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Will Smash 4 have more viable characters than past games

Champ Gold

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I feel like the game will have a more diverse and viable roster than 64, Brawl and even Melee.

Characters like Mario, Link, DK, Bowser and Samus have been seeing some decent buffs, despite arguments, I feel Zelda and DeDeDe will be better than before, Captain Falcon won't even be back to Melee/64 Glory but will totally blow his Brawl counterpart out the water. Characters getting some overhauls like Pit, Sonic, Meta Knight, Ike and Sheik.

Plus the newcomers are all looking great.

I'm not saying it will be perfectly balance but have more viable characters than before.
Your thoughts
 

Dark Dude

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I can't say until I play the game for myself. I just wonder how many tweaks character balancing will get in updates. I hope it's not like Call of Duty where they're constantly rebalancing everything. I like Call of Duty, mind you. I just don't want Smash to be like that.
 

Nat Perry

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Yeah I'm really liking how the characters are shaping up in this one as well.

Dont know if it'll be more "solid" than Melee was, but hey, I'm pretty impressed so far.
 

Champ Gold

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I can't say until I play the game for myself. I just wonder how many tweaks character balancing will get in updates. I hope it's not like Call of Duty where they're constantly rebalancing everything. I like Call of Duty, mind you. I just don't want Smash to be like that.
Hopefully like every other 18 months. You gotta let a Meta game develop, if you don't it'll just be endless patch to stop the complaining. Don't believe me, read all the complaints about balance with Mortal Kombat 9 and how it got a balance patch every other 5 months. Plus don't ignore it either, nobody wants UMvC3's meta game where it's more predictable than Brawl
 

KaZe_DaRKWIND

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I don't ever plan to play competitively so I plan on just playing all the characters. Though I wonder how people would feel if they fixed balance issues with patches like they do in PvP games. Would be kinda interesting to just not be stuck with one overly broken character. Got tired of watching meta knight vs meta knight all the time.
 

Dark Dude

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You gotta let a Meta game develop, if you don't it'll just be endless patch to stop the complaining. Don't believe me,
I believe you. That's why I said what I said about CoD. They should only patch things that need, like really need, to be fixed. Not to try to make everyone happy and fix every complaint because that'll never happen.
 

mario123007

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The new Smash bros game is roughly have more characters than the previous ones, and since Meta Knight is in there will definitely be over 40+ characters,but there will be someone being cut.(This is what Sakurai had said).
 

Aguki90

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This more like a character discussion but is too part of the meta game.

After Olimar and Zelda are horrible in FFA like most people but I saw people using Zelda really good in 1-vs.-1 where most competive playstyle.

I believe that this game, has strong balancing the character and buffing at least the characters that there were very but very weak (Samus is a example). and the strong dudes like Olimar and Sonic got nerfed.

I think this smash, will CHANGE a lot, Because mostly the newcomer, customizable special moves, the use of different characters instead of Top melee tier Characters and Balancing.
 

Champ Gold

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I believe that this game, has strong balancing the character and buffing at least the characters that there were very but very weak (Samus is a example). and the strong dudes like Olimar and Sonic got nerfed
Wait, I main Sonic in Brawl I can tell you he was bad from the start in that game. Project M and Smash 4 saved him. Especially when he has a new down Smash and majority of him move have significant knockback. Only nerf he ever got Super Sonic and even then it was nerf that was needed although, it's a little too weak.
 

Jerm

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I feel that this metagame will take an incredibly long time to truly develop and mature. Even look at melee, 13 years later and now all of a sudden Amsa is putting in work with Yoshi who was considered low tier in the past. Not only do I find it hard to see any character over centralizing the 45+ characters we are bound to receive, every single character has the potential to receive a "buff" when customizable specials come in to play, if they are legal of course (which they should be!)
 
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Hydde

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Customized moves defintiely should be available for tournament play.

Thats the secret of saving this game in case the original moves of some players are ridiculously bad.
Not only this will give the opportunity to fix weak spots of your character, but will give a longevity to the metagame of certain characters like never before. Banning this moves is ********.

Heck, even brawl and melee, characters have suspiciously good special moves, and never in tournament play you have seen a rule that bans specifically the use of said moves. Why it should be done now?.

I think that this game will have a much more balanced roster than previous games because Sakurai is not alone behind balancing this time. If the Namco guys are worth their grain of salt... im pretty sure some of them will spot weak characters or OP ones and act accordingly. Still..there will be always a low tier and a high tier character.... but if the gap between a "metaknight" and a "poketrainer" could be shortened to acceptable levels... then its a win.
 

