Will another PM surface? The possibility of a PM 2.0

[TimeSmash]

Not sure if another topic has been made on this, and the topic itself is super preemptive, but I am just wondering if the community thinks and or wants another hack like PM to surface for Smash 4, whether it be on the WiiU or 3DS. I figured a WiiU hack will probably have more sway on the community, but I'm looking forward to hearing the opinions of everyone on this site. Please answer the poll on your opinions in this matter.\

For reasons of brevity and to keep things simple, we will refer to this PM sequel as "PM 2.0" for now (regardless if it ever comes to fruition or is named differently if it happens).

I'm also hoping this thread fosters the discussion of WHY a PM 2.0 is or is not warranted, and/or people's opinions on a PM 2.0. This isn't really a speculative for the content of a PM 2.0, but for will it exist at all.

 

[Substitution]

I'll put it this way.
We'll most likely get a "PM 2.0". Probably with a Brawl and 64 mods to accommodate it.
And knowing us, the Wii U will come first, and the 3DS either never happening, or being a side project.

 

[Xermo]

Not sure if another topic has been made on this

Well there has and the answer has always been the same: not likely.

 

[TimeSmash]

So the question is: Do you actually want the hack? My view is that I do, but I'm also interested in playing Smash 4 as is.

 

[LancerStaff]

Both Project M and B are inevitable with SSB's horribly whiny fanbase.

 

[ndayday]

Way I see it is PM is basically its own game. Relies on Brawl sure but for all purposes it is a unique and polished game.
ignoring the question of whether a modding scene can happen/if SSB4 will be good enough where people don't see the need to mod it;
I'd say Yes, I would be ok with a polished, fan developed Smash game that is easy to use and fun since to me it's just another option, not a replacement.

Also if this turns into game vs. game or 'X game is ___' like this (consider this a warning, LancerStaff):

Both Project M and B are inevitable with SSB's horribly whiny fanbase.

then this will be closed.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Both Project M and B are inevitable with SSB's horribly whiny fanbase.

The demand for a "Project B" won't be nearly as high since most Brawl players will most likely end up content with Smash 4.

With Project M's success however I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Project M "2" with Smash 4 hacked to play similarly to Melee.

 

[LancerStaff]

Way I see it is PM is basically its own game. Relies on Brawl sure but for all purposes it is a unique and polished game.
ignoring the question of whether a modding scene can happen/if SSB4 will be good enough where people don't see the need to mod it;
I'd say Yes, I would be ok with a polished, fan developed Smash game that is easy to use and fun since to me it's just another option, not a replacement.

Also if this turns into game vs. game or 'X game is ___' like this (consider this a warning, LancerStaff):


then this will be closed.

Er, sorry. I wasn't trashing PM though, just the entire SSB fanbase. I can't stand us.

 

[Khao]

I don't care if it happens or not.

The only think I can hope for is that we don't "need" it.

 

[praline]

I hope not cause Project M is kinda dumb.

 

[TimeSmash]

Way I see it is PM is basically its own game. Relies on Brawl sure but for all purposes it is a unique and polished game.
ignoring the question of whether a modding scene can happen/if SSB4 will be good enough where people don't see the need to mod it;
I'd say Yes, I would be ok with a polished, fan developed Smash game that is easy to use and fun since to me it's just another option, not a replacement.

Also if this turns into game vs. game or 'X game is ___' like this (consider this a warning, LancerStaff):


then this will be closed.

In reference to the bolded part: yes that's exactly what I'm thinking, although I do know some people (albeit very few) who enjoy Brawl and PM equally which I totally respect. I think PM is its own game too, and was wondering what the want/probability of a new game arising from Smash 4 is.

And I totally don't want this to turn into a flame war, please give a couple warnings before you close it, but I will completely understand if it does get closed.

The demand for a "Project B" won't be nearly as high since most Brawl players will most likely end up content with Smash 4.

With Project M's success however I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a Project M "2" with Smash 4 hacked to play similarly to Melee.

