Why is it that most of the Smash community are so sure of a 3 final 3rd party inclusion?

[Capybara Gaming]

Meh, I really don´t care about Pac-Man or other third party except Megaman and Sonic, if they can include Crono that would be godlike, but I´m not expecting him, in all seriousness I still believe Pac-Man would be included for a number of reasons not only because Namco is working on the project but the LeakE3 is getting right with the new comers and Sakurai was interested in a interview about how Pac-Man would play in Smash, it seems he has been high lighted in a number of situations during the development of this game that all would seem are hints of his inclusion.
.n_n.

Link to that PAC Man thing please.

 

[Zhadgon]

Link to that PAC Man thing please.

I don´t know why you need it but here it is:
Quote: "My inquiry about Namco Bandai characters did lead Sakurai to ask me a question in return - if I had to pick one character, which Namco Bandai character would I want in Super Smash Bros.? The answer seemed obvious to me - the original arcade version of Pac-Man. Sakurai then asked me what a Final Smash might look like for that, and we started to discuss how how Pac-Man could become super-powered, and chase other characters around a stage, attempting to eat them. It was a surreal discussion to say the least, but shows that Sakurai is always contemplating what else he might add to his projects, packing them full of as much content as possible."

Link: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

.n_n.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I don´t know why you need it but here it is:
Quote: "My inquiry about Namco Bandai characters did lead Sakurai to ask me a question in return - if I had to pick one character, which Namco Bandai character would I want in Super Smash Bros.? The answer seemed obvious to me - the original arcade version of Pac-Man. Sakurai then asked me what a Final Smash might look like for that, and we started to discuss how how Pac-Man could become super-powered, and chase other characters around a stage, attempting to eat them. It was a surreal discussion to say the least, but shows that Sakurai is always contemplating what else he might add to his projects, packing them full of as much content as possible.
Link: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

.n_n.

Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Ryan.]

I'm not sure what is gonna happen with third party characters. I think Pac-Man would be a nice sensible inclusion, and Snake returning would also be cool, but we really don't know for sure as there has never been a smash game yet with more than two, and who knows what Sakurai is thinking. He may want more than 2, he may not, we don't know. For people supporting these characters to be in, I think that's just fine.

 

[Zhadgon]

Just curious. Thanks.

No problem.
.n_n.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

@ Ryan.

There's also never been a smash game featuring third parties with less than two.

So that argument means nothing

 

[Ryan.]

@ Ryan.

There's also never been a smash game featuring third parties with less than two.

So that argument means nothing

I wasn't arguing at all, just saying that we all probably shouldn't be arguing when we don't know anything for sure. I think you misunderstood my post.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I wasn't arguing at all, just saying that we all probably shouldn't be arguing when we don't know anything for sure. I think you misunderstood my post.

He was just Trolling you pal.

 

[Bauske]

I don´t know why you need it but here it is:
Quote: "My inquiry about Namco Bandai characters did lead Sakurai to ask me a question in return - if I had to pick one character, which Namco Bandai character would I want in Super Smash Bros.? The answer seemed obvious to me - the original arcade version of Pac-Man. Sakurai then asked me what a Final Smash might look like for that, and we started to discuss how how Pac-Man could become super-powered, and chase other characters around a stage, attempting to eat them. It was a surreal discussion to say the least, but shows that Sakurai is always contemplating what else he might add to his projects, packing them full of as much content as possible."

Link: http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

.n_n.