Scourge The Hedgehog

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I'm extremely hopefully that the game will have more viable characters for tournament play. Just from personal experience in the past games, there were characters who were extremely fun but lacked the tools needed to rise higher in the rankings. In Melee Roy could get some kills but overall his combo potential was very limited. Same went for characters like Mewtwo, Toon Link, Zelda, and a few others. Melee started to become a select five characters out of a pretty healthy cast. Just recently there has begun to be a surge in different characters being played.

Since Sonic was mentioned I'll explain with him. Overall the character was a unique addition to the roster. Being the fastest character in the game he could easily catch opponents and play a pressure game. Having two Spin Dashes may have seemed like a waste of specials but you could cancel both of them into shield making for a great mix up. However the down side was that he lacked KO power. Literally took ages to land a kill. Yes that sounds like a fair trade but when you only have one or two moves to get the kill with it becomes quite obnoxious. Peach also could not get the kill compared to her Melee counterpart who had her Down Smash, Forward Throw, Up Smash, Nair, Bair, and Fair. When you look at it this it became a hassle for some of the cast when going against titans like Meta Knight, Snake, DeDeDe, Falco, and Ice Climbers.

From what I've seen and tested in the new game many veterans have received updates and the tools needed. Once again taking Sonic as an example. Adjusting the Spin dashes to make them faster and more fluid helps with comboing and in fact the moves link together way easier. He now has a new Down Smash that works the same as Fox and Falco (it is a splits just in case no one knew). His overall KO power has been adjusted. From the demo alone I saw Up Air, Down Smash, Fully Charged Up Smash, Forward Smash, Bair, and Dair kill. Comparing that to Brawl that's a huge upgrade in my opinion. Of course he could get KO'd really easily.

It is these type of balances that Namco Bandai is helping with which will make the game in my opinion way more fun. The whole cast looks like they could be viable in tournament at the moment. If there is something extremely game breaking with a single character, which I highly doubt, I'm hopeful that it will be patched. Bottom line is that the entire cast looks great. With 40+ characters available we should not see a single character winning all the tournaments for quite some time, if ever.

TL;DR Smash 4 looks like it'll have the most viable cast in Smash history. Also Sonic couldn't kill in Brawl and now he can.
 

CrimsonYoshi

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All the characters look interesting and fun, yet balanced, and I'm sure the balancers know what they're doing. It'll have a lot of viable characters in my opinion.
 

pizzapie7

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This isn't something we can even assume at this point. Just wait until the game comes out.
 

HeavyLobster

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Brawl had only one character that wasn't viable. Every one was UU or OU.
Assuming Ganondorf is the one unviable character you're referring to, Jigglypuff, Link, Samus, Zelda, Captain Falcon, Bowser, and Mario would like a word with you.
 

Veggi

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Yeah, as much as I'd love to say that we know this game is balanced, we really don't know almost anything.

What we do know:

-Characters in the demo have no completely obvious imbalances.

-Some characters that weren't that great in Brawl have gotten (from what we've seen) more buffs than nerfs.

I think that's pretty much it. Both of those are pretty significant, but that's about all we know.
 

StarLight42

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I feel like the game will have a more diverse and viable roster than 64, Brawl and even Melee.

Characters like Mario, Link, DK, Bowser and Samus have been seeing some decent buffs, despite arguments, I feel Zelda and DeDeDe will be better than before, Captain Falcon won't even be back to Melee/64 Glory but will totally blow his Brawl counterpart out the water. Characters getting some overhauls like Pit, Sonic, Meta Knight, Ike and Sheik.

Plus the newcomers are all looking great.

I'm not saying it will be perfectly balance but have more viable characters than before.
Your thoughts
Zelda has been nerfed hard for this game, and she was at the bottom of the tier list in Brawl. You clearly haven't been doing your research.
 

LIQUID12A

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Custom movesets exist, so expect a certain combination of moves to make a character much better faring against someone else. Unless they're outright #banned

>UU
>OU
>Custom movesets

Pokemon? In MY SSB? It's looking more likely than we think.
I can very easily see a certain kind of player to begin making Smogon style analyses with custom moves.
 

Novice_Brave

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Zelda has been nerfed hard for this game, and she was at the bottom of the tier list in Brawl. You clearly haven't been doing your research.
Zelda has not been "nerfed hard" by any stretch of the imagination. Din's is nerfed, that's true. Essentially everything else has been buffed or changed in such a way that it benefits her within this game's system. Just take a look at a few of the Zelda threads and you'll see all the changes we've worked quite hard to find. I'm not claiming she's top tier or anything, but just that she has not been "nerfed hard."

Anyway - I think that from the looks of it so far, this game is looking more balanced than either Melee or Brawl were. I'm not noticing any gigantic power discrepancies between one character and the rest of the cast - but then again, we only have real footage of 16 characters out of a potential 45-50+ total roster. But if this sample is any indication, then yeah - I think we'll be a seeing a lot more viable characters than past Smash games - or, at the very least, a less significant power gap between characters.
 