Another question is, will "PM 2.0" be based on Melee? Or will it be based on the original PM?

Editing the OP now or shortly, because PM 2.0 is a much easier term to deal with. Thanks TRG! ^_^

Edit: This is what I mean

I hope not cause Project M is kinda dumb.

Don't post stuff like this please, regardless of your stance. If you don't like one of the games or think one game is better than the other, state it politely and don't spark a flame war. (Or add gasoline to one that may arise)

 

[StarshipGroove]

The PMBR already stated that they will not develop mods for Smash 4 and I doubt someone else will pick up the torch. SSB4 also will not need a P:M version, because:

1: SSB4 looks like a good competitive game
2: P:M already exists, and has its own perks that make it a worthwhile experience. (over five exclusive new characters... once they're ready to be shown)

I wouldn't mind though. Roy and Mewtwo = awesome.

 

[TimeSmash]

The PMBR already stated that they will not develop mods for Smash 4 and I doubt someone else will pick up the torch. SSB4 also will not need a P:M version, because:

1: SSB4 looks like a good competitive game
2: P:M already exists, and has its own perks that make it a worthwhile experience. (over five exclusive new characters... once they're ready to be shown)

I wouldn't mind though. Roy and Mewtwo = awesome.

Could you send me a link where the PMBR states that? I'd look for it myself but I'm supposed to be studying, clearly going really well haha.

 

[ProjectAngel]

Whether or not we actually "need" a Project M 2.0 will depend on how well SSB4 does in the competitive scene.

 

[Banjodorf]

I think we need to see:

A. The state of the game and how its competitive scene develops post-release.

B. Whether such hacking of Wii Us even ends up being possible to the same degree.

 

[JediLink]

I don't think a large-scale overhaul is going to be necessary. Sakurai is clearly capable of great things when he puts all his effort into it, and this time around, it really does look like he's paying proper attention to the gameplay. Smash 4 will turn out fine.

That doesn't mean that there can't or shouldn't be relatively minor mods, though.

 

[HatsuneMiku]

It depends; Brawl needed Project M because it left out a rather large group of competitive players, it was too focused on the casual crowd. But with SSB4 so far you can see that they're trying to win back the competitive crowd with features such as Final Destination versions of stages, For Glory Mode and Global Rankings. The gameplay in SSB4 has also been sped up drastically (The Mario VS Megaman on Battlefield clip from last years E3 shows this the best) it's not as fast as Melee, but the "competitive" effort is there. Hitstun might have been added back as well (I have yet to see a clip where a character immetdiately air dodges after taking a knockback) It's unknown if L-Cancelling will return though, and the air dodging mechanic is still the same as Brawl. But those two aside, the gameplay changes have been made for the better for competitive players.

We might get a "Project M" for SSB4, but it doesn't need it as much as Brawl did.

 

[StarshipGroove]

@ TimeSmash It's not confirmed that they will fill all the slots, to tell the truth, but there are 7 slots available for newcomers, with new sound effects, records and everything. There have been rumors on which new characters they are working on too.

Several PMBR members have been monitoring the clone engine thread in the PM section in order to find out who are the most wanted newcomers.

Also there's this, but maybe you read it already
http://projectmgame.com/en/news/clone-engine-blogpost-limits-restrictions-and-possibilities

 

[Road Death Wheel]

It depends; Brawl needed Project M because it left out a rather large group of competitive players, it was too focused on the casual crowd. But with SSB4 so far you can see that they're trying to win back the competitive crowd with features such as Final Destination versions of stages, For Glory Mode and Global Rankings. The gameplay in SSB4 has also been sped up drastically (The Mario VS Megaman on Battlefield clip from last years E3 shows this the best) it's not as fast as Melee, but the "competitive" effort is there. Hitstun might have been added back as well (I have yet to see a clip where a character immetdiately air dodges after taking a knockback) It's unknown if L-Cancelling will return though, and the air dodging mechanic is still the same as Brawl. But those two aside, the gameplay changes have been made for the better for competitive players.

