Why does Nintendo keep relying on gimmicks, when clearly they aren't really working

[IanTheGamer]

There's a difference between gimmicks and innovation, innovation are things like the N64 controller, the SNES Super FX Chip, the PlayStation DualShock, the Dreamcast VMU, and XBOX Live, gimmicks are stuff that may be unique but have been done better before and and/or unnecessary features that really don't work as advertised, and more often then not don't catch on (Sega Genesis Add Ons, Virtual Boy,), Like the Wii Remote, the idea of motion controls for gaming was around WAAAAAYYYYY before the Wii was even a pipe dream, (Sega Activator, Power Glove, Roll N Rocker, Dreamcast motion controls, PlayStation eye toy) and most of them worked better, the WiiMote was horribly inaccurate for most Wii games, except Wii Sports, sure the Wii was the first to catch on, but that's not the point, the Wii, 3DS, and Wii U, are sold on gimmicks, the 3DS caught on because of the reasonable price, but the Wii U is an example of a gimmick console failing, I mean sure the touchpad is a nice addition, and has it merits, it's kind of unnecessary when you think about it, the gamepad's kinda why the Wii U is as underpowered as it is, Nintendo wonders why 3rd Party developers won't develop games for Wii U, Well maybe could it that Nintendo is putting gimmicks on their consoles that they haven't the foggiest idea how to develop for them, if Nintendo took the money spent on adding the gimmicks, and used it for more important things, such as marketing, attracting 3rd parties, and maybe boosting the power of the console a little bit, along with a different name, the Wii U might not be flopping as bad as it has been.

 

[BigBossJelly]

Honestly love the gamepad, but your right about the name hurting it. They also don't market NEARLY as much as Sony and Microsoft. I'm all for innovation and trying old things again from a different prespective....but you got to go all the way with it. The Wii had games I loved like: No More Heroes 2, Super Mario Galaxy (both), Mario Kart Wii, Monster Hunter Tri, Castle of Shikigami 3 and on and on and on. But they really didn't go as far as they could have gone and with the problematic controls of Skyward Sword I kind of thank god they didn't this time around.

I'm going to stick with Nintendo through the next few generations and I hope that they keep trying new things....but I also hope that they look at what the competition is doing and try to make decisions based on that.

 

[HeavyLobster]

The Gamepad is actually something I would consider a good innovation that was implemented too soon. The main problem is that it's too expensive at the moment to implement multiple gamepad functionality, since it currently adds about $100-120 to the price tag, when they probably should've waited until the price fell to around $70-80, so that it would be feasible for people to buy a second one. At any rate, the Gamepad is nowhere near the Wii U's biggest problem. The Wii U has struggled mainly due to poor advertising and a lack of games early in its lifespan, which is the reason why its install base is still so low and why it's missing out on ports that the PS3/360 are still getting. The Gamepad also isn't the reason the Wii U is underpowered, it's the fact that developing for a console as powerful as the PS4/XBOne is very expensive, and would make pretty much any console game that isn't Mario/Zelda/Smash unprofitable, and Nintendo isn't willing to shoulder those costs for what are generally marginal improvements in game quality. Honestly, the Wii U would've been much better off if Nintendo simply prepared properly for the transition to HD and brought out all of its games about 6 months sooner than it did.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Uh... I simply thought Nintendo relied upon trying to bring the market stuff that was not necessarily mainstream. Some things work well because they were done well. You can call the motion controls poor for the wii, but I wonder about the price and quality of the motion controls in the past. The virtual boy was an attempt at an idea that went poorly due to poor design rather than it being a bad idea. I think 3D is an interesting feature, but for the time there was not a way to do it well.

The 3DS I think does 3D very well and it makes sense for the system. The problem with most non-glasses 3D methods require you to sit at specific locations. Using 3D on small devices works well because it is generally a single person activity with a fixed radius. Nintendo brought 3D into the market at time where it was affordable, well-done, and with a slight 3D buzz going about (3D movies/TVs). Nintendo I feel tried to make a call on 3D being bigger than it simply turned out to be. Look back at say Blu-ray vs HD DVD war awhile back. Now, Blu-ray is more mainstream. 3D probably could have been the next thing like that. However, 3D does not seem to be for everyone.

I am not sure if there are gimmicks going around or not compared to simply trying to appeal to different parts of the potential market rather than bending over and joining Microsoft/Sony in the hardware war.

