Why is Bowser the only character that cant B reverse up B?

[Karsticles]

During aerial recovery, Bowser can't B reserve Fortress, making his recovery guarantee pain if you are facing away from the stage. Bowser is the only character in the game with this limitation. Even DK, who has a similar up B, can.

I felt like we needed a dedicated thread to grumble about this.

 

[Jerodak]

Are you sure he can't? Is it possible that maybe the timing is just a bit different for his? It would be nice for making it back in certain situations, like when someone uses one of those back throws that sends him off facing away from the stage. In the meantime, at least he can turn around with side b, and I've been wondering if using down B from below with a jump might be more useful since it grabs from both sides at the same time, but that wouldn't be useful in too many instances.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Bowser won't snap to the ledge facing away. He either dies or goes over the ledge and gets punished anyway.

 

[Karsticles]

Are you sure he can't? Is it possible that maybe the timing is just a bit different for his? It would be nice for making it back in certain situations, like when someone uses one of those back throws that sends him off facing away from the stage. In the meantime, at least he can turn around with side b, and I've been wondering if using down B from below with a jump might be more useful since it grabs from both sides at the same time, but that wouldn't be useful in too many instances.

Very sure.

 

[Jerodak]

Very sure.

Oh, darn.

 

[Zigsta]

I don't understand this. Are you saying if you runoff fair you can't make it back?

 

[Cassius.]

i'm not sure how this works.

Bowser can't snap the ledge with upb when his back is to the ledge, that's true. but you can still get the same momentum you would from using upb in the same direction you're facing.

it's just a matter of physics. if you use your jump prior to upb, you will be able to carry the same distance and speed as you normally would. you should be turning around with klaw if your back is to the ledge anyway. Unless of course, you have some sort of idea with intentionally not snapping the ledge immediately.

 

[Karsticles]

Side B to turn around makes you easy to gimp also, and sometimes isn't viable due to SD issues.

I don't understand this. Are you saying if you runoff fair you can't make it back?

Of course you can make it back. You just dont ledge snap.

1) Jump forward off a ledge.
2) Sink beneath the ledge.
3) Fortress to the ledge.
4) Notice it won't snap until the entire animation is done, making Bowser easy gimp bait.

No other character has this problem.

 

[Cassius.]

Samus? Sonic? Ganondorf? There are a lot of characters whose UpBs don't snap facing backward

 

[Karsticles]

Samus? Sonic? Ganondorf? There are a lot of characters whose UpBs don't snap facing backward

This is really getting annoying. Read what I am saying. Browser cannot reverse his Up B direction from his current facing. Those other characters you listed can. If ANY other character in the game is facing away from the ledge, they can reverse their direction by holding up-left/right and latch. ONLY Bowser can't.

I tested the entire cast in training mode to be sure. This is a Bowser ONLY problem.

 

[Cassius.]

Oh. Well idk, it was like that in Brawl as well. There's no real explanation for it

 

[B!squick]

Because Bowser can't have nice things. Also, this isn't meaningful in 99% of situations anyway. The only time you should run off is to do a DAir anyway.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Because Bowser can't have nice things. Also, this isn't meaningful in 99% of situations anyway. The only time you should run off is to do a DAir anyway.

Or Fair. Or Bair. Or Klaw.

 

[Karsticles]

Because Bowser can't have nice things. Also, this isn't meaningful in 99% of situations anyway. The only time you should run off is to do a DAir anyway.

Incredibly wrong.

 

[EarthenPillar]

Bowser's aerial upB's ascending speed & limit can be managed by your timing on B presses. Don't know if everyone here knows this already. & I know this doesn't solve the topic problem, but it's the way I've been getting around this and I've had no problems playing the off-stage game.

What I had realized some time last year is if you input B just after Fortress begins, it severely limits the amount of height you would be able to reach. Inputing B after this results in Fortress vectoring upwards a bit more.

Contrary, if you had input B just as Fortress is about to hit it's highest ascension, (assuming you had not input B at all before) it makes Fortress go higher than it should, and the ledge grab range on top of that is deceivingly high. Inputing B after this, also results in Fortress vectoring upwards a bit more.

This has allowed for me to pull of things I generally don't see other Bowsers attempting. I've Firebreath-gimped megaman/sonic from using upB and could still get myself back on stage. Because it's Fortress we're talking about here, you do get a hitbox above you as you ascend.

Besides all this, you could always face towards the stage when attempting any sort of off-stage game if you'd wish.

 

[B!squick]

Yeah, just Jab and jump.

 

[Karsticles]

Bowser's aerial upB's ascending speed & limit can be managed by your timing on B presses. Don't know if everyone here knows this already. & I know this doesn't solve the topic problem, but it's the way I've been getting around this and I've had no problems playing the off-stage game.

What I had realized some time last year is if you input B just after Fortress begins, it severely limits the amount of height you would be able to reach. Inputing B after this results in Fortress vectoring upwards a bit more.

Contrary, if you had input B just as Fortress is about to hit it's highest ascension, (assuming you had not input B at all before) it makes Fortress go higher than it should, and the ledge grab range on top of that is deceivingly high. Inputing B after this, also results in Fortress vectoring upwards a bit more.

