reach you. Certain characters make this VERY difficult of course (Link and Toon Link come to mind) but as you get a better idea of how to play against each character it gets a little easier and more natural. Until you find the correct spacing for each character matchup, you'll struggle to succeed with Falcon. Luckily though it doesn't take too long to figure out everyone.

Once you've found your correct spacing, you really have to start identifying your opponent's moveset and think about what they're likely to do/what you're likely to do and what will be the probable defense taken by each. Falcon Kick is wonderful for this reason because it's fast enough that you can get it in when you're in the proper spacing area without getting shielded everytime. Pretty much every other move in Falcon's arsenal is slow enough to be prepared for by your opponent if they are not busy doing their own move or focused on recovering and stuff. Falcon's running speed is great too because you can work in Running As a lot on people. He's quick enough that you can approach from your proper spacing and get them with it. These two moves are at the core of Falcon's playstyle in my opinion. I've yet to see a good Falcon who didn't utilize these moves often.

In closer combat, look to the simple yet often overlooked AAA combo. Lots of people talk about the fists of fury being punishable (the held rapid punches after the initial 2 jabs + Gentleman Knee), but honestly I've found that if you hold A just long enough to start the fists of fury and then immediately let go, you are able to get valuable damage in with the fists of fury and then stop before your opponent can punish you. Falcon's tilts/Falcon Kick/Raptor Boost also follow up well after this move. Honestly I'm a huge fan of the AAA combo so once again I'd say start using that a lot more if you don't already and it will improve your game.

Utilt is also a noteworthy ground move. Try spamming it. Seriously. The walk behavior of it is a totally unorthodox but sometimes very effective approach method. It has great priority and an enormous hitbox with good range so even if you get attacked you should be fine. Chances are you'll get your opponent before they get you though. I find this move great at places like Battlefield and Lylat Cruise where people can land on platforms at about your head height. Utilt works much better than Usmash at quickly reaching people above you on these low platforms. Also it is a great edgeguarding tool. If you're opponent is off the stage but close enough so that you can't really get a proper edgeguard aerial on them before they return, just spam Utilt. You'll probably hit them before they reach the edge since it covers the entire area around the edge. If they do get to the edge before you get all the way over there, stop a little ways back and do it. It punishes just about every edge crawl/jump, and if you clink them you can knock them back off the stage with the little slide that they do. Then you can try again. lol I'm a big fan of Utilt as you can see. Try using it more if you don't.

Falcon Dive (UpB) is a great move now. You can shield cancel with it if you have control stick jump enabled, and it has deceptive reach both horizontally and vertically. Very often when my opponent is in kill range and I can't seem to get a good hit on them, I will simply approach, shield, and then shield cancel with UpB to KO them or at least knock them off the stage. This is a powerful move that when used creatively can be devastating. Spamming it of course does not work, but if you're careful with it and use it when you're at least pretty sure you'll get a hit with it, it's well worth it and a much better option than a lot of other moves.

You pretty much know about the aerials from what I read in your earlier post. I won't get into those, but I will say that Falcon feeds on things like Running A -> Utilt -> Uair -> UpB/Uair/Bair. Stuff like that works very often and is so enjoyable to do. I'm going to make a "combo" list in the next couple days, so if you're not sure about followups and stuff definitely give that a look-over.

In the end, Falcon really comes down to personal enjoyment. You won't win against certain characters when they are used by competent players. The sooner you accept that and enjoy using him against everyone else, the better you'll like him and the better you'll become. You won't win any tourneys with him. The best you can do with him if you really want to win a tourney with him is to use him against everyone except his worst matchups, and then when those horrible matchups come bust out your secondary. It sucks that he's come to that but that's what it's looking like it's going to be in Brawl for him. I still find him a ton of fun to play as though, as do the regulars around here. Getting Knee kills are even sweeter now than they were before, because they show that you officially mindgamed someone hard. lol Plus everyone at tourneys pulls for you and hopes you "Falcon Pwn" some people with him. I dunno, in the end it really comes down to you deciding what you want to accomplish in Brawl. If you want to have a blast with you friends and have moderate success at tourneys, then go for it. If you want to be the next Ken, try picking someone different.

I hope my post has helped you in some way.

Thank you for the words of advice and the compliment. Its a little disheartening that every feels that I won't win any major tourney's with him but that's reality. I mean no one wants to really admit that they're favorite character that you've been playing with for almost 10 years is now at the bottom of the barrel compared to everyone else. Nonetheless it can't be helped really I play this game competitively and to win but I play it more for fun. And yeah around these parts people really respected me in Melee not just because I was good but because I used a character that not everyone used. I'll be ****ed if I main a Starfox character. No offense to those who do but too many people play them.

I do agree that the Utilt is a very good move and like I said I don't think I abuse that move as much as I could. I also need to work on my edgeguarding game . People thought I was so weird for just letting people come back on the stage without really trying lol. I didn't bother with it in melee and people got pissed because they thought I was insulting them. I mean sure I could try to moonwalk to a knee off the side of a stage but my main weakness in tournament play is that I'm inhibited by laziness.lol Didn't really look at the Utilt as an effective edgeguard though thank you for bringing that to my attention. Anyway The only move I consistently abuse (and with great pleasure ) is the Falcon Kick because of it uses. I think as far as my overall approach with Falcon I will have to do what I did before and switch styles when the situation calls for it. Falcon used to be about powerful 2 or 3 hit combos that revolved around putting a staggering amount of pressure on the opponent. Falcon is now more about making those 1 or 2 decisive hits after your opponent has made a mistake or you have created an opening. In a way he is played similarly to Ike (the concept is almost the same anyway) Its just much harder to do all the things that made Falcon good. You can't quite combo off his grabs like you used to, or his Raptor Boost. You cant quite use his tilt kick and follow up with his crouch kick like before. That setup before was so nasty against speedy ground types. Falcon today is all about hitting your mark dead on I suppose. When it comes to serious play I'll be rolling Snake however.

Oh yeah and AAA move is underused but not by myself. I found it to be really helpful not even just for Falcon but for a lot of other characters. Never underestimate the power of the basics.

Thank you for your post you made me think about a few things that didnt register with me before. Thats why I like these forums even a veteran like myself can always learn something new if he asks.

 

[KeyKid19]

Yeah it is sad that he has been on the decline in regards to the tier list since SSB64. Oh well, you do what you gotta do, you know?

And yeah, edgeguarding is a must now. In Melee I agree that you could get away without it a lot of the time, but in Brawl especially with Falcon it's critical. The entire point of his game is to get people off the stage so you can edgeguard them. lol

I'm glad I was of help to you. These forums are indeed very valuable once you filter out all the junk.