'Wiichuck' Legality - Five Smash 4 Pros Who Use It Weigh In

Editors Note: Wireless controllers were announced to be legal at Genesis 3 a while after this article was published. It is still a good read to learn about 'Wiichucks' and controller legality, and we hope readers still enjoy.

While wireless controllers have been legal in the past with Wavebird and Wii Remotes with Nunchuck being use, the six wireless options usable in Smash 4 have brought up issues with controller legality. With Genesis 3 banning the use of the Wii Remote and Nunchuck the discussion has heated up once again. We sat down with five professional Smash 4 players who use the 'Wiichuck' to get their thoughts on the situation.

• ScAtt - Mega Man Master, has wins over Wizzrobe, Mew2King, StaticManny, Acid, MVD and more. 4th place at Tipped Off 11. Has used a Wii Remote and Nunchuck setup for over seven years.
  
• ARC | Myran - Sponsored by Arcane eSports. He's also currently ranked 7th on the Florida Smash 4 Power Rankings. Has used a Wii Remote and Nunchuck setup for over seven years.
  
• TearBear - Currently ranked 6th on the SoCal Smash 4 Power Rankings. Double eliminated Nietono at Evo 2015. Has used a Wii Remote and Nunchuck setup for over seven years.
  
• Kamicario - One of the best Smash 4 Lucario players in the world. Has had close sets with TSM | ZeRo. Has used a Wii Remote and Nunchuck setup for over five years.
  
• Player 7 - Currently undefeated in prized tournaments in Brazil since Smash 4's release. Brazil's best Smash 4 player. Has used a Wii Remote and Nunchuck setup for over seven years.

These players have a total of thirty three years of experience using the controller in various environments and had a lot to say on its legality. Let's take a look at all their thoughts on this issue.

Wii Remote and Nunchuck - Pros​

Player 7: I truly believe Wiichucks are better. First thing is because the position of the buttons. A controller where you can jump with one hand and attack with other gives you GREAT mobility. Other is the DI/SDI is much better in the Wiichucks, since you have both of your thumbs always in.

Tearbear: I had tried using all the controllers to see which felt the most natural to me and Wiichuk was the one.

ScAtt: The Wiimote + Nunchuk set-up is actually really flexible in terms of being able to hold the controller in different positions. It's not hard at all to play standing up and you never have to worry about a controller getting snagged anywhere. I'm prone to moving a lot when I play and being able to freely move my controller gives me a sense of control over my actions that I don't feel otherwise.

Kamicario: I love how the c-stick is the d-pad The inputs are also very quick since its a single button tap instead of pushing a stick in a direction. It doesn't have the new mechanic for GCC's where you lose control of your character by pressing the c stick in a direction for a smash. I also enjoy that all my defense/movement options are on the left side with my Nunchuk (jump, shield, and control stick) while my attack options are on the right with the Wiimote (A, B, dpad for smashes, and grabbing). Another huge bonus is you can have your arms in about any position you want.

Myran: Well I like the overall feel of it in my hands, the Gamecube Controller feels clunky. I also prefer most of the buttons/analog stick as opposed to the Gamecube Controller. Especially the Z button and Nunchuck analog stick, but having the d-pad for smashes instead of a c-stick allows me a layer of safety that I won't accidentally hit a diagonal direction and make a tech error. Overall it just feels better than any other controller I use.

Issues In Tournaments​

Player 7: Only recently I'm having some issues because of the number of wireless controllers now with Smash 4. There's some sort of bug that when there's too many of them, you start to have some miss inputs in the middle of the match. But by resetting your controller configuration you get rid of that. Other than this one, no problems at all.

Tearbear: I never had any issues with holding up tournaments since I was pretty good about taking my batteries out after any friendly or tournament set and I was pretty good about making sure my batteries were fresh. If anything people would look for me if a Wii needed to be started lol. The only problem Wiimotes suffer from is from excessive wireless interference like microwaves or sometimes stream equipment. It causes my Wiimote to not be so responsive and gives me miss inputs.

ScAtt: There were several cases where wireless interference played a huge role in my own personal performance. As far as issues involving disruption of other matches, it almost never occurred.

Kamikario: At Low tier city a few months ago I was playing Ally and in game 1 I noticed I had maybe a second or more input delay per input. I noticed his phone was directly on the Wii U and I guessed that might be it, so next game I asked him to move his phone and switch seats, the problem was fixed instantly. So from now on I always ask people to move their phones, lol. But outside of that, I have NEVER had an issue like the controller staying connected after a set because I remove the batteries instantly to make sure.

