Why Kirby is better than pikachu

[Karajan]

1) Apex 2013
2) Zenith 2013
3) Thanks for playing 2 2013
4) Smashacre-gluttony 2013
5) Perú National Tournament 2013 08 17
6) Apex 2014

2013:
Kikoshi king vs boom's pika in apex '13
keyboard king vs sensei's pika in zenith '13
star king vs everybody in TFP2 '13
mewtwo king vs everybody in smashacre '13
Papacho king VS Orlando's pika in peru '13,
Gerson's PIKA getting eliminated by a FALCON, he shoulda went KIRBY

2014:
Moyashi king vs boom's pika in apex '14
"I had better luck with kirby than with pika against moyashi's kirby when I was in Japan" - Isai

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

"Star King" You mean KillerKing

 

[Karajan]

"Star King" You mean KillerKing

Not true. Star king is asian. I have seen killer and he isn't asian.

 

[asianaussie]

Star king is asian.

that's what he wants you to think

don't fall into his trap

 

[MrMarbles]

its debatable but i think pika has an edge, but just a smaller edge than what most people give him credit for

 

[The Star King]

I'm half asian. Killer and I are definitely brothers though.

 

[B Link]

I agree with MrMarbles in that Pikachu still has a slight edge over Kirby.

What I will add, however, is that the above probably applies to high level play only. At lower levels of play, Kirby players who know utilt+bair can easily **** low level Pikachu players (which is why not a lot of new players choose to start out as Pikachu). I think this is because the advanced techniques for Pikachu are harder to perform initially.

 

[prisonchild]

for all the practice I put in with characters like fox and Yoshi I find it pretty frustrating to go up against lesser players that use Kirby and lose. I keep telling myself that if I improve I can overcome the difference (without really making adjustments in my game) but it seems like I have to be a solid three tiers above to beat them consistently when they use Kirby.


I actually (only once, thank god) considered maining Kirby, playing defensive and throwing out those massive hitboxes when my opponent approaches just to win.


it actually sucks, the two friends I play against that are decent both main Kirby and very rarely use anybody but him. here I am trying to develop my lesser characters so i'm consistently using like an eight character rotation and they stick with Kirby and play like a douche (ie tourney mode in friendlies). hard to develop characters in the lower tiers when they are that outmatched...


gah Kirby is the worst thing to ever happen to ssb64 (YES worse than hyrule). anybody else in the GTA down to play that uses other characters?

 

[mixa]

did you guys see kysk vs Sin quarter finals of kanto 2013? that match is hilarious. it's like that kirby got to top 8 by just standing under the side plat doing uptilts
no pika could do that

 

[BL!TZ]

for all the practice I put in with characters like fox and Yoshi I find it pretty frustrating to go up against lesser players that use Kirby and lose. I keep telling myself that if I improve I can overcome the difference (without really making adjustments in my game) but it seems like I have to be a solid three tiers above to beat them consistently when they use Kirby.


I actually (only once, thank god) considered maining Kirby, playing defensive and throwing out those massive hitboxes when my opponent approaches just to win.


it actually sucks, the two friends I play against that are decent both main Kirby and very rarely use anybody but him. here I am trying to develop my lesser characters so i'm consistently using like an eight character rotation and they stick with Kirby and play like a douche (ie tourney mode in friendlies). hard to develop characters in the lower tiers when they are that outmatched...


gah Kirby is the worst thing to ever happen to ssb64 (YES worse than hyrule). anybody else in the GTA down to play that uses other characters?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

^^lolthis

Both characters are dumb, one character is just easier to use.

 

[clubbadubba]

for all the practice I put in with characters like fox and Yoshi I find it pretty frustrating to go up against lesser players that use Kirby and lose. I keep telling myself that if I improve I can overcome the difference (without really making adjustments in my game) but it seems like I have to be a solid three tiers above to beat them consistently when they use Kirby.

