Why is Zelda considered...bad

[Stake]

Why exactly is Zelda considered bad, she has a great fair and has the nice floaty-ness that makes peach good, with a pretty good aerial speed. I am not the most educated in smash, and I would like to know. I like to play her sometimes with my friends, a fun character.

 

[psychoripper]

Her grab is kinda slow, her mobility is kinda limited, her recovery isnt that great and actually getting good hits or what few combos she has can be a real pain

 

[ChivalRuse]

Her jump speed is slow and maximum jump height is low and her dash is slow. If she jumped faster and higher and was faster on the ground she would be much more viable.

 

[NJzFinest]

She's amazing. Press Down B or hold A at the start of the match.

 

[Red Rice]

^^^^

Zelda's best move: down-B

Vice versa, Sheik's worst move: down-B..... or side-B, situational

 

[NJzFinest]

Sheik's down B is better than side B because the stall from shapeshiffting to Zelda and back helps with recovery and it makes Ice Climbers an easier matchup.

 

[BJN39]

Well, to sort of list it:

* Her grab is nearly 2 times slower to connect then 90% of the game's grabs.

* She arguably has the worst overall mobility in the game, and basically loses to Dash Dance camping.

* TALL AND FLOATY. Gets KO'ed very early, but has a larger hit-box than most other floaties.

* Overall, her moveset was poorly design outside of 3-5 moves.
Jab, Fsmash, Usmash, and NAir cannot really be relied upon (in non 1.0 versions) because they can be SDI'ed (Smash directional influenced) out of making them not fully connect. Ftilt and Utilt are very small ranged and slow, AND don't offer much reward for hitting with, Dtilt has similar uselessness, as well. UAir's visual is a lie and the hit-box is far smaller, and it just isn't very strong, and DAir IS pretty much just useless meteor.
Some moves have very rare neat uses, but are otherwise worse to use than not. -_-

* Her specials are pretty disadvantageous to Zelda to use. Like, seriously 'nuff said. Pretty much don't use Nayru's or Din's, or Farore's outside of long recovery/Ledge stalling. Transform is, well.... Sheik. So not Zelda...

Basically, all of her is flawed. She makes a killing on FAir/BAir and Dsmash though. XD

 

[ChivalRuse]

Key to Zelda is having really good spacing and mindgames, and getting maximum punishes. Zelda's combo game is terrible, so you have to capitalize on every chance to land a dash attack or grab. As BJN said, ftilt is not consistent (but it's cool when f-tilt to bair hits xD).

 

[NJzFinest]

Hey Naryu's is awesome! I love that move.

 

[BJN39]

I love it too, it's beautiful, it's just not really useful.

Still better than Brawl Nayru's though... That ugh's crystal doesn't even fully cover her visually like Melee's does.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Jab, Fsmash, Usmash, and NAir cannot really be relied upon (in non 1.0 versions) because they can be SDI'ed (Smash directional influenced) out of making them not fully connect.

Fsmash can be useful if they don't see it coming or as a punish in certain scenarios.

Usmash oos is actually a good option for zelda. While it can be SDI'd, it comes out super fast and the hit box is pretty big. If they don't SDI, it can often set up for a fair/bair/grab/dsmash/dash attack depending on a bunch of things.

Nair is actually ok sometimes if you need to shield pressure. Especially when someone's above you. I like also have found that sh fair/bair to nair in one jump is good for clipping your opponent with the last hit of nair right before you hit the ground if they put their shield down after the fair/bair.

 

[BJN39]

Thus, I say "Cannot be relied upon"

Did I say they had no uses whatsoever?

 

[X WaNtEd X]

It just sounded like you were implying you shouldn't use those moves.

 

[Upke]

The last hit of fsmash is a lot bigger (and it's the important one). You can use this to cover the opponent's ledge options from a safe distance and it can also edgeguard people who miss the sweetspot/don't have one. Nayru's is pretty alright. When someone hits you well into your shield from the back, meaning no shield grab (which sucks anyways) and no sweetspot kick, you have two viable options, upsmash OoS and Nayru's. Upsmash can set up for combos but is SDIable as mentioned many times, but Nayru's is pretty much guaranteed the hard hit if they are that close into you (examples being spacies fsmash, Sheik/Peach dash attack, etc.) which means you don't have to worry about CCing. You don't get a followup off of it but it's less risky.

Edit: Also, nair has plenty of uses. It isn't a great move, but you can use rising nairs to pressure shields on platforms, and you can link unfinished nairs (ones that you landed during) into upsmashes/dsmashes on floaties. Additionally, if you're getting platform camped, nair is pretty much your only option of putting out an active hitbox to interrupt their movement.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

2 words: High Knockback.
This is me arguing for Zelda to be higher. Lightning Kick is ridiculous. It hurts a lot and so does the swetspotted Dair and UAir in general. Her combo game may be terrible, but if you hit hard and fast, She can wreck the likes of Fox...
Don't hurt me.