Myran: I have never personally had issues at tournaments. I'm pretty careful about making sure I take my batteries out. It was actually never an issue of being allowed until EVO happened this year, then TBH5 disallowed them, and no G3 is saying the same. I do know at some locals wireless controllers have been left on before, but it's always Pro Controllers, Wiimotes are far less prominent.

"Just Learn To Play With The Gamecube Controller" - Response ​

Player 7: I also play melee, therefore I know how to play with the GC controller, so not allowing wireless controllers in Genesis wouldn't be a problem at all. Most of people who say to learn the GC have no clue what the Wiimote and Nunchuck are capable of.

Tearbear: Of course I prefer Wiichuk but i had to switch to GameCube for MLG in the Brawl days and actually did pretty good it. I still would have liked to see how I would have done with Wiichuk. I definitely tried using it in friendlies at MLG but the interference was strong in the venue so probably not the best idea.

ScAtt: "Just learn the Wiimote controller." Trust me, it's easier said than done. I personally do think that it's unreasonable to have to switch off a controller that I've been comfortable with for 7+years, but I do understand the risks of picking this controller. If I'm not able to enjoy the game while playing with the controller that works for me then I'd gladly wait for the next available tournament that allows their use. I completely understand that they can be hassle for certain TOs to deal with but as long as an individual player is responsible it really should not be a problem.

Kamicario: Yeah, it's extremely annoying to hear that. It could take months for someone who has been using wiichuk as long as I have to play 100% with a GameCube controller. The c-stick isn't in the same place, the buttons I'm used to having on the left side aren't there, and the triggers just feel so wrong to me. I think it's somewhat ignorant to say that when they aren't in my situation but I may have to learn the GCC if national tournaments continue to ban wireless.

Myran: That's a ridiculous thing to ask. Learning a new controller can be difficult by itself, but I've been using this setup for 7 years. For 6 of them I ran into no issues. You wouldn't want me to tell you to pick up Wiimote, so don't tell me to pick up GameCube Controller. Some people just don't like using the controller. I don't use the GameCube controller because I don't like using it, and it's harder for me to use efficiently. I'm not going to change, because some people won't look to compromise.

Can There Be Compromise?​

Player 7: Well, if they could made an exception for me I would really appreciate it but as I said I can handle myself with the GCC.

Tearbear: I've attended Genesis 1 and 2 and I don't recall any problems. I feel like the small amount that truly care could be monitored with registration or something.

ScAtt: Definitely. There was a great suggestion by Myran where any players with wireless controllers were to be marked upon signing in; that way, it would be easier to track who's causing a disruption in the tournament.

Kamicario: I'd just like to find a solution that works with TO's so the dedicated minority of wireless users are not punished because of lack of knowledge of the newcomers. I think we should also try and fix that lack of knowledge instead of outright ban everyone using it. That's my opinion.

Myran: A good way to help identify and keep track of wireless controller users could be to have them designate their controller when they sign up for the tournament. This allows the tournament staff to more easily locate the wireless controller users and make sure they turn off their controllers. As well as enforcing strict DQ rules for those who violate the rule once. It may not be the best solution, but it can help find a middle ground for everyone.

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A special thank you to all of these players for help with this article. Myran, Kamicario, ScAtt, Tearbear, and Player 7 can all be found on Twitter at the links provided. Now that they have spoke their minds it's time for the public to chime in! Take our poll, sound off in the comments below, and be sure to stay tuned to Smashboards for future articles!

 

Actually I thought of an added level of security. On top of marking them to easily locate them, after their match is played have them sync their controller to a dummy setup. All it takes is a wii u, that I'm sure one of us wouldn't mind bringing and they can watch us sync our remotes to that. Then the offchance of messing a match isn't really there.

Marking them doesn't help stop the problem, just makes identification easier once a problem comes up. Stopping the problem requires checking each controller after the match. Because not every area can spare an extra setup for syncs (either for lack of setups or lack of space), not til later into a tournament at least, that may not be feasible for some areas.