This has allowed for me to pull of things I generally don't see other Bowsers attempting. I've Firebreath-gimped megaman/sonic from using upB and could still get myself back on stage. Because it's Fortress we're talking about here, you do get a hitbox above you as you ascend.

Besides all this, you could always face towards the stage when attempting any sort of off-stage game if you'd wish.

This has nothing to do with ledge snapping.

I would like a video showing what you are talking about though.

 

[XOSugar]

I guess it's just a limitation he has. Deal with it. Be more creative about how you get on the ledge. I usually fair before my second jump, fair after, and then up B. Most opponents respect my get up if I clip them once or twice.

I just went into training and tried it. You can do it if you fall low enough to barely grab the ledge. You're vulnerable for a run-off b-air though.

 

[33percentgod]

Is this what's going on? This has cost me SO many matches in this game. I do the Fortress up to the ledge. Instead of grabbing the ledge, I'll just float down to my death. Or worse, Bowser won't grab the ledge, but land on the stage with Fortress and I'm literally a sitting target for ANY move from ANY character.

I've been wondering WTF is going on why he refuses to grab the ledge. This game has online patching, why are we stuck dealing with bugs and broken code this far in the game's lifespan?

 

[Cassius.]

Because its been a problem Bowser has had for 14 years. It won't get patched. He won't snap to the ledge facing backward until he is in the freefall state, so you have to plan accordingly.

 

[XOSugar]

He can do it. You just have to fall the perfect length. He'll still be susceptible to an off-stage b-air, but it's better than nothing.

 

[Greward]

I think DDD can't reverse his upB either, and I think Greninja can't either (not like it matters tho).

It makes running off stage to fair super risky. It truly sucks.

 

[Karsticles]

He can do it. You just have to fall the perfect length. He'll still be susceptible to an off-stage b-air, but it's better than nothing.

No, he can't. You don't know what you are talking about.

I think DDD can't reverse his upB either, and I think Greninja can't either (not like it matters tho).

It makes running off stage to fair super risky. It truly sucks.

DDD and Greninja both can. I have tested every character in this game. This is only Bowser's issue.

 

[Brinzy]

Probably a simple oversight.

 

[Izanagi97]

Because Bowser can't have nice things. Also, this isn't meaningful in 99% of situations anyway. The only time you should run off is to do a DAir anyway.

They gave him:

Speed buffs
A weight buff
A jump height buff
Universal super armor
Power buffs
Longer grab range
Recovery buff
Shield damage buffs


I doubt the lack of a B reverse is an issue.

 

[Zigsta]

They gave him:

Speed buffs
A weight buff
A jump height buff
Universal super armor
Power buffs
Longer grab range
Recovery buff
Shield damage buffs


I doubt the lack of a B reverse is an issue.

It's definitely an issue, but yes, his buffs outweigh this. That said, play Bowser long enough and you'll get KO'd because of this.

 

[Cassius.]

They gave him:

Speed buffs
A weight buff
A jump height buff
Universal super armor
Power buffs
Longer grab range
Recovery buff
Shield damage buffs


I doubt the lack of a B reverse is an issue.

It actually is a pretty big issue if you're cognizant of how a Bowser player is trying to edgeguard you or recover. If they're sent offstage facing the wrong way, Bowser is forced to switch directions or risk getting hit while trying to grab the ledge. If he recovers with his back facing the stage, you're basically guaranteed a free spike, smash attack, anything really. And if the Bowser player panics and boosts himself back ONTO the stage accidentally (pushing b too many times...this happens, players panic), then you have a free 2 seconds to do whatever you want.

Additionally, because of this, Bowser has to edgeguard characters a certain way so he can make it back safely if the attempt is flubbed or their recovery option is misread.

Since securing a kill offstage is actually a big component of the game for some characters, it is an issue lol

 

[S_B]

Universal super armor

"Tough guy" is not universal SA.

It's flinch-resistance to certain weak moves when below certain percentages and, unlike SA, can actually wind up being a liability as Bowser enters "matrix mode" while being peppered with light attacks and winds up staying in them twice as long as a result.

 

[Judo777]

LOL this is actually a REALLY big deal. It can obviously be played around but it is a considerable weakness.

I also don't believe he has had this issue in previous games (at least not Brawl). He can't do a turn around Up b (similar to how samus in brawl couldn't b-reverse), so if you are trying to recover and are facing the wrong direction, there is no way to snap the ledge unless you do a side B, (or reverse fire breath but LOL lag).

You can GRAB the ledge after the animation is basically over and you fall past the ledge, but you can't snap it early, which means anyone has the ability to spike you, or bair stage spike you, if you are gong for the ledge.

LOL at the OP having to explain it a bunch, i feel your pain.

I do think that being able to klaw to turn yourself around, does at least help this a little bit, in most recovery situations you have time to turn yourself around pre-emptively. Edge guarding with fairs, is the main issue, but I would simply say doesn't use your DJ and then you should be able to DJ Klaw the other direction, then up b. If you're edge guarding with fairs, you shouldn't be at risk to getting gimped yourself.

 

[Cassius.]

He had this problem in Brawl.