 

[Knife Myths]

Like the Wii Remote, the idea of motion controls for gaming was around WAAAAAYYYYY before the Wii was even a pipe dream, (Sega Activator, Power Glove, Roll N Rocker, Dreamcast motion controls, PlayStation eye toy) and most of them worked better,

I know threads like this make you feel like a Games Journalist (TM) but please refrain from saying things that are blatantly untrue.

The Activator:

The Activator is effectively a glorified control pad, with , , , , , , and buttons mapped to each of the eight segments....many games such asMortal Kombat and Comix Zone are considered to be more difficult to play with an Activator, and many games which rely on fast reactions are not suitable for this style of control scheme at all. Furthermore the light beams are easily distorted by a non-flat ceiling or obstructions such as beams of a ceiling fan or light fixture. As a result, the Activator did not see much commercial success and was retired mere months after launch.

The Powerglove was notoriously difficult to use and is seen in hindsight as one of the worst controllers of all time, not even going to bother digging up a source.

I can barely find any info on the Roll N Rocker but apparently it was just a big control pad you had to lean on and wasn't designed to support anyone over 100 pounds.

By Dreamcast motion controls, I'm assuming you're referring to the Fishing Controller, which had very basic motion detection, apparently just detecting if it was being moved in a certain direction. So probably the best of your list, which makes sense because the Dreamcast remains the best console.

I actually owned an Eyetoy and it's pretty much the epitome of gimmick design you're deriding. It was just a webcam. It barely worked and was mostly only compatible with minigame collections comparable to the kind of shovelware you saw on the Wii. Most of which were first party. Imagine if Wii Sports wasn't fun and didn't work, but Nintendo kept releasing sequels to it until they abruptly decided to pretend motion controls never happened, only to rehash the concept every generation pretending it's something new and innovative.

The Wii was far from perfect but it was easily the first proper attempt at motion controls as anything more than a gimmick. I don't even care about the WiiU so whatever keep having your console war of the week thread.

 

[EddyBearr]

I absolutely love the gamepad. I don't consider it a gimmick: I consider it a future necessity for consoles. The gamepad allows you to play in a way that nobody else can while being on the same TV. The ghost in Luigi's Mansion on Nintendoland -- being the Stage or a Stage Boss or Master Hand on Smash Bros. Being able to play on a TV while somebody else is watching TV or even playing a different console.

Gamepad is amazing.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

It's not just Nintendo that hasn't made any super-innovative way to play games in the last couple years. It's all of The Big 3. Motion controls, 3D, and asymmetric tablet controls are nice, but they don't bring gaming to new heights. The VR craze doesn't look like it'll change that until we have full-immersion VR like a NerveGear.

I blame a plateau in our current entertainment technology for this. I predict it will take about a decade or two until we see something remotely futuristic.

 

[Firus]

I'm really confused about the number of people nowadays who talk about the Wii like it wasn't successful. I mean yeah, plenty of "hardcore gamers" have something to say about it, but are we really going to sit here and pretend that everybody and their grandmother (literally) wasn't talking about it back when it was big? Are we really going to pretend Nintendo didn't print money with it?

Like on principle I sort of agree, because the GameCube is my favorite console and Nintendo didn't have any "innovations" and it's just a library of a ton of fantastic games. But the GameCube also didn't fare that great and was looked down upon by most gamers constantly through its lifespan and I honestly can't blame Nintendo for the direction they've taken. The Wii was a huge success due to attracting non-gamers, and I'm sure that between keeping the same name and having the gamepad (reminiscent of tablets that have become commonplace in society), they figured they could draw the same crowd in again. These were less successful than they'd hoped, obviously, but I can see what their thought process was.

I also don't really get why we need to constantly rehash the same complaints at Nintendo about how well the Wii U isn't doing but maybe that's just me.

 

[finalark]

Like on principle I sort of agree, because the GameCube is my favorite console and Nintendo didn't have any "innovations" and it's just a library of a ton of fantastic games.

Truth be told, I want to agree with the principle. But I'm not entirely sure I'd love the GCN as much as I do if I didn't grow up with it.

On topic, I to kind of sort of agree with the general idea of this topic, but on the offhand I also see some of the advantages. For example, the DS was a gimmick that turned out to be a brilliant idea. Not to mention that you can't deny the fact that the Wii is the best selling console of all time, so clearly they were doing something right.