We might get a "Project M" for SSB4, but it doesn't need it as much as Brawl did.

What this guy/girl said. I think a PM will only arise if there is a need for it. If the competitive scene ends up being pretty good this time around i don't think PM 2.0 will happen.

 

[TimeSmash]

^This is super helpful, thank you!

 

[DaDavid]

This is a lot of posts for something that is basically "yes for all the same reasons PM 1.0 existed."

Even if this game is "better" for the competitive scene than Brawl was, people are still going to want that PM feel but with the new stuff.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

This is a lot of posts for something that is basically "yes for all the same reasons PM 1.0 existed."

Even if this game is "better" for the competitive scene than Brawl was, people are still going to want that PM feel but with the new stuff.

Thats a very narrow thought process why not have a PM 0.5 for 64 players who want that PM feel.

 

[QuickRat]

Both Project M and B are inevitable with SSB's horribly whiny fanbase.

Nobody wants Project B. On the other hand, lots of people were asking for a Brawl version with Melee physics and speed. And, also, nobody wanted a Project 64 to make Melee more likely to SSB. I don't think the funbase was horrible. Sakurai's work was horrible in some aspects, such as tripping, over-powering Meta Knight, etc.

 

[DaDavid]

Thats a very narrow thought process why not have a PM 0.5 for 64 players who want that PM feel.

So, players who want that PM feel but with less stuff? Yeah that makes sense. It's not like they added 64 stages into PM to get some of that anyway right?

 

[Morbi]

I honestly don't see "Project M 2.0" happening. I wouldn't mind, as again, it is just another option. The demand isn't really there; it might not be there until much later into Smash 4's life cycle.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

So, players who want that PM feel but with less stuff? Yeah that makes sense. It's not like they added 64 stages into PM to get some of that anyway right?

Hmm perhaps i came off rude witch was not my intent. But what im saying is that PM was made becasue Brawl was Considered fundamentally flawed. Unless smash 4 is the same case i don't see them doing so. Plus making a PM 2.0 could more than trigger a cease and desist with PM is desperately trying to avoid especialy when addressing the topic of back logging characters from smash 4.

 

[Hippopotasauce]

By the time the Wii U is hacked, Smash 6 will be on the shelves.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Isn't the Wii U/3DS firmware designed to be so impenetrable that hackers haven't found a way to break into the system yet?

 

[TimeSmash]

Isn't the Wii U/3DS firmware designed to be so impenetrable that hackers haven't found a way to break into the system yet?

"Yet" is what this whole topic is based on so far haha. I'm just assessing the want/need of a [hypothetical] PM 2.0 on these boards.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Isn't the Wii U/3DS firmware designed to be so impenetrable that hackers haven't found a way to break into the system yet?

Hackers busted into the 3DS a few months after release. Said group is still trying the Wii U.

Of course, Ninty keeps finding ways to shut them down.

Anyway, I don't think we'll see a PM for Sm4sh, not that I want it.

 

[Khao]

Isn't the Wii U/3DS firmware designed to be so impenetrable that hackers haven't found a way to break into the system yet?

There's already piracy on the 3DS, I'd say it's just a matter of time until games can be modded.

 

[Metalbro]

Too early to say of it will.

I would be happy if it does become a thing.

 

[DaDavid]

Hmm perhaps i came off rude witch was not my intent. But what im saying is that PM was made becasue Brawl was Considered fundamentally flawed. Unless smash 4 is the same case i don't see them doing so. Plus making a PM 2.0 could more than trigger a cease and desist with PM is desperately trying to avoid especialy when addressing the topic of back logging characters from smash 4.

I guess I'm just not so certain that Brawl being flawed was the cause as much as Brawl not being enough like Melee. I mean the name (PM) is what it is for a reason. Assuming legal issues are not present (which I know is silly, but to simplify the conversation I think focusing on desire/interest is best), I kind of get the sense that PM 2.0 would still come around as long as Smash 4 is again, not enough like Melee.