If they beat you consistently then they are at least one tier above you in that matchup. And they are not a "lesser player" if they are beating you. That kind of mindset will hinder your improvement because you'll always be in a bad mental state when you play kirby. Accept the fact that a simple kirby play beats and outplays you. It will be much better in the long run for you if you change your mindset.

 

[prisonchild]

If they beat you consistently then they are at least one tier above you in that matchup. And they are not a "lesser player" if they are beating you. That kind of mindset will hinder your improvement because you'll always be in a bad mental state when you play kirby. Accept the fact that a simple kirby play beats and outplays you. It will be much better in the long run for you if you change your mindset.

I consistently 2-3 stock him if he uses any other character, even if i'm using like samus. he hates losing so he pretty much refuses to play with any other characters now.

funny part: I've won the majority of our (few) Kirby dittos

 

[clubbadubba]

Guess he's a kirby main. I don't mean to sound harsh or anything I just know that personally when I start thinking like that I play worse, and it seems like it happens for most players. If he beats you with kirby, you should be thinking "damn he's pretty good with kirby," not "man he's only winning because he's using kirby."

 

[prisonchild]

i'm thinking Kirby is a ******** character. if I can consistently lose with most of my characters, switch to Kirby who I barely play with and start winning then there is something wrong.


I maintain the position that playing defensive and abusing Kirby's ridiculous hitboxes is a cowards way of playing.

 

[Skrlx]

prisonchild forever a scrub

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

^^Your sig is perfect for this ^^

 

[BL!TZ]

i'm thinking Kirby is a ******** character. if I can consistently lose with most of my characters, switch to Kirby who I barely play with and start winning then there is something wrong.


I maintain the position that playing defensive and abusing Kirby's ridiculous hitboxes is a cowards way of playing.

Alright my last post was trollish so I'll make a serious one, lol.

If you're seriously having issues with Fox and Yoshi against Kirby, you have two options. You have to either tough it out and figure out why you're losing with those characters, or consider picking up someone else who might have an easier time. You're best bet would probably be Pikachu. Jigglypuff maybe.

As far your practice partners are concerned, I really can't see why you're complaining. Someone going their hardest against you is ideal for practice. It sucks when they beat you all the time, it just means there is room for improvement.

As a side note, I get to play against a try-hard Kirby frequently so I understand that it can be frustrating. Just means that I'm getting outplayed and I need to work on things.

Edit: Defensive play is not "coward's" play. It requires a lot of subtle understanding of the game, and it can be incredibly exhausting playing like that over long periods of time. Sure it's not as entertaining, but to discredit it entirely is disrespectful.

 

[prisonchild]

Alright my last post was trollish so I'll make a serious one, lol.

If you're seriously having issues with Fox and Yoshi against Kirby, you have two options. You have to either tough it out and figure out why you're losing with those characters, or consider picking up someone else who might have an easier time. You're best bet would probably be Pikachu. Jigglypuff maybe.

As far your practice partners are concerned, I really can't see why you're complaining. Someone going their hardest against you is ideal for practice. It sucks when they beat you all the time, it just means there is room for improvement.

As a side note, I get to play against a try-hard Kirby frequently so I understand that it can be frustrating. Just means that I'm getting outplayed and I need to work on things.

Edit: Defensive play is not "coward's" play. It requires a lot of subtle understanding of the game, and it can be incredibly exhausting playing like that over long periods of time. Sure it's not as entertaining, but to discredit it entirely is disrespectful.

appreciate the response, and it's not the losing that i'm most frustrated with, it's just that i'm trying to develop more of my characters and only playing a defensive Kirby isn't the best way to do that... like I said if it was about the winning I would play only Kirby vs. him and win the majority of the time.


and that Kirby wouldn't happen to be revan would it?

 

[MATTS!]

Let the KING of all Kirby's Speak here. Lets settle all Kirby related problems with one post.

1st of all, KIRBY is KIRBY, if you can't beat Kirby, it's your own dumb fault. If Kirby is standing there up-tilting, are you that dumb to drop down into it, then you deserve to lose. As my brother ISAI said "Don't get Hit" Use you damn brains people.

