Why Greninja getting into Smash Bros makes sense (whether you like it or not)

[DraginHikari]

Admittively I laughed in the same way I did when the Wii Fit Trainer was announced. My main rule of thumb with this stuff, if something can make me laugh that hard by it just being there, then I don't hate it enough to get upset by his presense.

 

[Banjodorf]

Between Smogon, Pokemon Online, and the secret underground black market for Protean Froakies, you had to be living under a freaking rock to think the fanbase wasn't losing their collective **** over Greninja. The people love him.

This is a good point. The competitive Pokemon scene had a FIELD day with Greninja. Not only did he look awesome and have a great, GREAT movepool, but he had access to one of if not THE most unique ability in the series.

If nothing else, you can't deny his popularity with the competitive scene. And honestly, why would Gamefreak give him such a unique ability if they weren't trying to make him a fan favorite? They know how important their competitive scene is.

Besides, I feel like starter Pokemon always have a leg up on other Pokemon, because they are always viewed as more important than literally any non-legendary in the wild.

I really don't get why it's so shocking that the biggest starter Pokemon from the new gen was chosen. Especially when he's thematically unique.

Surprising, yes. Shocking? Not once you think about it.

 

[Typs]

This is a good point. The competitive Pokemon scene had a FIELD day with Greninja. Not only did he look awesome and have a great, GREAT movepool, but he had access to one of if not THE most unique ability in the series.

If nothing else, you can't deny his popularity with the competitive scene. And honestly, why would Gamefreak give him such a unique ability if they weren't trying to make him a fan favorite? They know how important their competitive scene is.

I don't want to sound mean, but from a competive point of view a pokemon is just 1 or 2 type with some base stats and list of moves, even if the pokemon was a black pixel it wouldn't matter.

Besides, I feel like starter Pokemon always have a leg up on other Pokemon, because they are always viewed as more important than literally any non-legendary in the wild.

I really don't get why it's so shocking that the biggest starter Pokemon from the new gen was chosen. Especially when he's thematically unique.

Surprising, yes. Shocking? Not once you think about it.

It's shocking because it means that any character can be playable if it's going to advertise the most recent game of a franchise, I'm really scared to see how far this can go.

 

[Banjodorf]

I don't want to sound mean, but from a competive point of view a pokemon is just 1 or 2 type with some base stats and list of moves, even if the pokemon was a black pixel it wouldn't matter.


It's shocking because it means that any character can be playable if it's going to advertise the most recent game of a franchise, I'm really scared to see how far this can go.

Honestly step back and second, too much doom and gloom isn't good for a person.

So Sakurai added a character you're not too keen on, while everybody else (mostly) seems to be eating it up. It doesn't mean it's the end of the world, or that Sakurai's sold out, or anything like that. Honestly, it's not the first time he's picked an "out there" Pokemon choice, and Greninja is 1000% better than Pichu.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I don't want to sound mean, but from a competive point of view a pokemon is just 1 or 2 type with some base stats and list of moves, even if the pokemon was a black pixel it wouldn't matter.


It's shocking because it means that any character can be playable if it's going to advertise the most recent game of a franchise, I'm really scared to see how far this can go.

...

You don't sound mean, but you do sound ignorant.

A Pokemon is a collection of stats and types in all of its native contexts. Whether this be competitive or in the main game. The fact that Greninja has good typing, above-average stats, a unique ability and a deep movepool all make it very popular among the competitive community and its appearance and in-game performance make it very popular among the rest of the crowd as well. (Besides, with VGC and the online play, a lot more people are playing at least semi-competitively. A lot of the Pokemon crowd has cared about EVs and stats since B&W at least. All of this has only helped Greninja.)

There are plenty of worse choice for the Gen 6 slot. Greninja selection wasn't abritrary and is not unjustifiable. You are repeatedly ignoring all reasoning for the soundness of Greninja's inclusion and touting your own baseless conclusions.

"I'm really scared to see how far this can go."

Reality check. I'm sure the sun would still rise tomorrow if Aegislash had made it into Smash 4. What this is means is that Pokemon (or characters) that you're not expecting, or want, might get into Smash 4. You'll either still buy the game anyway, or if you care enough about the characters you want not getting in, then you won't. Oh, the horror.

Thane out.