Huh, I hadn't read that quote before. The original arcade version of Pac-Man? Now, see, I actually wouldn't want that. I'd much rather have Pac-Man with arms and legs (like my icon and sig) than just a circle with a wedge cut out. It would give him so much more personality. The main reason I was disappointed with Pac-Man's appearance in Wreck-It Ralph was because he was just a sphere floating around. It's iconic, sure, but also boring, and I think it would be hard to make a moveset for.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Huh, I hadn't read that quote before. The original arcade version of Pac-Man? Now, see, I actually wouldn't want that. I'd much rather have Pac-Man with arms and legs (like my icon and sig) than just a circle with a wedge cut out. It would give him so much more personality. The main reason I was disappointed with Pac-Man's appearance in Wreck-It Ralph was because he was just a sphere floating around. It's iconic, sure, but also boring, and I think it would be hard to make a moveset for.

don't worry, Pac wouldn't be downgraded by Sakurai; .. If they're receiving the license of the IP of a third party character, they wouldn't enter in conflict about desing and such; .. Mega Man's case, was Capcom that did that redesign for him; and Pac post-reboot is the current target of marketing of NAMCO.. so there's no way of Pac being a circle like his 8-Bit sprite. :\/ (in Wreck-It Ralph the proposal was different, to appeal people that played Arcade at 80's).

btw, this statement isn't from Sakurai, but from the interviewer;... Sakurai asked him which NAMCO Bandai character he would like, and then the interviewer said that about the Original Arcade Pac, etc... and then, Sakurai sounded very positive; and was that. :\/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

 

[Oracle_Summon]

I believe the reason that people think 3 third party inclusions is not impossible is because, three is a good number that does not overwhelm.

You recognize the old saying "third time is the charm" or "three strikes and you're out"?

Having three 3rd party characters is a plentiful amount without overwhelming the roster.

 

[Zhadgon]

Meh... we can count for Brawl we had 35 characters and 2 of them were two third party that means is the 5.71% of the roster, when you take into account that this next installment we could end with 45 playable characters and 4 of them can be third party that means is the 8.88% of the roster is not even the 10% of the total, so I don´t see what is the problem of having 4 third parties in this Smash, hell even 5 would be fine they will not overshadow the Nintendo Stars, at least not with numbers.
.n_n.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Meh... we can count for Brawl we had 35 characters and 2 of them were two third party that means is the 5.71% of the roster, when you take into account that this next installment we could end with 45 playable characters and 4 of them can be third party that means is the 8.88% of the roster is not even the 10% of the total, so I don´t see what is the problem of having 4 third parties in this Smash, hell even 5 would be fine they will not overshadow the Nintendo Stars, at least not with numbers.
.n_n.

I agree that 4 is not that big of a number, but people tend to think 3 is plenty enough when it comes to non-Nintendo characters. I think it has to relate to the top three places in events and/or races, you know, you got your Gold, Silver, and Bronze places.

 

[Zhadgon]

I agree that 4 is not that big of a number, but people tend to think 3 is plenty enough when it comes to non-Nintendo characters. I think it has to relate to the top three places in events and/or races, you know, you got your Gold, Silver, and Bronze places.

That is a stupid way of thinking so you will prefer to sacrifice a excellent moveset in Snake, Megaman, Sonic and probably Pac-Man in the next Smash because there are to many and fill a imaginary quota when in reality they are not even the 10% of the roster, dosen´t make sense, plus these characters once they are added include levels, trophies, music, assist trophies and many more things is like you are cutting Star Fox from the next Smash that means all what the series offer, and most importantly is the moveset that they bring and how much effort was put into it, once Sakurai said that to develop a third party into Smash requires a lot of resources, they expend so much that is ridiculous how much time and money is invested, for example Megaman alone spend half of the time and resources in the production of the game at that time and the other for developing the base of the game that means the veterans, levels, music and more.

My comment above is not for you I agree to everything that you say but some people sometimes spit no sense and that puts me in a really bad mood.

.n_n.

 

[Shorts]

Pretty simple really. First off we have the leak. Weve gotten 4 of the 6 characters said to be included. Pac Man is one.Secondly project X zone came out as a 3DS exclusive. That game also happens to have Namco x SEGA x Capcom. I doubt this is more than a coincidence.