Keyboard Kirby is fake all the way, the DI is unfair, along with pivot up-tilt. USE A CONTROLLER. (On behalf of Killer, since online doesn't matter, GO FOR IT!)(keyboard king and star king suck. thank you.)

Putting characters above other characters cause of a single move is the dumbest thing ever in the history of video games. This game has a hit-stun, DID YOU FORGET ABOUT THAT. Take away hit-stun see what happens.

Kirby is one of the easiest characters to kill. He floats back to the ledges really slow, and if you get a hit on Kirby while he's coming back, all Kirby has left is maybe a jump or two, and a up+b that you can easily knock back for a stock gone.

Kirby is 2nd to Jigglypuff for dying easy on up smashes and forward smashes. So light yet not noticeable.

To play and beat a Kirby, you gotta use the HIT-STUN to you advantage. If you can't combo learn smash 64. Like Luigi, you can do the up+a a few times and the CHEATING HEAD MOVE, and kill Kirby in 3 secs at at low 30%, AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO. Like my Brother ISAI said again, "DON"T GET HIT"

Defensive play and Offensive play, and Camping is not cheating, it's part of the game to AVOID ATTACKS. If you running towards a Kirby and you short hop drill or whatever and Kirby does a pivot up-tilt and you get caught, who's fault, YOURS, play it smart. Run into the Kirby but fake attack, back up real quick, and go in and counter. This is where SKILL comes into play.

If your still losing to a Kirby, than that means you need more practice.

Pikachu is not above anybody or below anybody, neither is any other character. You just gotta play it smart and practice, practice, practice. Takes HUGE amounts of time to learn all the different ways and movements to take out a character with spacing, attacks, where you are on the stage, and so many other things factor in.

Also id like to note nobody is better than anybody at any video game. They just have more practice in to know what to do with different attacks and moves at certain times. Anybody can learn anything anybody else knows to execute the same **** vs anything at any time.


This concludes Kirby and problems people talk about for years which is pointless.

Salty FOOLS! Would you like some Pepper with that?

The Great MATTS!

 

[Karajan]

Also id like to note nobody is better than anybody at any video game.

ROFL

Keyboard Kirby is fake all the way, the DI is unfair, along with pivot up-tilt. USE A CONTROLLER. (On behalf of Killer, since online doesn't matter, GO FOR IT!)(keyboard king and star king suck. thank you.)

you mean USE A PS2 CONTROLLER.

 

[The Star King]

appreciate the response, and it's not the losing that i'm most frustrated with, it's just that i'm trying to develop more of my characters and only playing a defensive Kirby isn't the best way to do that...

It's the best way to play against defensive Kirbies. If your Fox/Yoshi are struggling, then you need more training there.

Keyboard Kirby is fake all the way, the DI is unfair, along with pivot up-tilt. USE A CONTROLLER. (On behalf of Killer, since online doesn't matter, GO FOR IT!)(keyboard king and star king suck. thank you.)

lol, why does Killer get approval but not me. I never used keyboard on console. Only on emulator. I just want you to love me MATTS!...

 

[BL!TZ]

appreciate the response, and it's not the losing that i'm most frustrated with, it's just that i'm trying to develop more of my characters and only playing a defensive Kirby isn't the best way to do that... like I said if it was about the winning I would play only Kirby vs. him and win the majority of the time.


and that Kirby wouldn't happen to be revan would it?

Defensive players are much better for developing characters than aggressive ones, imo. Aggro guys lock you down, at least with someone defensive you don't get overwhelmed.

If it's not about winning then you shouldn't be complaining in the first place.

Ya, Revan is my brother.

 

[EggSelent]

If you play a campy, defensive style that involves bair, uptilt, and spking, it's easy to do well. Kirby can gimp Captain Falcon so hard with just those three moves really. Kirby has solid recovery, the cheapest up-tilt in the game, a nice down-tilt, and decent smash attacks. He is inherently resistant to up-tilt combos in particular, given his 5 jumps, low weight, and massive DI in the air. Outspace your opponent and be punishing at the ledge to win with kirby without a ton of "technical" skill in the game (see Mew2King).