MasterOfKnees

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Brawl had only one character that wasn't viable. Every one was UU or OU.
Eh, you're not going to find any Bowsers or Captain Falcons winning tournaments, especially not with Meta Knight lunging about.

Brawl was the most unbalanced entry in the series so far, hopefully the criticism it got for that has made it a higher focus for this game.
 

.Alone

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With Namco helping Nintendo with balancing issues, we shouldn't see a regression from Brawl. It should only be a step-up, but time will tell. All we can do is blindly speculate.
 

Hydde

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Eh, you're not going to find any Bowsers or Captain Falcons winning tournaments, especially not with Meta Knight lunging about.

Brawl was the most unbalanced entry in the series so far, hopefully the criticism it got for that has made it a higher focus for this game.
I agree with this. WHile melee was imbalanced , yes more than acceptable, Metaknight took the whole cake in brawl....following him Snake and Diddy.

On the other hend,...we had fails lie Zelda, Capt falcon, SOnic, Ganondorf and Poketrainer. This was unnaceptable.

I mean, how Sak could make Capt Falcon low tier and destroy Ganondorf?. Just because of those chars i mentioned...im very thankful that he is not balancing the game alone anymore. I also think that Brawl suffered too much form the dedication the team had to put on the Sub space emmissary. What a waste of resources that thing was.
 

D-idara

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I believe you. That's why I said what I said about CoD. They should only patch things that need, like really need, to be fixed. Not to try to make everyone happy and fix every complaint because that'll never happen.
To be fair, the FMG9 was the Meta Knight of MW3, it needed a nerf desperately.
 

Senario

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In my opinion not any more or less than previous games percentage wise of the cast. Sakurai is balancing around free for alls for some characters so some characters may be really bad in normal competitive play and some may be exceedingly good/Too good.
 
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Novice_Brave

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In my opinion not any more or less than previous games percentage wise of the cast. Sakurai is balancing around free for alls for some characters so some characters may be really bad in normal competitive play and some may be exceedingly good/Too good.
He's not balancing entirely around FFAs, he's said that they are balancing characters in a way that, "some are better in free for all, some are better one on one, some are better with items off, and some are better with items on," so on and so forth. Not that that really helps the competitive scene any, but it's still not entirely based on FFAs.
 

micstar615

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In my opinion not any more or less than previous games percentage wise of the cast. Sakurai is balancing around free for alls for some characters so some characters may be really bad in normal competitive play and some may be exceedingly good/Too good.
Wait, did he really say he's balancing it around FFAs?
 

Novice_Brave

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Wait, did he really say he's balancing it around FFAs?
As far as I know, he's only ever said he's trying to balance between all modes - still not as good for the competitive community as balancing in one on ones only would be, but still different than saying he's only taking FFAs into account.
 

StarLight42

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Well...



I'm not so sure myself she was.
:|

I can't really make a good reply to that other than saying pretty much every person I have talked to said that Zelda was nerfed hard in the demo. Even the people who were really wanting the characters to all be balanced.

Plus, the was eliminated in the first round of the invitational, but thay may have been just because of items.

Nevertheless, all I have heard was she's been nerfed. The gif you are showing looked super situational.
 
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#HBC | Red Ryu

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:|

I can't really make a good reply to that other than saying pretty much every person I have talked to said that Zelda was nerfed hard in the demo. Even the people who were really wanting the characters to all be balanced.
It's still wait and see, she seems more technical, fair and bait are still hard to sweet spot.

Her UpB and I air kill way earlier though.
 

JamietheAuraUser

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:|

I can't really make a good reply to that other than saying pretty much every person I have talked to said that Zelda was nerfed hard in the demo. Even the people who were really wanting the characters to all be balanced.

Plus, the was eliminated in the first round of the invitational, but thay may have been just because of items.

Nevertheless, all I have heard was she's been nerfed. The gif you are showing looked super situational.
The key point is that even though that's situational, it would not have worked at all in previous Smash games. Also, it seems likely to me the person trying to play Zelda in the invitational was not necessarily doing a very good job of it. It's quite possible that Smash 4 Zelda does not play at all like Melee Zelda or Brawl Zelda, and this might be a good thing since she was so low-tier in those games.
 

StarLight42

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It's still wait and see, she seems more technical, fair and bait are still hard to sweet spot.

Her UpB and I air kill way earlier though.
Yes, I think she was still being worked on at the time of the E3 Demo, and her true strengths had not yet been fully revealed. However, I was simply notifying the TC that Zelda has been said to be nerfed if you do your research on SSB4 impressions.
 

25%Cotton

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the zelda player in the invitational was not very good.
or, to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, completely out of their element.
 
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