Snake COULD have come back, but it just seems to be that he's not. I dont think there was a "magic number" or anything though. It just happened to be three.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

That is a stupid way of thinking so you will prefer to sacrifice a excellent moveset in Snake, Megaman, Sonic and probably Pac-Man in the next Smash because there are to many and fill a imaginary quota when in reality they are not even the 10% of the roster, dosen´t make sense, plus these characters once they are added include levels, trophies, music, assist trophies and many more things is like you are cutting Star Fox from the next Smash that means all what the series offer, and most importantly is the moveset that they bring and how much effort was put into it, once Sakurai said that to develop a third party into Smash requires a lot of resources, they expend so much that is ridiculous how much time and money is invested, for example Megaman alone spend half of the time and resources in the production of the game at that time and the other for developing the base of the game that means the veterans, levels, music and more.

My comment above is not for you I agree to everything that you say but some people sometimes spit no sense and that puts me in a really bad mood.

.n_n.

Even if the above post is not for me, I don't mint Snake returning. He is fine by me.

 

[ryuu seika]

Huh, I hadn't read that quote before. The original arcade version of Pac-Man? Now, see, I actually wouldn't want that. I'd much rather have Pac-Man with arms and legs (like my icon and sig) than just a circle with a wedge cut out. It would give him so much more personality. The main reason I was disappointed with Pac-Man's appearance in Wreck-It Ralph was because he was just a sphere floating around. It's iconic, sure, but also boring, and I think it would be hard to make a moveset for.

See, this is where my hatred for Pac-Man as a potential inclusion comes in. That "circle with a wedge cut out" is the character, while the limbed thing you propose is the box art. The box art has moveset potential and interest, sure, but it's not the gaming icon that the character is and, sadly, the character has next to nothing going for him.
The inclusion of the box art would be a slap in the face for early gamers while the inclusion of the character would be a major loss for anyone who cares about gameplay. There is no good outcome to Pac-Man's inclusion.

 

[Opossum]

See, this is where my hatred for Pac-Man as a potential inclusion comes in. That "circle with a wedge cut out" is the character, while the limbed thing you propose is the box art. The box art has moveset potential and interest, sure, but it's not the gaming icon that the character is and, sadly, the character has next to nothing going for him.
The inclusion of the box art would be a slap in the face for early gamers while the inclusion of the character would be a major loss for anyone who cares about gameplay. There is no good outcome to Pac-Man's inclusion.

This is quite a biased post. Try not to look at Pac-Man with metaphorical blinders on.

 

[Bauske]

See, this is where my hatred for Pac-Man as a potential inclusion comes in. That "circle with a wedge cut out" is the character, while the limbed thing you propose is the box art. The box art has moveset potential and interest, sure, but it's not the gaming icon that the character is and, sadly, the character has next to nothing going for him.
The inclusion of the box art would be a slap in the face for early gamers while the inclusion of the character would be a major loss for anyone who cares about gameplay. There is no good outcome to Pac-Man's inclusion.

But that's not the case. If you're gonna base a character on their beginnings, would you prefer Mario to look and act like this?

Mario back then had nothing. He was a basic guy who ran, jumped, climbed ladders, and saved Pauline. That's it. He wasn't much either, but is it a "slap in the face" for early gamers that he looks and acts how he does now? No.

The same thing goes for Pac-Man. His original game featured nothing but eating, but through the years he has evolved, much like Mario. He's had platforming games, party games, kart racing games, puzzle games, adventure games, and a ton more, and in a good majority of them, he's seen with arms and legs. The old circle-with-a-wedge-cut-out Pac-Man was mainly used because it was simple, cute, and identifiable (and because of hardware limitations at the time). It made him an icon, but he's always been more than just that.

 

[ryuu seika]

If that is how you see it, sure, but every reference I've ever seen to Pac-Man has also been to his limbless form (including in recent Namco games). The only times I've seen limbed Pac-Man in motion were that arcade version of Mario Kart and a game trailer some Pac-Man fan linked on this site.

Limbed Pac-Man is not like Sonic, Mario or Link. You see them everywhere. Limbed Pac-Man, discounting what we see from the folks here, is simply not in the public eye at all. He's not referenced, he's not on T-shirts, he's not advertised and his games aren't even on shelves. I didn't even realise he existed until a couple of years ago.