 

[Ekans647]

Greninja seemed like the most popular Gen 6 Pokemon. While his reveal did catch me off-guard, I really happy he is in.

 

[YT123]

Before Lucario was announced, a lot of people thought this were going to be the reps for Pokémon: Pikachu, Kanto Trainer, Jigglypuff & Mewtwo. What do all of them have in common? Yes, they are all from generation one.. That's why I think Lucario and Greninja are great additions to the roster! And aside from that, Pokémon X & Y have sold 12 million units in 6 months! So it was pretty much inevitable that we would get an XY rep.

 

[OmegaRS]

Yes. Greninja was a super heavy hitter in terms of popularity from the time he was leaked. I expected him to be in the game, playable in some way, but I never thought he'd be a standalone. But honestly, I LOVE the fact that they included him.

 

[Oatmeal.]

To help make the game more recent, a Pokemon from X and Y would be a great option. Out of the 6th generation, Greninja was a clear choice of character, being human-like and well loved among fans. Zoroark was a bit too outdated. Seeing that Charizard made it in, the reps are not exclusive to Pokemon movie stars.

So yes, I think Greninja was an excellent choice of character.

HOWEVER I have some thoughts after his inclusion....will there be a grass type starter as well (likely candidate being Sceptile)? Second, Will another human-like Pokemon kill a much more deserving Pokemon's *coughmewtwocough* chances? I'm sort of doubting the grass starter, and there is automatically a spot reserved for Jigglypuff. It's not looking good for Mewtwo....

 

[Sonicguy726]

He didn't deserve it, I mean after gen 7 comes out he'll just be another starter pokemon, but either way he's really cool

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm a Zoroark supporter (RIP) and I think he definitely deserved it. He is the most popular Pokemon from the latest generation (I don't follow the anime but I think Ash has a Froakie?).

Only reason he hasn't reached Lucario/Charizard levels of popularity yet is because X/Y are still fairly new. Even though I prefer Chesnaught and Delphox Greninja is the new big thing now and I've accepted it.

He didn't deserve it, I mean after gen 7 comes out he'll just be another starter pokemon

Like Charizard, right?

 

[Sonicguy726]

Protean is an amazing ability, so greninja is amazing, so greninja is popular, so greninja in smash bros

 

[Typs]

Ok, just to clear things out, the "i'm scared" was indeed over the top and doesn't really describe how i fell, english isn't my first language so i don't have all the vocabulary necessary to describe my point of view and how i feel, plus i had something to do so i wanted to post quickly, i apologize, i should have waited a bit.
Anyway i still have some stuff to do so i'll just say this:
Even if Greninja is the most memorable Gen 6 pokemon that doen't make him a memorable pokemon, if he wasn't in smash4 nobody would have remember him after Gen 7.

 

[Banjodorf]

Ok, just to clear things out, the "i'm scared" was indeed over the top and doesn't really describe how i fell, english isn't my first language so i don't have all the vocabulary necessary to describe my point of view and how i feel, plus i had something to do so i wanted to post quickly, i apologize, i should have waited a bit.
Anyway i still have some stuff to do so i'll just say this:
Even if Greninja is the most memorable Gen 6 pokemon that doen't make him a memorable pokemon, if he wasn't in smash4 nobody would have remember him after Gen 7.

But the starters are arguably the most memorable pokemon of every gen minus the occasional Arceus/Mewtwo character.

It seems weird to say the starters are forgettable, when they're probably the evolutionary lines every single player remembers, because they always, always have them. Besides, with Greninja's growing popularity even before Smash 4, he'll be about as forgettable as Charizard. Lucario wasn't even a starter and it happened to him.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Protean is an amazing ability, so greninja is amazing, so greninja is popular, so greninja in smash bros

Even before special abilities were revealed Greninja was always "the chosen one" among the majority of the Pokemon fans. The fact that he ended up being competitively viable only sealed the deal.

I would know since I followed X/Y's release religiously.

 

[PAPCGyE]

Nooooo where is Jigglypuff I can´t live without him!!!

 

[Sonicguy726]

But the starters are arguably the most memorable pokemon of every gen minus the occasional Arceus/Mewtwo character.

It seems weird to say the starters are forgettable, when they're probably the evolutionary lines every single player remembers, because they always, always have them. Besides, with Greninja's growing popularity even before Smash 4, he'll be about as forgettable as Charizard. Lucario wasn't even a starter and it happened to him.