I don't really think that the Wii U's poor sales have anything to do with it being gimmick, since when you get down to it the Wuu is just a giant DS. I think the real reason why its struggling is because Nintendo has done a poor job of conveying to the casual audience exactly what a Wii U is and why they would want one when they already have a Wii. Doesn't help that the Wii name has a negative connotation in the minds of self-proclaimed "hardcore" gamers.

Oh well, I'm sure this is all part of the cycle of Nintendo hate. I'm sure we'll be seeing people praising the Wuu to high heaven in about tens years or so. People tend to the forget this, but despite how beloved the N64 is these days back when it was considered current the N64 had a reputation of being "that console that has one or two incredible games a year but nothing but shoddy PS1 ports otherwise." If SEGA had been as competent with the Saturn internationally as they were in Japan the N64 would have been screwed.

 

[Booster]

*Nope let's not*

 

[Hypercat-Z]

The Gamepad could transport on Wii U some of the mechanics only the DS and 3DS had. So I'm hoping to see, soon or later, an episode (even a spin off) of Ace Attorney for the Wii U.

 

[Firus]

I can't believe somebody actually said that those pieces of **** worked better then Wiimote...you're giving Gamecube Kid a run for his money. All of those are considered some of the worst controllers of all time, "Oh you can't possibly mean all of them right Boozester" No I'm serious. Sega Activator had too much set up and was more inaccurate then Kinect, Power Glove doesn't work except for Rad Racer, Roll N Rocker doesn't work for Jack****, The "Dreamcast Motion Controls" was just a really ****ty fishing rod accessory and Playstation Eye can suck my balls, you have to either be a certain height for it to recognize you (As a kid I was short obviously, now I'm relatively tall) or if you're too tall you need to stand VERY far away from the camera and the games weren't worth the effort.

You and Gamecube Kid would be perfect for each other if you were both gay and around the same age. The idea may have been conceived before Wii, but was it pulled off well? **** NO DASHCON WAS PULLED OFF BETTER, ****ING DASHCON, AS IN BALLPITS, MINORS ALLOWED IN 18+ CONVENTIONS, CELEBRITY APPEARANCES THAT MAKE NO ****ING SENSE FOR A MLP CONVENTION! I'm not saying you're not allowed to have an opinion but...really? You actually used those words in a sentence the way you did?

I mean yeah I'm not sure how you say previous attempts at motion control were better than the WIi's but please work to disagree with people without yelling at them and all-but directly insulting them. You typically have a lot more success in debates if you can do it civilly anyway. Tone it down a bit.

(Also off-topic FYI, DashCon was a Tumblr convention, not a MLP convention. And I don't know that very many things have ever been pulled off worse than it was.)

 

[Booster]

I mean yeah I'm not sure how you say previous attempts at motion control were better than the WIi's but please work to disagree with people without yelling at them and all-but directly insulting them. You typically have a lot more success in debates if you can do it civilly anyway. Tone it down a bit.

(Also off-topic FYI, DashCon was a Tumblr convention, not a MLP convention. And I don't know that very many things have ever been pulled off worse than it was.)

Attempts even after Wii have mostly been fail. Playstation Move. More powerful then Wiimotion Plus, has no games and I mean no games. Name one game exclusive to Playstation Plus that doesn't have Dualshock 3 Options that was any good.

Oh and Kinect, Kinect 2.0 and the other Playstation Eye.

Anyways I'm trying to become a more pleasant person, but when I see something that's painful like that...I have work I need to do

 

[JusticeColde]

Well, one reason to have a "gimmick" is to stand out from the crowd in some way because they would be selling just another system.

And the reason that the Wii U hasn't sold much is a combination of early neglect, naming and most of all, advertising. People are forgetting the golden rule of success in making products.
Let me ask y'all some questions. Why did people buy into the scam that was Miss Cleo? Why do so many people drink Bud Light if it's universally agreed that it tastes bad? How did Freecreditreport.com become popular?
Advertising! The most powerful tool in business that Nintendo and 3rd parties have failed to use.

 

[Firus]

Attempts even after Wii have mostly been fail. Playstation Move. More powerful then Wiimotion Plus, has no games and I mean no games. Name one game exclusive to Playstation Plus that doesn't have Dualshock 3 Options that was any good.

Oh and Kinect, Kinect 2.0 and the other Playstation Eye.

Anyways I'm trying to become a more pleasant person, but when I see something that's painful like that...I have work I need to do

I wasn't actually saying that recent attempts have been better than the Wii, I just didn't clarify that they have been because the topic of discussion was pre-Wii motion control. Yes, post-Wii motion control has pretty much all been trying to follow the craze the Wii started, and that sort of thing rarely ends up as good as the original.

