Why is Sheik the most neglected Top Tier?

[Teczer0]

i can add u-tilt if teczero still wants but by now he'll probably be sorting through the hitbox system anyways.

LOL i couldn't get it cuz I fail

 

[KirbyKaze]

alrighty one sec.








the above are the first hitbox.

the first hitbox is out for frames 5 - 10.








second hitbox is above.

second hitbox is out for frames 19 - 24.

 

[Teczer0]

LOL that hitbox is pretty big LOL.

Hmmmmmmm *ponders about more edgeguards*

EDIT: nvm LOL WOW. Sheik is facing to the right for all the frame windows I'm guessing?

 

[KirbyKaze]

yes.

she turns around approx frames 16 - 18

 

[Teczer0]

Wow those hitboxes are really big O_O.

Ok need to try new edgeguards

Thanks KirbyKaze

I'm so fascinated for no reason LOL

 

[KirbyKaze]

I hate Foxes who CC properly.

It's like I can't just walk up to them with tilts and win.

 

[Teczer0]

I love it when sometimes when I mis-space a move and think I got shieldgrabbed I just up-tilt and sometimes people mess up their timing and get hit by it

Anyway my friend who played Sheik told me he used to edgeguard spacies with reverse/regular up-tilts and that it works sometimes if people don't expect it.

Now I see why

 

[jugfingers]

Sheik mains aren't really respected

I respect teczero....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGc8RRBIHOU

 

[Teczer0]

I respect teczero....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGc8RRBIHOU

LOOOOOOOOOOL

Sheik is too much fun

 

[KirbyKaze]

It looks like it might be able to be used in a similar manner to Samus's u-tilt for edgeguarding.

 

[Teczer0]

I need to learn to read.

I'm thinking similarly to you KirbyKaze .

EDIT: Who do you think you can use it against? Or how are you thinking of using it? If you don't mind me asking

 

[NeighborhoodP]

um, teczero, sheik has maybe the best recovery in the game with marth...

 

[Vts]

thought i would drop by since i'm an IC player and i know how much sheiks hate me.

but sheik is easy mode, but i don't think hey that person is only good cus they play sheik (even though beat my crew member in sheik dittos and he loved sheik and that was my first time playing her/it).

i see more people edge guarding with down tilt , so far i really like sheik and i plan on getting better with her since i need a counter to my ICs counter (**** you marf)

still learning but wouldn't it be better to edge guard by getting on the ledge and wall jumping fair or nair? since u still can recover.

 

[Teczer0]

um, teczero, sheik has maybe the best recovery in the game with marth...

>_______>

The best recovery is pretty much Jigglypuff........

Why in the world would sheik have the best? >________________________________>

Vts - I actually like ICz I think they are a fun character to play . Probably cuz they are such a unique character.

 

[NeighborhoodP]

her upb is maybe the best recovery option in the game. and she's a semi fast faller so she stays alive foreveeeeeer. if you don't kill her off the top she's pretty much never dying unless you're captain falcon.

okay, not strictly recovery, but in terms of staying alive the longest among all characters, sheik is definitely at the top with marth. you can't gimp her, with good DI she can get to the edge with your jump, and even if you are forced to upb on the stage you can DI different directions during the upb and aim it at specific spots on the stage to make yourself hard to be easily punished. if they get off the edge early you can just upb it, if they roll you can aim for the edge of the stage, etc.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I need to learn to read.

I'm thinking similarly to you KirbyKaze .

EDIT: Who do you think you can use it against? Or how are you thinking of using it? If you don't mind me asking

I'm thinking of just trying to time the second hit to tap Falcons out of attempted sweetspots. It looks like it goes low enough. If it works then just Fair or D-smash after. Since the move completes on frame 30 I doubt there's enough time for Falcon to ledgetech into Up+B for punish (IASA for Sheik on 29) so you could probably buffer roll (or the more useful SH Fair) to eat through that stuff.

If he tries to go back you could probably just F-tilt afterwards. Or D-tilt --> Fair. Or whatever.

It might also work against spacies and I'm tinkering with the idea of Peach (if she's used parasol at mid height) in my head.

edit: Sheik has the least gimpable Up+B but the most punishable in terms of recovery.

 

[Teczer0]

her upb is maybe the best recovery option in the game. and she's a semi fast faller so she stays alive foreveeeeeer. if you don't kill her off the top she's pretty much never dying unless you're captain falcon.

Sheik's up-b is terrible as long as your opponent isn't stupid and grabs the ledge too early.