Although lucario had a movie

 

[Banjodorf]

Although lucario had a movie

That's true, but I'd think for fans who didn't see the movie, he was for a time less memorable than any starter.

That said, he's clearly in deep now, and will probably be a part of the poke-roster forever. (I'm seeing that for Zard, and hopefully for Greninja also. Let's see where Smash 4 and Gen 6 take him.)

 

[smashingDoug]

Why should I? He's a sick as hell water-ninja pokémon.
Lucario is an aura pokémon who resembles a japanese martial artist.

They look nothing alike.

ya i was a bit sick during the smash direct so all i really remember was that water ninja star was looked like it worked like that shadow ball or aura ball what lucario and mewtwo had but now that i watched it again he looks pretty fun to play as

 

[Banjodorf]

Even before special abilities were revealed Greninja was always "the chosen one" among the majority of the Pokemon fans. The fact that he ended up being competitively viable only sealed the deal.

I would know since I followed X/Y's release religiously.

Yeah. Once the starters were shown, the initial reaction to the three was the following:

Chesnaught: Either "The hell? That's not a Pokemon" or "Awesome!"
Delphox: "Ehhhh" (That is until people saw the wand again.)
Greninja: "Cool but where's teh bubbles?", "That tongue is weird" and "HOLY ****."

 

[ryuu seika]

Hey guys, I'm an outsider to the world of modern pokemon and have been since around the start of 3rd gen so I can say from an objective standpoint what was talked about, atleast in non-pokemon circles. The sixth gens people spoke of were only 4 in number and they were Greninja, Honedge, Aegislash and Chandelure.
Of those 4, we can consider Aegislash and Honedge one and the same, especially as the former is essentially just two of the latter (in my limited understanding atleast). From there, I can place them in based on how interested people seemed in them and how often:

1) Honedge/Aegislash
2) Chandelure
3) Greninja

So, to summarize, Greninja is definitely one of the most well known and iconic sixth generation pokemon but I am pretty sure it is neither the most so nor the most popular. It looks to me as though the others were disregarded due to Greninja being simpler to implement but I could be wrong.
Oh and just wait, Honedge will make a sweet double edged sword item with its life draining ability.

 

[Banjodorf]

^

Chandelure is a 5th gen Pokemon, are you thinking of someone else?

And you're right though about Aegislash. He and Greninja are at least similar in their popularity and iconic status for Gen 6, but I think Greninja pulls ahead just enough and is very obviously easier to make a really cool moveset for as a Smash character. A floating sword seems interesting, but...given the choice between making a moveset for that or a ninja frog, I'd pick the latter.

 

[SirPainsalot]

He's definitely deserving.

Think of it this way; he's the Charizard of Gen 6. It gives representation for the latest gen like Lucario did, and he's the closest pokemon to a Lucario we have.

He has a humanoid body-type, he's badass, and extremely popular as a starter compared to the other two. Not to mention the obvious moveset potential on display.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I made a very similar thread for the Wii Fit Trainer right after her reveal since so many people were confused as to why she got into Smash: http://smashboards.com/threads/wii-...n-proves-how-clever-sakurai-really-is.337293/

Since a lot of people seem to be confused about Greninja's inclusion I feel compelled to do the same. Keep in mind this is all coming from a lifetime Pokemon fan who heavily followed Pokemon X/Y all the way up to its release and would much rather have seen Zoroark instead. I'm going to sum this up in 3 quick paragraphs.

So why DID Greninja get into Smash Bros?

REASON #1 - The Pokemon series needed a new, shiny representative for it's latest iteration: Generation 6

This should be pretty self explanatory. With every new Smash game the Pokemon series receives a newcomer to literally "represent" the newest generation. Smash 64 started with Pikachu and Jiggs from Gen 1, Melee gave us Pichu from Gen 2, Brawl gave us Lucario from Gen 4, and now we have Greninja from Gen 6. Thanks to this trend quite a few very popular and viable Smash candidates have missed out, such as Blazekin (Gen 3), Genesect (Gen 5), and Zoroark (Gen 5)... All mostly due to bad timing. With Pokemon X/Y having been released just 6 months ago the timing was perfect for a Gen 6 rep to take the stage. So since Smash 4 continued the trend, why was Greninja chosen over the rest? This leads to my next point...