 

[Karajan]

m2k had some decent tech skill, he di's hard and does a lot of fast fal xairs

 

[bloodpeach]

He had excellent techskill for techniques that work in melee. Approcahing with backwards using kirby's extra jumps (i.e. never turning around to face forward) isn't trivial for someone who has never played the game, but m2k did it consistently. Probably cuz it's the same technique you have to use for jigglypuff in melee.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

He had excellent techskill for techniques that work in melee. Approcahing with backwards using kirby's extra jumps (i.e. never turning around to face forward) isn't trivial for someone who has never played the game, but m2k did it consistently. Probably cuz it's the same technique you have to use for jigglypuff in melee.

"m2k" "jiggs"

Wut.

Also m2k has tech skill, he doesn't have to use it, lollll

 

[bloodpeach]

Just becuase m2k goes shiek/marth in tournament doesnt mean he has never played any other character...

m2k has a solid PM and melee jigglypuff. Watch more videos o_O

 

[Doomolish]

Pikaknight.

 

[B Link]

owned pwned better best

Needless to say, you lack any credibility since you never use low tiers against kirby lol.

 

[MrMarbles]

Anybody can learn anything anybody else knows to execute the same **** vs anything at any time.

it all makes sense now

 

[prisonchild]

doubt anyone cares but I played my friend today, we started a character battle and half way through with me up 10 stocks he gets pissed off so he caves and uses Kirby. I beat his Kirby with my samus and he quit after that.

guess I found my new cp for Kirby.

 

[Combo Blaze]

People be sayin' Samus is hard counter to kirby. too bad I still got rekd by GODMASTERKIRBY

 

[rawrimamonster]

Effort to use kirby=\=skill to use pika

The required skill caps are much different. This is why a smart person using Kirby can be trouble, regardless though Pika has still been proven to be better. In the cases listed in the OP a smarter player was simply using Kirby. If players of equal mental ability were using each Pika and Kirby in those situations I think the outcomes would have been shifted.

once again, it comes down to effort vs skill, and kirby is a low effort character with very easy setups, lots of high hitstun low cooldown moves, and a good recovery. This is why you have idiots thinking MATTS is good despite it just being his gay playstyle thats hard to get around. The character is just stupidly easy to play.

 

[Karajan]

Pika has still been proven to be better. In the cases listed in the OP a smarter player was simply using Kirby. If players of equal mental ability were using each Pika and Kirby in those situations I think the outcomes would have been shifted.

COUNTER EXAMPLE: http://youtu.be/rmJR7Gu4-GQ?t=10m58s

proven

Yeah your conjecture is no theorem. You have no proof

 

[rawrimamonster]

COUNTER EXAMPLE: http://youtu.be/rmJR7Gu4-GQ?t=10m58s



Yeah your conjecture is no theorem. You have no proof

Not gonna john for boom but anyone who has been in a tournament situation like that who has their mentality ****ed will get wrecked, even Ken said it himself repeatedly during kings of cali. From actually talking to him, boom's mentality was off that whole time. Pulling up one video does not make me wrong either, once again. Effort to play a character =\= skill required, and kirby is a low effort character. This is further proven by how often he's used to troll. The credit in that video goes to kikoushi as a player, not to kirby as a character no matter how you spin it. Boom got outplayed by Kikoushi.

My personal "proof" is playing smash since it released, and being a part of the competitive community since 2004. I've seen the matches more times so many more times than most of the community it's comparable to how short most of you've been playing lol. I'm not saying kirby isn't a great character, but you continually put players who are equal against eachother and main those characters, you'll get pikas coming out on top a lot more. A few recent videos doesn't change years of results.

 

[bloodpeach]

if the pika wins more often the pika is the better player at the matchup by definition.

 

[SuperDoo]

the talk that m2k sucks is kind of funny. Sensei's kirby is pretty slow and just as boring

 

[clubbadubba]

who said m2k sucks?

 

[The Star King]

me, right now