I guess I can't speak for everybody objectively but I do very much doubt the casual Smash player will have any experience with the guy at all and, for a third party who is included solely to sell more copies of the game, that is a terrible terrible thing.

 

[SmashChu]

I have a hard time seeing 3 slots in the roster for 3rd party characters. Its unrealistic. Did the idea originate from Namco announced to be helping develop Smash Wii U and 3DS? back during the PreBrawl era, I don't remember ever seeing 3 slots for 3rd party characters in predictions rosters and now all of sudden that Namco is limitedly apart of the team, they believe that Namco will automatically gain special treatment after Sakurai stated the opposite?

Why I rather not see anymore third party inclusions.

If the leak rumor of Pac-Man is true, equaling Pac-Man planned to be confirmed. I would see Smash Wii U and 3DS as Super Smash Bros. Battle of The Icons, While a free for all match of Mario Vs Sonic Vs Mega Man feels neutral. If Sakurai reverses his state from his original state opposite debunking Namco supposedly deserving of special treatment, I would see Sakurai as trying to hard from not staying true to his word and betraying him self and probably his own series. I could say the same for Snake. I feel his place is now in PlayStation Allstars. The atmosphere of Battle Royale noticeably screams Snake.

I'm aware that Sakurai can troll but the limit for 3rd party inclusions could be the one thing he take the most seriously/don't joke about. We were lucky enough to get two third party characters. Most of the Smash community seem to be pushing their luck. I another third party character is ridiculous and uncalled.

In my opinion. Another special character inclusion would destroy the true focus of the game and would be hard to ignore/avoid.

I feel this subject deserve its own thread but if any mod feel its similar to the supposed opposite, you know what to do.

First, Sakurai has stated there would be no more than 3 third party characters (or something like that). After Sonic, everyone expected Megaman. Most people were wrong when it was found out he wasn't included. People didn't beleive one of the early leaks because it said Megaman was not in. People always expect more third party characters than what will actually happen.

Next, Pac-Man likely wont happen. He's a result of people expecting a ton of third party characters. Pac-Man isn't very popular. If you look at Shortie's poll, you'll always see he's low on it and he only moves because other characters get knocked off (usually by being deconfirmed). The other issue is he lacks moves that differentiate himself for the other characters already in the game, which is a specific rule Sakurai has. The idea of Pac-Man getting in is a western thing. In Japan, he rearely comes up. He's not very popular and fans would rather see Tales characters and Tekken characters. The latter was enough for him to respond to it. The rumor is also false. I wont go into all of it, but the rumor was that the characters were to be shown at E3 and it didn't happen.

Lastly, you see what a lot of other people don't. Sakurai has said this is a Nintendo fighting game. He intends to keep it that way. People forget this, which is why they were surprised when they found out the Megaman want in. The same will be true this time as people will be surprised when Pac-Man and others are not added.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I know not everyone wants Pac-man but what other well known Namco representative is there.
I mean even with his new redesign people can still look at him and say "Oh that's Pac-man".
If you put Lloyd Irving in there people would be like "Oh another sword guy... Probably from fire emblem."
Not that Lloyd's bad or anything or any Namco character for that matter but none of them even come close to how popular Pac-man is even with his stupid goofy new design.
Any Pac-man is still Pac-man just because he's got limbs doesn't make a difference it's still Pac-man.
That's my opinion though.

 

[SmashChu]

I know not everyone wants Pac-man but what other well known Namco representative is there.

There doesn't have to be a Namco rep.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

There doesn't have to be a Namco rep.

I know and I wish there wouldn't be but all signs point to a Namco character I'd be happy if the roster was all Nintendo characters.
But even though Sakurai said that they get no special treatment doesn't mean that Namco employees cant request people I'm just saying man.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

[...] I've ever seen to Pac-Man has also been to his limbless form (including in recent Namco games).