And I understand how it is when somebody says something that you disagree with strongly but that still doesn't necessitate caps and swearing.

 

[LancerStaff]

The Wii U is doing badly because it's not casual enough. Even the PS4 and X1 are more casual then the Wii U at this point.

 

[IanTheGamer]

The focus on causal gamers hurt Nintendo in the long term, they abandoned a steady source of revenue, their hardcore fans, for a risky market, that when the next "Flavor of the month", came out they abandoned Nintendo

 

[Ganreizu]

The Gamepad is actually something I would consider a good innovation that was implemented too soon. The main problem is that it's too expensive at the moment to implement multiple gamepad functionality, since it currently adds about $100-120 to the price tag, when they probably should've waited until the price fell to around $70-80, so that it would be feasible for people to buy a second one. At any rate, the Gamepad is nowhere near the Wii U's biggest problem. The Wii U has struggled mainly due to poor advertising and a lack of games early in its lifespan, which is the reason why its install base is still so low and why it's missing out on ports that the PS3/360 are still getting. The Gamepad also isn't the reason the Wii U is underpowered, it's the fact that developing for a console as powerful as the PS4/XBOne is very expensive, and would make pretty much any console game that isn't Mario/Zelda/Smash unprofitable, and Nintendo isn't willing to shoulder those costs for what are generally marginal improvements in game quality. Honestly, the Wii U would've been much better off if Nintendo simply prepared properly for the transition to HD and brought out all of its games about 6 months sooner than it did.

Honestly i think all of those things are reasons the wii u will perform far better as a console from now until the end of it's lifespan. Because nintendo jumped the gun, they wouldn't have experienced the losses that decision caused, and thus they wouldn't have had the motivation to push out their AAA titles with a more hardcore gamer target focus.

I don't know what the numbers look like for console wars and whatnot, but i wouldn't doubt nintendo would be on the upswing after this year, or at least after they get through with pushing out all the stuff they covered in E3. Their competition isn't really looking as hot as nintendo, although sony does have destiny which looks pretty awesome and they still have KH3.

 

[LancerStaff]

The focus on causal gamers hurt Nintendo in the long term, they abandoned a steady source of revenue, their hardcore fans, for a risky market, that when the next "Flavor of the month", came out they abandoned Nintendo

Lol, hardcores were never a steady flow of income. The most casual system wins. PS2 over GC, for example.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Lol, hardcores were never a steady flow of income. The most casual system wins. PS2 over GC, for example.

PS2 had games for everyone, it wasn't specifically casually oriented, many core gamers owned a PS2, which had games like God of War, MGS, the GTA series, Madden, Resident Evil, GT4, DMC, Burnout, and Jax and Daxter, don't troll us

 

[LancerStaff]

PS2 had games for everyone, it wasn't specifically casually oriented, many core gamers owned a PS2, which had games like God of War, MGS, the GTA series, Madden, Resident Evil, GT4, DMC, Burnout, and Jax and Daxter, don't troll us

It was advertised as a DVD player.

 

[IanTheGamer]

It was advertised as a DVD player.

It was advertised as a system that was BOTH a DVD player and a game console, get your facts straight, your lucky I don't report you for trolling

 

[LancerStaff]

It was advertised as both a DVD player and a game console, therefore your claim is voided, you are very lucky I haven't reported you for trolling

So there's some super hardcore use for the DVD player, or am I just not understanding?

Really now, what purpose was there to make it play DVDs besides to lure in the casual audience?

 

[IanTheGamer]

So there's some super hardcore use for the DVD player, or am I just not understanding?

Really now, what purpose was there to make it play DVDs besides to lure in the casual audience?

Dude will you just shut up already

 

[LancerStaff]

Dude will you just shut up already

Me shutting up won't change anything. To win the console wars, you must go for the casuals.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Why don't we not

 

[finalark]

The level of butthurt in this thread is unbelievable.

 

[IanTheGamer]

The level of butthurt in this thread is unbelievable.

Yeah that guy was being a troll, I did what I had to do

 

[Firus]

Yeah that guy was being a troll, I did what I had to do

Someone disagreeing with you does not equal them being a troll. In this case there was heavy sarcasm, yes, but trolling, no. Responding to disagreements with threats (serious or not) is not okay. I don't even care if they were being a troll, you should report it and leave it.