When you up-b with her you only have 2 options, either go to the edge or land on the stage. If her up-b didn't have monumentally huge amounts of lag you could also land on a platform, but since she crouches for so long its like the cases are the same.

All you have to do to completely destroy her up-b is at the right time WD off grab the ledge. Then punish her up-b accordingly.

If she lands on the stage WD onto the stage and hit her with a strong attack.

This tactic covers ALL of sheik's up-b options. If you try to up-b and grab ledge you just obviously hold onto the edge. If she up-bs on top of you you STILL don't have to do anything as long as you correctly timed yourself grabbing the edge.

okay, not strictly recovery, but in terms of staying alive the longest among all characters, sheik is definitely at the top with marth. you can't gimp her, with good DI she can get to the edge with your jump, and even if you are forced to upb on the stage you can DI different directions during the upb and aim it at specific spots on the stage to make yourself hard to be easily punished. if they get off the edge early you can just upb it, if they roll you can aim for the edge of the stage, etc.

Again as long as you time the WD your invincibility frames hold out long enough so that none of these different directions really matter.

You can either land near the edge, on top of a platform, or you can try to go as far from the edge as possible.

You can try to move in random directions but ultimately these are the spots you are going to land on.

They never have to get off the stage early. Its much much simpler to just **** sheik's landing lag.

The only reason that spacies can die faster is that their falling speed is so fast that they really have no option but to get hit and thats only really if you carelessly approach at the edge.

KirbyKaze - Hmm I actually didn't think of using it vs CF like that but now I have a new idea LOL. Sounds amazing we should try it

 

[KirbyKaze]

I can never recover on Bam.

If I'm below 60 he does a **** combo.

If I'm above 60 he just F/D-smashes me off again after a Dair or something (over 80 he omits the Dair) and repeats until I die.

 

[Teczer0]

Honestly

I think I have a better chance recovering vs m2k with falco than sheik.

EVERYTIME he got me off the edge somehow he would be gay and double dair me .

That or just WD tipper fsmash .

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Man Teczero, if you chaingrabbed that match you might've gotten a JV 5 stock.

The utilt edgeguard seems a little... eh. The timing would be wonky, but more importantly, you'd have to be really close to the edge, so they could clip you with their recovery or something. I think you'd be better off with a ledgehog to edgeguard or something like that.

 

[Teczer0]

Man Teczero, if you chaingrabbed that match you might've gotten a JV 5 stock.

The utilt edgeguard seems a little... eh. The timing would be wonky, but more importantly, you'd have to be really close to the edge, so they could clip you with their recovery or something. I think you'd be better off with a ledgehog to edgeguard or something like that.

Falcon can't clip recoveries

Yea I probably could have LOL but its lame to CG entire stocks in friendlies >_<.

 

[Vts]

Falcon can't clip recoveries

Yea I probably could have LOL but its lame to CG entire stocks in friendlies >_<.

unless ur playing IC then its cool :D

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Not Falcon, but like anyone else...

 

[Teczer0]

unless ur playing IC then its cool :D

LOL ICz CG is so cute LOL. Nana sits on her hammer and Popo tries to prevent you from falling cuz you got hit by a Nana on a hammer LOL.

Not Falcon, but like anyone else...

Yea I agree I'm only really thinking of using it for my edgeguard game against Falcon and Ganondorf.

 

[KirbyKaze]

KirbyKaze - Hmm I actually didn't think of using it vs CF like that but now I have a new idea LOL. Sounds amazing we should try it

The Canadian Falcons will have one more reason to hate me

 

[Teczer0]

I'm having my friends come over my dorm next week. And they play falcon .

Perfect chance to test out lotsa stuff

 

[KirbyKaze]

yay.

tell me how it goes.

 

[Brainjack]

to be really smooth and efficient with her i think takes just as much tech skill as fox, the difference is u can get by without it i.e. its not a prerequisite, whereas a fox that cant waveshine combo is severely lacking

and to the above comment there are little strategies and subtleties with every character and matchup so i dont see what you are talking about.

case and pwnt

 

[KirbyKaze]

playing fox smooth and efficiently takes more tech skill than sheik

soap's biased because his sheik is more technical than the vast majority of people

 

[$ick]

Sheik mains aren't really respected as much as other players in most cases, hence the smaller number of Sheik mains in general, as well as a general distaste for the character amongst top level players. Sheik is horribly easy to learn and play, and the wide majority of her combos are ridiculously easy to perform.

lol poor Marth mains. It's just not fair.

<3 Cactuar's Marth.