My suggestion of having all wireless controllers dismantled and put into clear boxes/bags after every match is feasible at any tourney level. 10 man weekly and MLG could both run with that. I think you guys should push for that or something similar. Again, simply marking controllers or registering them at the front doesn't solve anything, so something stronger is needed (registering controllers is not a terrible idea but it addresses responsibility instead of stopping issues)

 

As someone who has organized a tournament of more than 50 people on a regular basis, including TOing for CEO, wireless controllers are one of the fewest problems I had. You know what caused me more problems? Players showing up late to the pool, players waiting for their match on stream which holds up the bracket, and players that don't report their matches at all. As a tournament organizer wireless controllers should be something you learn to deal with, wiichucks are the least problematic because once you remove the batteries that it's it. 80% of the time if they don't remove the batteries the only problem is when the characters are still on the character select screen and not during an actual match.

Wii-U Pro Controllers can be solved by using the USB cord solution that Genesis is doing, it allows people to use their controllers but also trying to remedy the issue. Banning a controller simply because you as a TO doesn't know how to handle it comes off badly for multiple reasons. It can come off as you don't care for the minority of players that use said controllers and also that you don't have the means to handle the situation properly. At my tournaments if their controllers disrupts a match (even on the character select screen) because they did not desync then they get dq'd from winners or the tournament depending on where they are in bracket. Since I have started implementing this rule, I rarely have a wireless controller issue.

 

Since I have started implementing this rule, I rarely have a wireless controller issue.

Rarely =/= Never. That's not an acceptable margin of error for larger tournaments to roll with, if they have an alternative which is safer. It's not like MLG looks down on Wireless controller players and simply wants to punish them: there's solid logic in wanting your tournament to run with as few potential problems as possible.

 

Rarely =/= Never. That's not an acceptable margin of error for larger tournaments to roll with, if they have an alternative which is safer. It's not like MLG looks down on Wireless controller players and simply wants to punish them: there's solid logic in wanting your tournament to run with as few potential problems as possible.

No one would have a problem if wireless problems only affected the user.

Interesting I never said rarely = never, not sure where you read in my two paragraphs that I implied that. O_o This is a thread where people state why they want wireless / wiichuck to be legal and most of your posts are just attempts to shut down their argument.

 

Rarely =/= Never. That's not an acceptable margin of error for larger tournaments to roll with, if they have an alternative which is safer. It's not like MLG looks down on Wireless controller players and simply wants to punish them: there's solid logic in wanting your tournament to run with as few potential problems as possible.

Actually when I wrote my post on the G3 fb page I go into more detail about how once the players are marked the pool captains/tournament staff can pay attention to the players in their area. There isn't a large amount of wiimote users, and with a little added effort it can be prevented. All it takes is staff who are willing to be watchful of their players, and pay attention when those marked do play.

 

hahah
happy thanksgiving guys
hope you enjoy spending it by taking your argument a bit over the top

 

Interesting I never said rarely = never, not sure where you read in my two paragraphs that I implied that. O_o This is a thread where people state why they want wireless / wiichuck to be legal and most of your posts are just attempts to shut down their argument.

Wasn't about you implying stuff never happens. The point was that larger tournaments don't want to accept even rare issues if they have alternatives that remove the risk. Someone like MLG would prefer never vs rare, even if it alienates a portion of the players.

MLG can remove the risk of wireless controller problems by banning them. Smash community doesn't generally have a 100% foolproof method to eliminate wireless controller issues on a larger scale.

Having staff check wiimotes for batteries removed or desynched after every match is an idea, but it may not be convincing enough until tournaments are consistently run without issues due to wireless controllers. Not just match disruptions or random controllers coming on, but inputs being dropped for other wireless players due to signal congestion.

 

Wasn't about you implying stuff never happens. The point was that larger tournaments don't want to accept even rare issues if they have alternatives that remove the risk. Someone like MLG would prefer never vs rare, even if it alienates a portion of the players.

MLG can remove the risk of wireless controller problems by banning them. Smash community doesn't generally have a 100% foolproof method to eliminate wireless controller issues on a larger scale.

Having staff check wiimotes for batteries removed or desynched after every match is an idea, but it may not be convincing enough until tournaments are consistently run without issues due to wireless controllers. Not just match disruptions or random controllers coming on, but inputs being dropped for other wireless players due to signal congestion.

Ehh the wireless interference making inputs drop shouldn't really be a cause for banning them either. That's at the players discretion to use at that point, and if it happens they knew well ahead of time. If they didn't know it's the players fault for not doing adequate research, and they can hold that L they just got.