 

[Upke]

The problem is she can't hit hard and fast. Only hard. Because of her obvious killmoves and slow speed, it's just easy to avoid it for the opponent. I've never actually heard someone say sweetspotted dair hurts though, lol. How do you figure?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Zelda has no answer to dash dancing.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

your best bet against dash dancing is to dash dance yourself or space some double short hop bairs with the option of wavelanding. waveland bairs/fair can be a useful. i'll throw a bair/fair and then waveland into a dsmash and it often works. or i might even waveland a usmash if i expect them to jump in at me.

and lol at the sweet spot dair. i've never seen anyone pull that off or even use it.

but you know i actually pulled off something pretty cool the other day in a friendly that i think could be viable if people practiced it. i got a fox offstage. i grabbed ledge and he firefoxed towards ledge. i did a ledgestall up-b and it set him up for a ledge hop bair for the kill.

also you can gimp space animals that challenge you at the ledge with the up-b. if it clips them, it can set up for a ledgehop bair and all of a sudden you've got an edgeguard situation.

 

[kunimitsu877]

Why exactly is Zelda considered bad, she has a great fair and has the nice floaty-ness that makes peach good, with a pretty good aerial speed. I am not the most educated in smash, and I would like to know. I like to play her sometimes with my friends, a fun character.

my question is while shes not exactly bad how in the hell is she better than mewtwo roy and game and watch please explain this to me

 

[the muted smasher]

my question is while shes not exactly bad how in the hell is she better than mewtwo roy and game and watch please explain this to me

 

[kunimitsu877]

...

 

[Peeta]

Zelda for me is a juggernaut lightning kick to end it after racking up enough damage to KO with it as Sheik.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Bad approach, bad defensive.

Run up to her, wavedash in place, see her panic SH fair and punish.

lol

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

my question is while shes not exactly bad how in the hell is she better than mewtwo roy and game and watch please explain this to me

She is definitely worse than Mewtwo and Roy. That if one of my biggest beefs with the current tier lists. But personally, I think G&W should be the highest in the bottom tier.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

Bad approach, bad defensive.

Run up to her, wavedash in place, see her panic SH fair and punish.

lol

Actually, I think she's pretty good defensively. You have a giant ass shield, you're hard to combo, and you have one of the best recoveries in the game. If Zelda sucked on defense she would hands down be the worst character in the game. It's like her only redeemable trait.

 

[Zone]

It just sounded like you were implying you shouldn't use those moves.

I agree with @ BJN39

I'm guessing you've never fought the same people with Zelda for years straight yet. Because Before I quit Zelda, all the players in my area could SDI out of Fsmash/Upsmash on reaction easily. I MIGHT get one on them if they are auto-piloting like 1/10 tries. When the odds are that low, you might as well NOT use it.

Did I still use it? Of course any NEW person I fought I atleast tested to see if they knew how to SDI it. But if they did it twice, I stopped using those moves nearly completely.

Fsmash is the only one that can sometimes still be used, If you're say edgeguarding, You can time it so most of the first hits that you can SDI are whiffed, so by he time they run into your F-smash, they don't have many hits left for them to SDI.

This entire concept was shown to me back in the day by Magus420 when he showed me you could F-smash punish a sleeping jiggs and not get rest punished by spacing the F-smash pixel perfect.


I agree with your point that she has a good defense game. She has strong OOS, can make a strong wall against characters with low range. And like you said, she's not very combo-able.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

I'm guessing you've never fought the same people with Zelda for years straight yet. Because Before I quit Zelda, all the players in my area could SDI out of Fsmash/Upsmash on reaction easily. I MIGHT get one on them if they are auto-piloting like 1/10 tries. When the odds are that low, you might as well NOT use it.

lol dude it's already happening. I've been playing Zelda in my area for about a year now and people are already SDIing **** on reaction. But as you say, fair can be used in certain situations where it's incredibly hard SDI out, even on reaction. But I pretty much don't use usmash against people if they're demonstrated they can SDI out on reaction. There are some characters, like Falco, that have a hard time punishing you for it even if they do SDI out. It never works out against Fox, though. At least that's just my experience with the move.

The other day I tried out SD Remix, and in that game, Zelda's usmash has hitboxes you can not SDI to get out of. It makes the move broken. Her OOS game becomes unbelievable because you have an answer to just about any spacing. And if they make the slightest of spacing errors, they get usmash'd lol. If only Zelda was as good in Melee as that game

 

[Zone]

Yeah I love SD remix zelda

 

[ChivalRuse]

Zelda's biggest weakness is how easy it is to dash dance / projectile camp her.

 

[S2rulL]

she gets combo'd to **** as well. ever played against a falcon? that **** ain't fun at all.

 

[TegamiBachi25]

...

lol, is that a bottle of juice in his jacket pocket?