/\ wrong, Pac-Man sprite as a circle is just an icon for small references, just like the Mario 8-Bit sprite is; but the current target of marketing of NAMCO is "Pac is Back", and... well, they always used Pac-Man in his true form since ever (the original arcade in Japan, Pac-Land, Soul Edge intro, and go on).

and I'm sorry, but who doesn't know Pac-Man with arms and all, doesn't play videogames (detail for whose not plays videogames at all, and not a casual player, or even who never played a Pac-Man game rather than the original arcade game);... and who plays videogames and doesn't know his appearence, at least, from the 90~2010; ...well, is very uninformed; ...

It's like not knowing that Sonic has green eyes now ("now", lolz);

 

[Opossum]

I'll just say that there's no difference between "Pac-Man" and "Limbed Pac-Man." Not having the limbs in the first game was the result of technical limitations, as his limbed form is seen on the boxart.

First, Sakurai has stated there would be no more than 3 third party characters (or something like that). After Sonic, everyone expected Megaman. Most people were wrong when it was found out he wasn't included. People didn't beleive one of the early leaks because it said Megaman was not in. People always expect more third party characters than what will actually happen.

Next, Pac-Man likely wont happen. He's a result of people expecting a ton of third party characters. Pac-Man isn't very popular. If you look at Shortie's poll, you'll always see he's low on it and he only moves because other characters get knocked off (usually by being deconfirmed). The other issue is he lacks moves that differentiate himself for the other characters already in the game, which is a specific rule Sakurai has. The idea of Pac-Man getting in is a western thing. In Japan, he rearely comes up. He's not very popular and fans would rather see Tales characters and Tekken characters. The latter was enough for him to respond to it. The rumor is also false. I wont go into all of it, but the rumor was that the characters were to be shown at E3 and it didn't happen.

Lastly, you see what a lot of other people don't. Sakurai has said this is a Nintendo fighting game. He intends to keep it that way. People forget this, which is why they were surprised when they found out the Megaman want in. The same will be true this time as people will be surprised when Pac-Man and others are not added.

Toward the whole "Sakurai said there would only be three third parties," that was for Brawl, which would have a smaller roster. Proportionally speaking, four is fine for a roster of about fifty or so.

And most people who expect Pac-Man only expect him as far as additional third party newcomers. It's not like every roster with Pac-Man has ten third parties. As well, he's an icon and a legend, which is something Sakurai looks for in Third Parties.

The "he lacks moves" argument is fallacious. The Pac-Man World series alone provides quite a bit of source material. And can I have a source for the "Western only" thing? That sounds too convenient. And furthermore, if we're using Shortie's poll, then saying that fans want a Tekken or Tales character more is actually largely incorrect. The rumor being false also has no barring on Pac's chances.

Over all, I think you're coming from the position of a "Nintendo purist," so to speak. Having four third-parties in a roster of fifty doesn't tarnish the whole game. Basically, it sounds as though you're letting your anti-3rd Party viewpoint cloud your judgment. And keep in mind, this is coming from someone who's neutral on Pac-Man getting in.

 

[katastrophic]

...and I'm sorry, but who doesn't know Pac-Man with arms and all, doesn't play videogames (detail for whose not plays videogames at all, and not a casual player, or even who never played a Pac-Man game rather than the original arcade game);... and who plays videogames and doesn't know his appearence, at least, from the 90~2010; ...well, is very uninformed; ...

It's like not knowing that Sonic has green eyes now ("now", lolz);

People might know what he looks like, but that doesn't mean they've cared about him much at all since the eighties. ...By the way Sonic having green eyes is a pretty negligible fact, and only after I read your post was I consciously aware of it.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

People might know what he looks like, but that doesn't mean they've cared about him much at all since the eighties. ...By the way Sonic having green eyes is a pretty negligible fact, and only after I read your post was I consciously aware of it.

Then this is the time to make people start caring about the new Pac-Man and what better way than through Smash Bros.
And I'm neutral about Pac-Man just so you know.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

People might know what he looks like, but that doesn't mean they've cared about him much at all since the eighties. ....