 

Ehh the wireless interference making inputs drop shouldn't really be a cause for banning them either. That's at the players discretion to use at that point, and if it happens they knew well ahead of time. If they didn't know it's the players fault for not doing adequate research, and they can hold that L they just got.

Well it's not just how it impacts the player or what responsibility they have, but the impact on the tournament. They don't care if you can accept responsibility for dropped inputs, latency, or any possible personal drawback of using wireless. They care about bottom line for running the tourney.

Missing inputs or lag because you're wireless isn't a problem from tourney standpoint, but it would start to be an issue if sync times took longer or if your inputs overlap someone else or xyz that impacts tournament quality.

Convincing MLG or some larger tournament series to allow wireless (or even just wii-chuck) is more than just presenting a case that shows a gameplan for making sure they power off or desync correctly. You have to make a strong case that there won't be disruptions with the controllers as they are active while playing.

If you can make both cases, you've won the ability to basically use them without many reservations.

 

Well it's not just how it impacts the player or what responsibility they have, but the impact on the tournament. They don't care if you can accept responsibility for dropped inputs, latency, or any possible personal drawback of using wireless. They care about bottom line for running the tourney.

Missing inputs or lag because you're wireless isn't a problem from tourney standpoint, but it would start to be an issue if sync times took longer or if your inputs overlap someone else or xyz that impacts tournament quality.

Convincing MLG or some larger tournament series to allow wireless (or even just wii-chuck) is more than just presenting a case that shows a gameplan for making sure they power off or desync correctly. You have to make a strong case that there won't be disruptions with the controllers as they are active while playing.

If you can make both cases, you've won the ability to basically use them without many reservations.

The thing is that large scale tournaments like Apex, CEO, and STR have run them successfully. Also MLG who previously did not allow them for Brawl, changed their stance for Smash 4 allowing it. It's something that can be and has been done, but certain TO's would rather not do it. Being stubborn about change isn't always the best thing.

 

Until Sm4sh 3DS came out, I used a wiichuck because (1) that's what I learned to play with and (2) I'm left handed. Are you taking lefties into account?

It took me a while to accustom to a GCC/3DS because the stick and the buttons were on opposite sides of the controller.

 

Until Sm4sh 3DS came out, I used a wiichuck because (1) that's what I learned to play with and (2) I'm left handed. Are you taking lefties into account?

It took me a while to accustom to a GCC/3DS because the stick and the buttons were on opposite sides of the controller.

I'm a lefty who uses GCC no johns lmao

 

Thats wrong.
Generally I've never heard of tournaments in europe banning wireless controllers. It's just unreasonable. It's a lack of responsibility from the TO's to ban them. When TO's ban them, it's like saying "we don't care to handle that".

But everything has solutions. People should not be screwed out of a tournament just because of they controller choice. (same for their main @Mii's *cough*)
The controller options for the WiIU are really unique and so everyone can choose from the best suited option for them.
Other consoles "Wireless controllers are banned" is not comparable with the WiiU for that reason. If you play wireless on xboxone or wired, your layout stays the same. It's not the same uniqueness you experience on the WiiU.

Possibly solutions:
First: Make sure everyone has their controller registered. If you know who plays with wireless controllers you can track it easier.

Second: The TO's (or his helpers) need to own a WiiU Pro Controller for such circumstances anyway. Thats not only for users not being smart enough to deync, but for trolls who sync with consoles to cause annoyance. (Home -> Controller-Options -> change order to desync all wireless controllers connected)

Third There needs to be a rule that wiimote user are DQd if they fail to put the batteries out of their wiimote.

For WiiU Pro Controller you can enforce the wired wiiu pro controller claused used on most tournaments.
On smaller scale tournaments you can use a "Desync Set-up" on the Result-Desk. You can sync to a WiiU on the desk to prevent your wireless controller to be connected to Tournament WiiU's right after you played your tournament match. We're about to test that in germany.

There are a lot of solution. TO's just need to stop being lazy and outright ban everything thats different, because they don't want to look or think about solutions.

You gotta take into account the large entrant amount, it's not the run of the mill 50+ tourney in a local area or a 100+ of a state recognized tourney. It's a major event, where many faces you've never met and different preferences will arise. Maybe someone has a weird sitting arrangement? But to keep track of who uses certain controllers is time consuming. Tournament Organizers wanna enjoy their masterpiece such as an event with stacked skill. Even if there were many "helpers" mistakes will be made and unnecessary bans will happen and might cause public outcry. So to avoid the hassle of making mistakes and keeping time strictly in their favor, they banned wireless controllers. Although all these people say they will be courteous, we are only human and eventually an amount of people will make the mistake. If you feel it's incorrect, remember the TO is just doing what he/she feels is the best decision.