REASON #2 - Greninja (although still relatively new) is VERY popular among the Pokemon crowd, and has always been treated as the "next big thing" even before his Smash debt.

From the moment Greninja was first leaked he was easily the most popular Generation 6 starter among the fans. Here is a poll that started all the way back in October of last year: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?617734-Starters-Discussion-Thread-v2 As more time went on his popularity only grew from there for 2 main reasons:
1) He ended up being better (in terms of battling) than most other Generation 6 Pokemon mostly due to his stats and special ability... Very much like Lucario.
2) Ash Ketchum, star of the Pokemon cartoon series, ended up choosing Froakie (the 1st stage of Greninja's evolution line) as his very first Gen 6 Pokemon.
Sure Greninja still isn't near the point where Charizard, Lucario, or Mewtwo are at, but you have to remember that Pokemon X/Y has only been out for SIX months. He hasn't had the time the other 3 have had to establish himself. His popularity will only rise once Ash evolves his Froakie, and being a Smash Bro will help as well. He is the next big thing now whether we want to admit it or not.

REASON #3 - Sakurai LOVES thinking outside of the box and surprising us.

This is also self explanatory. He did it with the Villager, he did it with Wii Fit Trainer, he did it with Rosalina and Luma, so is it REALLY that surprising that he did it once again with Greninja? It shouldn't be. Sakurai seems to really have a knack for taking characters that aren't as expected and molding them into fighters that fit well into the Smash universe. Like I said back in June 2013 after WFT's reveal:

I don't think Sakurai was trying to cater to a specific demographic per say. Instead I think he wanted to show everyone that he's still thinking outside of the box with this new roster, so expect the unexpected.

Hopefully this answers any questions some might have had when it comes to the ninja frog. Since he's still relatively new a lot of people are skeptical but I'm pretty sure everyone will eventually warm up to him just like all of the other characters. I'm already starting to.

 

[Trigger123]

As a character he looks really good and fun to play as but as representation I feel he should have been 1 of 3 with a new Pokemon trainer

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I think he is the perfect representation of Gen 6

 

[Reila]

Does it need to make sense? I mean, Greninja looks cool and seem to be fun to play as, that is all that matters to me.

Also guys, I think we should refer Greninja as "it", since its gender isn't known. Calling it a "he" doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Katakiri]

Really they couldn't have picked a Pokemon I'm more neutral about. Design-wise, it's probably the best designed Pokemon they've had in years. The tongue scarf is weird but brilliantly weird. I've seen people make edits of Greninja that replaces the tongue with bubbles but it suffers heavily from 2-color syndrome (blue & white) so the tongue is a very pleasing contrast. So I can see why its popular, but Smash popular? Not really. Mega Evolutions would have more than sufficed for XY representation.

As for the moveset and how he moves, this guy looks like a Lucario clone with added speed. I mean I don't know what else they could have done with Greninja but after Rosalina and Villager, I expect a little more from Sakurai as Pokemon is a series where logic is thrown out the window so a generic fighter is just really disappointing. However, I don't think we've seen he entire moveset so I can't totally dismiss it yet but I'll at least give Sakurai credit for the Substitute doll being mad cute, even if it is a reskin of Lucario's Double Team.

But I got my orange dragon back so I'm pretty cool with whatever Sakurai adds so long as Ice Climbers are either gone or Nana can't grab.

 

[Trigger123]

He looks like a great character but would have like it more if he was part of 3 Pokemon with a Pokemon trainer

 

[Reila]

Greninja deserves to be playable as much as Charizard does. If you are okay with Charizard being in the game and against Greninja's inclusion, you are just being biased. I can't think of any more fitting Generation VI Pokémon to be in Smash, even though Greninja is only my #2 favorite, right behind Delphox (who would have been an amazing addition to the series as well, albeit not as unique as Greninja)

 

[Sonicguy726]

Really they couldn't have picked a Pokemon I'm more neutral about. Design-wise, it's probably the best designed Pokemon they've had in years. The tongue scarf is weird but brilliantly weird. I've seen people make edits of Greninja that replaces the tongue with bubbles but it suffers heavily from 2-color syndrome (blue & white) so the tongue is a very pleasing contrast. So I can see why its popular, but Smash popular? Not really. Mega Evolutions would have more than sufficed for XY representation.