Caring about or not, is a personal thing; ... I don't really care for, like, how big and even how much potential are the FireEmblem characters, but I know that they exists, at least; lolz. in any case, Pac-Man is a character that the popularity goes beyond the videogame limit; which is a great thing to consider to Smash; .. Also, I think that this subject will be too off of the context of the OP in few posts. XD

.By the way Sonic having green eyes is a pretty negligible fact, and only after I read your post was I consciously aware of it.

lol

 

[Bauske]

If that is how you see it, sure, but every reference I've ever seen to Pac-Man has also been to his limbless form (including in recent Namco games). The only times I've seen limbed Pac-Man in motion were that arcade version of Mario Kart and a game trailer some Pac-Man fan linked on this site.

Limbed Pac-Man is not like Sonic, Mario or Link. You see them everywhere. Limbed Pac-Man, discounting what we see from the folks here, is simply not in the public eye at all. He's not referenced, he's not on T-shirts, he's not advertised and his games aren't even on shelves. I didn't even realise he existed until a couple of years ago.

I guess I can't speak for everybody objectively but I do very much doubt the casual Smash player will have any experience with the guy at all and, for a third party who is included solely to sell more copies of the game, that is a terrible terrible thing.

I understand and respect your opinion, but honestly I feel you're using your own views and experience and dictating them as "the majority" of the view. Sure there are a lot of people out there who just see Pac-Man as what he was on the classic arcade screen, but there are lots of people, especially Pac-Man fans, who have seen him evolve and grow throughout the years. There are so many examples of Pac-Man with hands, arms, legs, and feet throughout the years it's crazy to say that most people wouldn't recognize it. Even back in the days when Pac-Man was confined to his maze, he had arms and legs everywhere.

The original Japanese Puck-Man arcade cabinet
Ms. Pac-Man US arcade cabinet
Atari Pac-Man game cartridge
Vintage Pac-Man shirt (that I even remember having as a kid)
Pac-Man NES boxart
The big-nose Pac-Man coloring book (that I also remember having as a kid)

I understand what you're trying to say, but to say that people would see this...

...and not recognize it as Pac-Man doesn't seem to make sense. He's been around in a form similar to this since the day the first game was released.

Also, for everyone else, I realize I come across as a Pac-Man fanboy, and I won't deny that at all. xD I do however tend to view things from a factual standpoint rather than a bias. I wanted him in Brawl, but I doubted it would happen, and I was right. This time I want him in Smash badly, and his chances are pretty dang high given the circumstances. Do I think he's 100%? No, not at all, but if I were to guess his chances of being in the game, I'd place them over 80%. He's iconic, everyone knows who he is, he's one of the founding characters in video game history, and if Namco is helping with this game and doesn't push to get him in there, they'd be missing a huge opportunity, and I believe they know that.

 

[Shorts]

I know not everyone wants Pac-Man but it's too bad because he's showing up.

 

[SmashChu]

I know and I wish there wouldn't be but all signs point to a Namco character I'd be happy if the roster was all Nintendo characters.
But even though Sakurai said that they get no special treatment doesn't mean that Namco employees cant request people I'm just saying man.

What signs? I'm sure the average person doesn't even know Namco is making the game. The only time they've talked about Namco was when they first announced it, and they haven't brought it up since. They aren't listed on the credits at the end of the video.

Toward the whole "Sakurai said there would only be three third parties," that was for Brawl, which would have a smaller roster. Proportionally speaking, four is fine for a roster of about fifty or so.

And most people who expect Pac-Man only expect him as far as additional third party newcomers. It's not like every roster with Pac-Man has ten third parties. As well, he's an icon and a legend, which is something Sakurai looks for in Third Parties.

The "he lacks moves" argument is fallacious. The Pac-Man World series alone provides quite a bit of source material. And can I have a source for the "Western only" thing? That sounds too convenient. And furthermore, if we're using Shortie's poll, then saying that fans want a Tekken or Tales character more is actually largely incorrect. The rumor being false also has no barring on Pac's chances.

