A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 12,542
- Location
- RPV, California
- NNID
- A2ZOMG
- Switch FC
- SW 8400 1713 9427
There are only two things that Ganondorf lacks in this game that make him bad competitively. If one of those things was fixed, he would be a GREAT character. I mean seriously good.
Ganondorf either needs a safe poke like Jab or N-air or D-tilt's ending lag reduced (or B-air's hitbox hitting lower). OR he needs a shieldgrab with good range. If his grab range was at least as good as ROB's, he would be TIERS better. Fundamentally, the thing I'm addressing is how Ganondorf is forced to use KO moves to deal damage.
Everything else about Ganondorf is good enough. Ganondorf's out of shield game actually is pretty good. Contrary to what Kalm implies, Ganondorf's 8 frame Jab and 10 frame DA and tilts are valuable out of shield options. Look at frame data. Most attacks in this game have around 20-25 frames of ending lag, and Jab out of shield is 15 frames, DA/tilts out of shield are 17 frames. Most attacks don't have as much range as Ganondorf's stuff either. If you're having trouble punishing stuff out of shield, it's because you need to get better at doing that, or it's because you're in that situation where you really need a better shieldgrab.
It's not THAT hard to get kills with Ganondorf. Except he's hurt more than most characters by stale moves. One subtle problem with Ganondorf is that it is hard to land consecutive hits, since Ganondorf likes to do a lot of damage in just a few hits. Most of the time, Ganondorf is forced to use his best KO moves (mainly DA and sometimes D-tilt) as damage dealers because he can't punish people with his grab, and in some cases, his Jab doesn't have enough range either. If you could grab people consistently, there would be no trouble dealing damage consistently. Although F-throw isn't as good as DDD's B-throw, getting 15% from a F-throw and a pummel is still quite respectable. Or if you could spam N-air, B-air, D-tilt, or Jab and only get punished 5% of the time, that would also be sufficient enough in giving Ganondorf a consistent damage dealer. With an option like that, you wouldn't need to rely on DA as much for dealing damage, and then you would start seeing Ganondorf get kills a LOT more efficiently.
I stress, the ONLY reason why Ganondorf sucks is because he needs a safe, consistent damage dealer that doesn't stale a KO move. Everything else about him is fine. When he gets going, he can score the KO pretty quickly and easily, and he can edgeguard extremely well with his huge hitboxes that gimp very easily.
Ultimately though, he's probably the worst character overall, just in terms of having unwinnable matchups in general. However seriously, he really could have been a good character if just one or two small things about him were changed.
Ganondorf either needs a safe poke like Jab or N-air or D-tilt's ending lag reduced (or B-air's hitbox hitting lower). OR he needs a shieldgrab with good range. If his grab range was at least as good as ROB's, he would be TIERS better. Fundamentally, the thing I'm addressing is how Ganondorf is forced to use KO moves to deal damage.
Everything else about Ganondorf is good enough. Ganondorf's out of shield game actually is pretty good. Contrary to what Kalm implies, Ganondorf's 8 frame Jab and 10 frame DA and tilts are valuable out of shield options. Look at frame data. Most attacks in this game have around 20-25 frames of ending lag, and Jab out of shield is 15 frames, DA/tilts out of shield are 17 frames. Most attacks don't have as much range as Ganondorf's stuff either. If you're having trouble punishing stuff out of shield, it's because you need to get better at doing that, or it's because you're in that situation where you really need a better shieldgrab.
It's not THAT hard to get kills with Ganondorf. Except he's hurt more than most characters by stale moves. One subtle problem with Ganondorf is that it is hard to land consecutive hits, since Ganondorf likes to do a lot of damage in just a few hits. Most of the time, Ganondorf is forced to use his best KO moves (mainly DA and sometimes D-tilt) as damage dealers because he can't punish people with his grab, and in some cases, his Jab doesn't have enough range either. If you could grab people consistently, there would be no trouble dealing damage consistently. Although F-throw isn't as good as DDD's B-throw, getting 15% from a F-throw and a pummel is still quite respectable. Or if you could spam N-air, B-air, D-tilt, or Jab and only get punished 5% of the time, that would also be sufficient enough in giving Ganondorf a consistent damage dealer. With an option like that, you wouldn't need to rely on DA as much for dealing damage, and then you would start seeing Ganondorf get kills a LOT more efficiently.
I stress, the ONLY reason why Ganondorf sucks is because he needs a safe, consistent damage dealer that doesn't stale a KO move. Everything else about him is fine. When he gets going, he can score the KO pretty quickly and easily, and he can edgeguard extremely well with his huge hitboxes that gimp very easily.
Ultimately though, he's probably the worst character overall, just in terms of having unwinnable matchups in general. However seriously, he really could have been a good character if just one or two small things about him were changed.
