Why Fox's Up-Air is Stronger than You Think

[Gamer_Mason]

I've been using fox as a secondary for a while. And I found from watching other Fox's play, that for the most part, up-air does not exist as a staple in their games.
I don't understand why.

I wrote a lot on it, so I put it in a pastebin which I think is easier to read than a post here.
http://pastebin.com/bhW0RXME



Sorry for referencing Larry a bit too much. I think I saw Snow use more upairs recently too. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean other players aren't doing it. I just feel like most fox's I see do not use it this way.
I think the biggest drawback is that this active use of uair tends to make it stale.


I won't claim I'm 100% correct about everything. What I wrote down is merely my impressions from playing fox the way I enjoy to play fox.
If you aren't sure if you should consider what I am saying, I'm ranked #4 in Oregon, and easily own the strongest fox in the state. it's not much but if it helps you consider what I'm saying, that would be nice.

Consider it and help me explore the potential of this move!

 

[EPM]

I don't think Fox players underrate up air, I see most of them use it a lot and everybody knows the juggle potential. I wrote a lot more about it in the Fox facebook group when this was posted but yes, I agree that it is a great attack, probably Fox's second best attack after up tilt. A few lasers fix the staling so that it can kill more effectively also.
If you have any videos of you using it where other Foxes don't, please post them.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

I don't think Fox players underrate up air, I see most of them use it a lot and everybody knows the juggle potential. I wrote a lot more about it in the Fox facebook group when this was posted but yes, I agree that it is a great attack, probably Fox's second best attack after up tilt. A few lasers fix the staling so that it can kill more effectively also.
If you have any videos of you using it where other Foxes don't, please post them.

From what I watch, I see fox players opting for nair instead of uair most of the time. They also won't uthrow to start the positional advantage that leads into this sort of thing after dthrow stuff stops working.

The only video I have at all of my fox is taken from a quads event. I'm trying to find a time where I can record exactly what I mean. Fortunately I don't have to.

A good example is Larry vs DKWill here; check whenever DK is above larry. it's basically EXACTLY what I mean more fox players should start to add into their games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGOz7clUgFI I'm pretty sure that other fox's are not this liberal with upair (if they are show me!! i love this move). And this works on more characters than just DK... it probably works best on DK though :B

 

[luke_atyeo]

Pretty sure the general consensus amongst top players who use fox is that uair is ****ing amazing, uair and bair are probably about 90% of my kills

 

[Top Boss]

I was honestly thinking the same thing. His up air is amazing yet I barely see people use it. I'm very good with his up air, which helps me a ton.

 

[colinies]

I'm officially one of those Fox's who don't use Uair NEARLY enough. Any way you guys have found to really consistently practice the sh uair?

 

[luke_atyeo]

I'm officially one of those Fox's who don't use Uair NEARLY enough. Any way you guys have found to really consistently practice the sh uair?

I used to spend 5 to 10 minutes a day practicing sh uair, I'd practice it on the spot, then I'd practice it moving back and forth across the stage, then I'd practice it out of an action, so like dash attack and then sh uair straight after. I did it with double sticking (up on control stick to jump, then up on cstick to uair), if you practice it consistently and in little scenarios similar to where you'd need it in a game, you'll get it, and 5 to 10 minutes a day is very doable, you'll learn it in no time.

Of course after putting in heaps of time into getting it consistent, I ended up making the switch to tilt stick, which makes sh uair impossible to mess up, so if you need it and you are messing it up a lot and dropping kills because of it, consider tilt stick.


SH uair is amazing and sets up frame traps.

 

[Pudgetalks]

how do people double stick up air with tilt stick?? are people using the claw to get to the c-stick so fast?

 

[luke_atyeo]

...?

you do know what double stick means dont you?

 

[Pudgetalks]

I assumed you were buffering the up airs without tap jump.

 

[luke_atyeo]

how would that be 'double sticking'?


Using the control stick to jump, and the cstick to uair is double sticking.
control STICK plus c STICK
stick plus stick = double stick.

I would have thought that name made it obvious.


And if you are using the cstick to uair, what difference does it make whether its smash or tilt stick since neither option alters what the cstick does in the air.

 

[Sensane]

I don't main Fox nor do I have him as a secondary but I love his up air. I'd agree with how underrated it is. Also, lookin a bit like Leffen there.

 

[Gamer_Mason]

how would that be 'double sticking'?


Using the control stick to jump, and the cstick to uair is double sticking.
control STICK plus c STICK
stick plus stick = double stick.

I would have thought that name made it obvious.


And if you are using the cstick to uair, what difference does it make whether its smash or tilt stick since neither option alters what the cstick does in the air.

If the C-Stick is set to smash, then if you try to jump then immediately up-air, your jump becomes a jump-canceled Smash-Attack.
There is no such thing as a jump-canceled up-tilt, so the buffer instead makes your next move the instant up-air. It's extremely easier to perform.

