Why this illegal?

[voorhese]

If as you plug in your controller you ever so slightly hold down a trigger, then any bit of holding it down b4 it clicks into place and has your normal shield you will have a very large light shield. So basically instead of the slightest holding of a trigger being your full size light shield, it is like that up until the trigger clicks. I don't see why this is banned. Besides people being like "we don't want noobs being able to abuse light shield". It just makes it easier to have a large light shield on reaction. Also holding the other shield down all the way makes light shields disabled, why is this not allowed either?

 

[CloneHat]

Who says it's illegal? I however, need my medium shield.

 

[voorhese]

It is considered a "soft-mod" and those are generally banned.

Also, i am curious what for? And even if you do need it, I think mastering being able to shield with both triggers while soft modding them differently would be really strong.

 

[rjgbadger]

Needing another shield button would ruin my fox claw. theres's no way my pinky has the dexterity for using R

More on topic: just learn to light shield like a man and not essentially create your own button for it

 

[Dart!]

IMO no one would call you out on it but idk if it would be effective vs shield break saavy characters.

 

[CloneHat]

That's a good idea. A medium shield is for when I want to defend myself at an angle and also shieldgrab. Having all three would be optimal, but I guess we already do.

 

[voorhese]

Can you do a full size lightshield on reaction with out buffering it from Z badger?

 

[voorhese]

Dart, Light shield pushes you away from shield pressure, they won't be able to break your shield.

 

[Gea]

Can you do a full size lightshield on reaction with out buffering it from Z badger?

Yes, you can. Just have gentle fingers.

 

[voorhese]

I wasn't asking if it possible. I was asking badger if he could do it.

 

[Gea]

Well I'll answer for myself. Yes, I can.

 

[voorhese]

I would like to see that. I don't think many people in the heat of the moment can, and that's why you mostly see people (pros included) angling shields instead.

 

[Dart!]

Dart, Light shield pushes you away from shield pressure, they won't be able to break your shield.

If you light shield a shield breaker from marth as jiggs....gg

 

[voorhese]

Does it really break the shield in one hit that is just tapping b? Also I don't thing puff should be shielding much to begin with.

 

[Gea]

They angle shields because lightshielding makes it harder to counterattack OoS and lightshields take more damage (despite looking bigger) than regular shields. There are lots of relatively situational techskill things that are often underused because people have other options they are more comfortable with.

 

[voorhese]

I don't know about the 1st part. A lot of times they even do it when they are on platforms and they need to shield a move coming through the platform they can't even punish. As for the more damage, the idea of the lightshield is to push you away, sure you will take more from each individual hit, but you will take less hits.

 

[rjgbadger]

Can you do a full size lightshield on reaction with out buffering it from Z badger?

If I recall correctly a 'perfect light shield' can only be obtained via Z buffer. Regardless my light shields are just as effective at being light, if and when I even choose to do them.

The point is: One shouldn't need any kind of controller mod to perform a technique implemented in the game

 

[voorhese]

I don't buy that. Very few people actually implement light shield. As for not needing it sure, it is possible. But imo the game rewards people for playing smart, sitting down and practicing barely pressing your shield is just a waste of time because using a soft mod like this doesnt give anyone an advantage anyone else wouldn't be able to do.

 

[rjgbadger]

I believe playing smart IS sitting down and practicing literally everything a character is able to do, and that includes the ability to light shield if desired. To me its like asking for a wavedash button so you don't need to learn it, instead just map a button to it.

 

[voorhese]

Not quite the same thing, because that would be a HARD mod. This is a soft mod. Are you saying that if your R button keeps a light shield out everytime you press R, and you disable it by holding down the button as you plug in your controller you are cheating by fixing your controller?

also as far "you should be able to do it every time perfectly by just lightly pressing L or R", let's go ahead and ban buffering it to then. Or at least if that is your opinion then never buffer a light shield.

or while we are at it lets ban clawing your controller. everyone should be able to multi shine by going from B -> X like me.

 

[rjgbadger]

Hard mod=MOD
Soft mod=MOD

I just see no difference, as both changing the controller to do something not 100% intended.

If your controller is broken get a new one. Doing what you described is acceptable so long as you don't use R for anything.

Let's ban jumping with Y of X too, since we can do it with the control stick then. In fact, let's ban l cancelling with anything but Z, as well as aerial attacks with A because we can use Z

 

[Bones0]

This isn't banned. People do it all the time. Light shielding is underused, but I doubt it has anything to do with difficulty. People are just close-minded and won't use a mechanic unless they see other people doing it. That's why it took 8+ years before shield tilting was even relevant.

 

[voorhese]

Hard mod=MOD
Soft mod=MOD

I just see no difference, as both changing the controller to do something not 100% intended.

If your controller is broken get a new one. Doing what you described is acceptable so long as you don't use R for anything.

Well isn't clawing "not holding the controller as intended"? also how do you know it wasn't intended to be able to plug your controller in while holding down a button to gain this effect?

as for bones, I was told it was illegal by our TO because it is a soft mod. Also I still think that getting a close to as full size light shield as possible on reaction during an actual match is a feat not accomplished by many, because of difficulty. I do agree about shield tilting just not being used for a long time, it is possible that is the reason. I just don't see it being possible for EVERYONE to do it.

take the example I had with multishining while going from B -> X (not sliding from x->b). I can do that, but a lot of people can't so they claw their hand. What is the difference? If i can't perfect light shield on reaction, and because a claw wouldn't help me, but plugging my controller in while holding a button will. Everyone has the choice to claw in order to help with tech skill, and everyone has the choice on whether or not to hold a button down while plugging in their controller.