Now whether it would get as much attention from players is in my opinion much more of a "wait and see" scenario. If Smash 4 is not Brawl levels of anti-competitive, it would probably still attract a larger fanbase which would stop people going to a modded version, even if a select few still saw it fit to create one.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I guess I'm just not so certain that Brawl being flawed was the cause as much as Brawl not being enough like Melee. I mean the name (PM) is what it is for a reason. Assuming legal issues are not present (which I know is silly, but to simplify the conversation I think focusing on desire/interest is best), I kind of get the sense that PM 2.0 would still come around as long as Smash 4 is again, not enough like Melee.

Now whether it would get as much attention from players is in my opinion much more of a "wait and see" scenario. If Smash 4 is not Brawl levels of anti-competitive, it would probably still attract a larger fanbase which would stop people going to a modded version, even if a select few still saw it fit to create one.

your right brawl is not flawed but it was definitely considered so by many melee fans alike. (im not a fan of ether since i feel both have there share of problems) Witch i believe was the drive of PM being made in the first place.

 

[SkywardStriker16]

In my opinion, if Sakurai has the ability to patch the game a PM 2.0 is obsolete. Unless, of course, hackers want to import cut characters and add different costumes.

Then again, Sakurai could potentially add all this stuff too through DLC. So two things not possible during Brawl (patches and DLC) are now possible with the Wii U. We'll probably find out in the coming months what's going to happen.

If it comes out, though, we likely won't see it until the middle of 2015 at the absolute earliest (HD engines might delay it even more).

 

[Road Death Wheel]

In my opinion, if Sakurai has the ability to patch the game a PM 2.0 is obsolete. Unless, of course, hackers want to import cut characters and add different costumes.

Then again, Sakurai could potentially add all this stuff too through DLC. So two things not possible during Brawl (patches and DLC) are now possible with the Wii U. We'll probably find out in the coming months what's going to happen.

If it comes out, though, we likely won't see it until the middle of 2015 at the absolute earliest (HD engines might delay it even more).

Saddy as long as people want wave dashing PM will probably not be "obsolete"

 

[DaDavid]

Patches only makes PM 2.0 obsolete if he patches in or out EXACTLY what the PM devs would add or remove. Or at least more or less the same things.

The modding scene exists not because the original product is objectively bad, but because a dedicated group sees them as being different from what they want. I personally enjoy PM from time to time because it is so different, but the fact that it is so different is what makes me believe a Smash 4 based one is inevitable. People are going to want to play the continuation of the thing they've already gotten used to, and the devs more than likely will not want to flat-out abandon their product either.

 

[PadWarrior]

I hope another doesn't come.

 

[Empyrean]

A PM 2.0 will never happen, or to be more accurate, will never match the original, this coming from an avid PM fan.

-As stated earlier, the PMBR has no intention to spend time and effort in coding a seemingly harder-to-make Wii U mod. Hell, they haven't even finished PM yet.
-No point in making the same game again for just a handful of newcomers and updated visuals.
-With the stricter environment the Wii U has, it will probably be a lot harder to make a fully-functionable mod without facing issues from Nintendo (I'm not too sure in this one).

Even if a different group of people wishes to make a PM-like mod, I don't really expect it to happen anytime soon, and it will likely not be as popular as the one we have now, which, quite frankly, is a miracle by itself.

In the unlikely event that such a project takes swing, I will be too busy playing the original and vanilla Smash 4.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Patches only makes PM 2.0 obsolete if he patches in or out EXACTLY what the PM devs would add or remove. Or at least more or less the same things.

The modding scene exists not because the original product is objectively bad, but because a dedicated group sees them as being different from what they want. I personally enjoy PM from time to time because it is so different, but the fact that it is so different is what makes me believe a Smash 4 based one is inevitable. People are going to want to play the continuation of the thing they've already gotten used to, and the devs more than likely will not want to flat-out abandon their product either.

Saddy if people want a PM 2.0 they would most likely have to stop updating there wiiu since literally the next update Nintendo will probably end up bricking the system or making the hack unaccessible