Over all, I think you're coming from the position of a "Nintendo purist," so to speak. Having four third-parties in a roster of fifty doesn't tarnish the whole game. Basically, it sounds as though you're letting your anti-3rd Party viewpoint cloud your judgment. And keep in mind, this is coming from someone who's neutral on Pac-Man getting in.

The problem you have is the same one I alluded to in my post. The logic you and other people are using is as so: "Adding Pac-Man is the same as adding Mario or any other Nintendo character, so they the same rules that apply to Nintendo characters and third party characters are the same and there are no differences in regards to inclusion." The problem is that is not true. Here is what Sakurai has actually said about third party characters

So," I continued, "what's the third-party character you'd most like to see?"P

Sakurai laughed.P

"I'm really sorry," he said through a translator. "If I were to answer that question, I'd get in a lot of trouble in a lot of different ways, so I can't answer. But I think I can say generally that there won't be a trend of adding a lot of third-party characters. You can sort of think of Mega Man as being the special case."P

Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation.

If we were to look at these quotes at face value without any other analysis, we can say "Megaman would probably be only of the only third party characters." At the very least, we can surmise that "four to five," is out of the question (wouldn't be very special then would it). The only thing vague about these statements is what he means by "special situation." At the very least, he means it got to be something really important. Sonic was the most requested character worldwide during Brawl. Megaman likely was too. So them being the most popular characters worldwide was a pretty "special situation." Being iconic likely wont cut it. A lot of characters are iconic in their own right. What about Simon Belmonth? Or Bomberman? Scrooge McDuck is iconic to video games in his own right. Or Professor Layton. His games put Level-5 on the map and all did very well (it should also be noted that this character was a popular request before the game was shown). It means that there probably needs to be something more pertinent to Smash. And I'm sure that someone is going to say "But what about Snake!?" Based on what Kojima has said, Snake probably wont come back. We can even infer that Sakurai hasn't even talked to him.

"I'm not working on that game, but I don't think it's likely [that Snake will return]. If Mr. Sakurai is watching this, hopefully we see Snake.

On Pac-man being in: Yes, he has moves, but not any that differentiate himself from the rest of the cast, which is a requirement of Sakurai's requirements (see below).

In terms of his criteria for characters to be included in the game, Sakurai said that to merit inclusion, characters had to stand out, and do something that only that character can do.

Consider his moves. Eating? This is covered by Kirby (his key feature as well), Wario, Yoshi, and King Dedede. Rev Roll? This is a rip off of Sonic and Jigglypuff. Butt Bounce? Yoshi and Bowser. Throwing pellets? Be the same as any projectile and even Villager has a slingshot. Outside of an interesting final smash, the character brings nothing new. Characters like Sonic, Villager, Rosalina, Little Mac, Diddy Kong, Pokemon Trainer, King Dedede, and Pit all bring new and unique abilities that other characters can't do. This is an all-star fighting game so it would not be hard to pull out characters that are very different. But Pac-Man offers so little and he's a character a lot of people don't care for. This is a reason he is not popular. Megaman is interesting. He has a lot of weapons and gadgets he can use. This is why people wanted him. Heck, people gave millions of dollars to the creator because they want more of him. With Pac-Man, people generally ignore the games. I'm sure most gamers don't even know the newest Pac-Man game even came out. For how Japan sees characters, I'll refers you to Chronobound's observations (I'll post the relevant part below) and this recent article.

A lot of the stuff on Tekken and Tales is intelligible because there is a lot of personal insults and flame wars involved. A lot of Japanese forum memes that I don't get understand gets thrown around and a lot of childishness.

Reminds me a lot about GameFAQs.

Pac-Man I don't see come up much. When he does, its basically, "Pac-Man seems to be the most appropriate Namco character they could use for Smash Bros., don't you think?"

Lots of Tales characters names get thrown around, but there is no character they can agree on, and they all flame war each other for supporting a certain character or not having an opinion regarding a certain Tales game.