 

[Strong Badam]

This isn't banned. People do it all the time. Light shielding is underused, but I doubt it has anything to do with difficulty. People are just close-minded and won't use a mechanic unless they see other people doing it. That's why it took 8+ years before shield tilting was even relevant.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[voorhese]

Controller Mods, Glitches (IC Freeze Glitch, Mewtwo Soul Stunner, etc), and tactics used to stall a match (wall-bombing, rising pound), are banned.

I guess the question is would this be considered a mod? Because it is a soft mod. But I think they mean more like removing your springs, or something like that.

 

[Bones0]

I am confident that anyone who can learn the basic movement techs in Melee will have no problem learning to light shield on command. I've been doing it for a long time, and I almost never mess up.

Regardless, even if it was almost impossible to do without the trick, the trick is easily open to everyone. If ANY player can choose between an auto-light shield trigger, a default trigger, or a hard shield only trigger, what makes it ban-worthy? The reason mods are banned are because they give unfair advantages. Customizing my controller so that I can turbo multishines gives me an advantage others cannot obtain without also modding their controllers. Basically what it comes down to for me is everyone can EASILY replicate this "mod," so no one should care if people use it or not.


It's funny the TO banned this, honestly, because I've seen way more "intrusive" mods that were legal. I've seen people using Wii Nunchuck control sticks, double C-sticks, double control sticks, no rumble pack, etc.

 

[Strong Badam]

I don't know why Alex included that in his ruleset; it isn't included in the MBR ruleset and all of those are artifacts of past rulesets. There is now a generalized statement about preventing the game from continuing. It's also really amusing that he included the Mewtwo Soul Stunner, as that requires specific items to be present, which are all banned.

It's also an impossible to enforce rule, so it's fairly irrelevant.

 

[voorhese]

Thanks for the input guys, I will try to get it un-banned at my local tourneys, because I do see it the same way as you bones, and I was not aware it wasn't on the MBR rule list.

 

[Divinokage]

Well light shielding has a lot of shield stun and less HP right? And also it's not necessarily good because you'll find yourself near the ledge a lot faster than normally because of the push back. I don't see really the big deal out of this.

 

[ajp_anton]

How is this a "mod"? It's the same as remapping the buttons in Brawl. The same hardware is used, which everyone has access to. You only change something that everyone can do, according to what settings you prefer. One isn't necessarily always better than the other.

Also, I don't see how this will help you to lightshield. Resetting the L/R to depth x, then everything until x does *nothing* and the gradually stronger shield starts at x instead of 0 and gets interrupted earlier by the full "click" shield.
It does help you powershield easier though.

 

[voorhese]

What it does for me is this; From the normal large light shield range -> the smallest lightshield range it makes the lightshield full size. I prefer the largest lightshield i can get, and it is much easier for me to push down my button till it catches (but b4 it clicks) to do so. as for powershielding, if you hold down the button entirely you will not be able to lightshield, is that what you are talking about? cuz you can't powershield with a lightshield right?

 

[JPOBS]

i don't see why it would be banned. its not like lightsheilding is broken or anything. It has its advantages, but it also has it disadvantages.

 

[hectohertz]

plenty of players use different variations of this. i know of a very strong player who likes to disable lightshielding on only one of his shoulder buttons. there's a match with someone vs pp where pp let's the kid pause and disable his lightshielding. it's almost impossible for a TO to enforce a ban, as you can just hold down your triggers as you want them when you plug your controller in, or do it via a soft reset before a game


tl;dr lots of people do it no one seems to care

 

[Gea]

What the rule was referring to anyways was taking the springs out of the shoulders so you can powershield more easily.

 

[Jolteon]

This isn't a controller mod, I've never seen it banned either.

Bones is right. Lightshielding is underused, but it's mainly because most people are not innovative.

 

[Cactuar]

If the TO decides that it isn't legal, it isn't legal. It doesn't matter what your argument is at that point if the TO has already made the decision.

In the general competitive smash community, this is not viewed as something that needs to be banned. If your local TO wants it to be banned for whatever reason, you need to respect that decision.

 

[voorhese]

^ And I have. It's not like I used it behind their back, I just made a thread to get feedback on why it would be deemed illegal, so I could bring it up and talk about it with him later.

 

[Cactuar]

I think it is pretty widely known that the mod-ban lines are supposed to be applied strictly to macros and anything that allows a player to do things that other players cannot.


The "shaving" mod, where the control stick is shaved down to allow for extra range when moving it, should be banned.

Rounding out the circle that holds the control stick using sandpaper, file, etc should also be banned as the physical input range is changed.

These are things that alter the input range to be higher than what is used by everyone else. The intention here is to allow the player to do things that other players cannot with a standard controller.


Removal of trigger springs or modification of rubber buttons to allow for easier button pressing is not something that should be banned.

Removal of any buttons on the controller to prevent accidental button pressing is not something that should be banned.

These are things that reduce the range of inputs available or alter the feel of an input without changing the functionality and physical requirement of hitting the button. At no point is a player using one of these mods able to do something anyone else cannot with the standard controller.

 

[voorhese]

Thanks Cactuar.

 

[Cactuar]

Np. I probably should have done a write up about it. That rule could definitely be more specific, but it has been around forever and doesn't come up too often.