As for the moveset and how he moves, this guy looks like a Lucario clone with added speed. I mean I don't know what else they could have done with Greninja but after Rosalina and Villager, I expect a little more from Sakurai as Pokemon is a series where logic is thrown out the window so a generic fighter is just really disappointing. However, I don't think we've seen he entire moveset so I can't totally dismiss it yet but I'll at least give Sakurai credit for the Substitute doll being mad cute, even if it is a reskin of Lucario's Double Team.

But I got my orange dragon back so I'm pretty cool with whatever Sakurai adds so long as Ice Climbers are either gone or Nana can't grab.

What how is he anything like lucario, he's a ninja and Lucario is more martial arts

 

[Arcanir]

I'd say yes as of the Gen 6 Pokémon, he is the one that stands out the most. Popularity-wise, no other Gen 6 Pokémon touches him in that area and he was looking to become a "Charizard" on his own merits. So all in all, he was the perfect choice for that generation.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I think your having trouble believing greninja popularity because your looking at it from a smash point of view if you were to go to the smogon forums and see how much pages of text talk about greninja charazard and lucario there numbers are very close to the same while other are allot lower.

 

[grizby2]

greninja is one of those characters.. ya know?

when I first saw greninja, I thought, "wow, what a well designed pokemon! that would be pretty sick if it was in smash bros.. heh".
I was a bit dumb-founded when I checked the site.

so wow, greninja is a character now. im at a loss for words. like...hes BADASS! but at the same time, I was expecting mewtwo I guess. Greninja is a great pick to rep the newest generation though, I definitely have to give them that. he looks neat and I look forward to play as him!

 

[ryuu seika]

Chandelure is a 5th gen Pokemon, are you thinking of someone else?

And you're right though about Aegislash. He and Greninja are at least similar in their popularity and iconic status for Gen 6, but I think Greninja pulls ahead just enough and is very obviously easier to make a really cool moveset for as a Smash character. A floating sword seems interesting, but...given the choice between making a moveset for that or a ninja frog, I'd pick the latter.

Like I said, I'm not up on my modern pokemon .

Personally, I would opt for the floating sword every time but I can see why that might just be me.

 

[Katakiri]

What how is he anything like lucario, he's a ninja and Lucario is more martial arts

Well he's more a clone more along the lines of Wolf really tho tbh, Greninja takes his moves from quite a few characters. I mean none of his moves are original.

• Water Shuriken & Aura Sphere are both chargeable projectiles
• Substitute and Double Team look entirely identical (user vanishes then sweeps from one side)
• Aqua Jet recovery seems to behave identically to Pikachu's Quick Attack recovery
  
• Greninja's teleport/vanish is literally MK's Dimensional Cape reskined (he can even attack out of it)
• Up-Tilt is every over-head sweeping strike we've had before
• Up-Smash is just Greninja's version of Sheik's Up-Smash
• And the rest of his tilts are generic Kicks every other character has

Again I don't mind his inclusion (I still think no Gen 6 Pokemon deserved a spot other than Mega Pokemon but they at least picked a somewhat memorable one) but if he doesn't add anything unique to the game at all, then why is he here? Even Wolf at least had a feral fighting-style; Greninja is a copy-paste of 5+ other characters and moves with add water effects. I don't care how far up Greninja's ass anyone is, they have to admit that is just disappointing.

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

Yes.

He seems like he's becoming a new Charizard. No other starter after Charizard has really gotten popular this fast.

(Except maybe Blaziken, but I wasn't really following Pokémon popularity at that time)

 

[Mysteltainn]

To be fair, the Water Shuriken functions differently once it hits an enemy. It hit-stuns the enemy whilst knocking them slowly back as opposed to pushing them up and away like Aura Sphere would. If anything, the charged Water Shuriken functions more like Ness' PK Fire that shoves people back slightly. It looks like it's going to stun people and allow for further combos.

Also, there are many characters with charging beams / orbs.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Greninja is the new Charizard/Feraligatr/Blaziken/whatever starters in 4 & 5 were ridiculously more popular than the other two.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I'd say Ferali and Typhlosion were pretty even in Gen 2. Infernape was the lead in Gen 4 but he wasn't really close to Blaziken or Charizard level. And I think everyone wants to forget about Gen 5 starters. I know I do