To close, this isn't about an ideology or being a "Nintendo Purist." Super Smash Brothers is a "Nintendo All-Star fighting game." This comes directly from the game's creator. It is unreasonable to expect a lot of third party characters and they aren't going to be added because they are "iconic." I could go on about how Megaman is popular because Nintendo fans see him as just as much a Nintendo character as Mario, but this post has gone on for long enough. The real issue is that people let their dreams get in the way of reality. This is why some fans become zealots for characters like Skull Kid, Ashely, and, yes, even Pac-Man. They want this roster with lots of different third party characters that they like and don't see that, at the end of the day, Smash is a celebration of Nintendo. We should consider ourselves lucky because, up until 6 years ago, there were no third party characters in Smash. And you have Kojima to thank for that.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

They aren't listed on the credits at the end of the video.

I think that's because they don't want to cause confusion about a Namco character being.
Despite that I agree with most everything you said after all I am totally neutral about Pac-Man.
And on the subject of Snake, Kojima is a known TRLL do not believe anything he says until it's proven.

 

[---]

If Sakurai can think of something for Pacman, that also keeps him within his character, then I have no issue with his inclusion. Nor do I think a 3rd Third Party character really ruins anything or turns Smash into a non-celebration of Nintendo's history.

Beyond that it's anyone's guess towards if we'll get another third party, let alone who it could be. I don't think anything is an inevitability at this point.

I feel this subject deserve its own thread but if any mod feel its similar to the supposed opposite, you know what to do.

This topic is probably okay so long as people keep their cool.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Oh, what's that? the same "bla bla bla" Pac-Hating for nothing from SmashChu (twisting sentences of Sakurai and others in his favor, I suppose)? I'm not surprised. 8D... Well, will be funny for everyone when Pac be announced. =)

and then... what I said? ... this is too off from the context of OP; ... :\/

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Oh, what's that? the same "bla bla bla" Pac-Hating for nothing from SonicChu (twisting sentences of Sakurai and others in his favor, I suppose)? I'm not surprised. 8D... Well, will be funny for everyone when Pac be announced. =)

and then... what I said? ... this is too off from the context of OP; ... :\/

Come on dude you don't want to do this just stop bro please just stop.

 

[Bauske]

If Sakurai can think of something for Pacman, that also keeps him within his character, then I have no issue with his inclusion. Nor do I think a 3rd Third Party character really ruins anything or turns Smash into a non-celebration of Nintendo's history.

Beyond that it's anyone's guess towards if we'll get another third party, let alone who it could be. I don't think anything is an inevitability at this point.

Agreed. Assuming Snake isn't cut from the game, that's at least three 3rd party characters right there. I don't think three is oversaturating the game's roster, nor do I believe it's taking away from the Nintendo-themed history.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Agreed. Assuming Snake isn't cut from the game, that's at least three 3rd party characters right there. I don't think three is oversaturating the game's roster, nor do I believe it's taking away from the Nintendo-themed history.

OFFtopic: hey, Bauske, ... saw the Pac Support thread recently? go there, I'd like to know your opinion about The Maze stage that I did. =)

Come on dude you don't want to do this just stop bro please just stop.

Nah, don't worry, I'm not going deeper than that. .. it's just that the tiny time that I'm in this community, I'm already know some historic from some users, and some things never changes, just for note. =P

 

[---]

Oh, what's that? the same "bla bla bla" Pac-Hating for nothing from SonicChu (twisting sentences of Sakurai and others in his favor, I suppose)? I'm not surprised. 8D... Well, will be funny for everyone when Pac be announced. =)

and then... what I said? ... this is too off from the context of OP; ... :\/

This topic is probably okay so long as people keep their cool.

If you disagree with someone please say so in a respectable manner.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'm almost positive we'll be getting a 3rd party at E3, and people shouldn't write Snake off yet. This is Hideo Kojima we're talking about.

We won't know for awhile though I don't think. There's plenty of time for surprises.