Edit: I do claw though. I press X with the index finger and then up on the c-stick with my thumb. It's pretty natural when you're used to it. And it saves my thumb some movement, which is nice.

 

[Chalice]

Talked with Larry a bit over Twitter

Spaced Uair beats out a lot of hitboxes people may try to land with like Yoshi Fair and the Mario bros Nair

 

[RespectingOpinions]

There's a reason why Larry's the best Fox. I think he's one of the only Fox's who has practically spent a lot of lab time with the uair and knows it's timings well enough to use it effectively in tournament matches.

 

[luke_atyeo]

If the C-Stick is set to smash, then if you try to jump then immediately up-air, your jump becomes a jump-canceled Smash-Attack.
There is no such thing as a jump-canceled up-tilt, so the buffer instead makes your next move the instant up-air. It's extremely easier to perform.

yeah I'm aware dude, I used to use smash stick and practiced the **** out of it to prevent the upsmash, but what he asked was how do you double stick with tilt stick on, so what I said makes sense considering what he asked and my question is still unanswered. But whatever who cares it doesnt matter

Talked with Larry a bit over Twitter

Spaced Uair beats out a lot of hitboxes people may try to land with like Yoshi Fair and the Mario bros Nair

yeah, the actual hitbox of foxes uair extends beyond the animation, not brawl snake levels of bull**** invisible hitboxes that hit way further than his animations, but it extends enough that it makes a difference, learning to hit with the invisible part beyond the animation will make the difference between beating or not beating out a lot of attacks with foxes uair so if you are having trouble getting it to work, try uairing from slightly further away than you'd think you need to.

 

[Top Boss]

I hold up on the analog stick(tap jump off), jump with Y, and press A to do my SH up airs. I don't really get up smashes with it anymore, which is great. It's kind of a strange method to do the up airs but I think it works out well.

 

[JBix]

The best use for upair for me is when I can space just the second hit. It almost feels like it's an extended hitbox.

 

[Foster J.]

Doing auto cancelled Uair's doesn't REQUIRE you to change C to tilt, I'm doing that with it on smash, but for sure you get to spam it more and have more freedom with them.

However due to me not wanting to give up running Usmash / too lazy to figure out how to do a running JC Usmash I'm not dabbling with it currently.

Sadly though you can miss the 2nd hit because of reasons, yes Uair combos into itself at lower percentages, but they can always just DI to the sides and then maybe avoid it.

 

[colinies]

Yeah, I still use Smash stick and i just press and super quick with my thumb all in one motion, works fine for me. And I get the advantage of having easy Up Smash with

 

[Rhus]

I use X to jump and I can still autocancel Uairs from a short hop. Requires my hands to be warmed up though haha.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I've commented on the Social thread that my SH U-airs are weird because I short hop with X then push the C-stick up with my palm. Is it unconventional? Maybe, but it works for me. I've been doing it fairly consistently now with this method, which lets me keep Tap jump off and avoid derping inputs (particularly Up-smashes).

 

[Foster J.]

Well whatever floats your boat Cozy.
I still just use it by SH with the control pad and C, and that's with C on smash still.

 

[Dependent]

Is Up Throw Up Air still a thing?

 

[Sensane]

Is Up Throw Up Air still a thing?

That's with Falco, not Fox.

 

[Jamurai]

Can still work with Fox, it's just not a combo. Opponents can underestimate the speed of double jump Uair. Or they will airdodge which you can read by delaying your double jump a bit and hitting them as their airdodge ends. If they jump out then, since Fox is the quickest faller, he can just land and follow up on their landing; they will have limited options after losing their jump.

Uthrow is bae and helps me work on reading opponent's movements, and predicting airdodges & landing habits.

 

[FeelMeUp]

Uthrow Uair is definitely still a thing. It's not true at all, though.
With Uthrow you have a few milliseconds to react to their DI or action and if you see an airdodge/dair after you move a little or short hop go for the double jump Uair immediately.

 

[dadominator8]

I've been using fox as a secondary for a while. And I found from watching other Fox's play, that for the most part, up-air does not exist as a staple in their games.
I don't understand why.

I wrote a lot on it, so I put it in a pastebin which I think is easier to read than a post here.
http://pastebin.com/bhW0RXME



Sorry for referencing Larry a bit too much. I think I saw Snow use more upairs recently too. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean other players aren't doing it. I just feel like most fox's I see do not use it this way.
I think the biggest drawback is that this active use of uair tends to make it stale.


I won't claim I'm 100% correct about everything. What I wrote down is merely my impressions from playing fox the way I enjoy to play fox.
If you aren't sure if you should consider what I am saying, I'm ranked #4 in Oregon, and easily own the strongest fox in the state. it's not much but if it helps you consider what I'm saying, that would be nice.

Consider it and help me explore the potential of this move!

Yeah Fox's upair is really strong, like not melee strong but strong

 

[arncakes]

I think the best way is to set a shoulder button to jump(I use Z) and c stick to attack. I enjoy being able to buffer any aerial out of a short hop while moving any direction. Hard to get used to though.