 

You gotta take into account the large entrant amount, it's not the run of the mill 50+ tourney in a local area or a 100+ of a state recognized tourney. It's a major event, where many faces you've never met and different preferences will arise. Maybe someone has a weird sitting arrangement? But to keep track of who uses certain controllers is time consuming. Tournament Organizers wanna enjoy their masterpiece such as an event with stacked skill. Even if there were many "helpers" mistakes will be made and unnecessary bans will happen and might cause public outcry. So to avoid the hassle of making mistakes and keeping time strictly in their favor, they banned wireless controllers. Although all these people say they will be courteous, we are only human and eventually an amount of people will make the mistake. If you feel it's incorrect, remember the TO is just doing what he/she feels is the best decision.

I mean going by the it might still cause a disruption logic isn't great. Anything could happen, someone could trip over a gamecube controller and destroy a setup. I'm obviously going for an extreme, but my point is that if TOs want to advertise that they're putting on a top tier tournament series that should be trying to cater to all forms of entrants. Especially when you have large scale ones like G3. This isn't some major, it has Japan, EU, Mexico, and more coming. By banning wiimotes you restrict a small portion, some of which are top players in their own right. This doesn't allow for a tournament that encompasses all of the worlds best. I strongly believe a solution could be achieved, but the head TO's just are choosing to not try and compromise.

 

I mean going by the it might still cause a disruption logic isn't great. Anything could happen, someone could trip over a gamecube controller and destroy a setup. I'm obviously going for an extreme, but my point is that if TOs want to advertise that they're putting on a top tier tournament series that should be trying to cater to all forms of entrants. Especially when you have large scale ones like G3. This isn't some major, it has Japan, EU, Mexico, and more coming. By banning wiimotes you restrict a small portion, some of which are top players in their own right. This doesn't allow for a tournament that encompasses all of the worlds best. I strongly believe a solution could be achieved, but the head TO's just are choosing to not try and compromise.

It really does suck that not every talent will be shown, but hey try to host your own major tourney. Maybe we'll see the pressure they go through when they had to decide on the wireless controller ban. Btw it's all wireless controllers!!! Including 3DSs and Pro Controllers (unless connected by a USB) are all banned.

 

It really does suck that not every talent will be shown, but hey try to host your own major tourney. Maybe we'll see the pressure they go through when they had to decide on the wireless controller ban. Btw it's all wireless controllers!!! Including 3DSs and Pro Controllers (unless connected by a USB) are all banned.

Yeah, the main thing that gets me is that it's ridiculously difficult to get multiple countries to come for a tournament, especially Japan. So if I can't go to this it could be months or more before I get to play them. I've gotten to the point where I've lost a bit of respect for the heads TOs. It's quite infuriating, but they won't listen to what anyone has to say so nothing I can do really.

 

lets just ban players who dont follow the gamecube religion
[/sarcasm]
what's next? only allowing specific builds/pallets of gamecube controlers?

 

I'm late to the party, but...

For what I can see, the only problem with Wiichuck is due to wireless interference. And if that's the only problem, then that's something a wireless player has to take into account and a decision those players has to determine themselves.

Why have a rule preventing "bad" controllers? That doesn't make sense to me.

...and this is why I want a wired Pro controller. I have had interference myself; happened when I played with friends in a large room with projector. I think I was sitting too far from the console.

(The Xbox One controller will send inputs through the USB cable. Hey, Nintendo, use this feature as well)

 

They should build portable Faraday Cages/Curtains and shield the players from each other lol

 

I use the wiimote alone and there should be no reason anything is banned.

 

I personally use the wii u gamepad, and I agree with the mobility statement. I have a gc controller, but I find it not as good as the gc one, I find it clunky....

 

They should build portable Faraday Cages/Curtains and shield the players from each other lol

lol, but to be real with that, that would cut off all the wirelesss user players off from the wii itself, better solution would be to cage the console AND players inside it to close off outside 2.4GHz radio waves from the console and players, since every wireless consumer thing runs off that frequency aside from garage openers which runs on 900 MHz