why do people think zzs is so good?

[ep1c_marf]

im dont understand why so many people think she top 5. Her neutral b is pretty good i suppose but he d throw combos don't work at higher percent she has no really good kill options. idk can some please just explain to me why she's so good lol

 

[Red5_snt]

I'll give you two reasons...

 

[ep1c_marf]

ok

I'll give you two reasons...

ok?

 

[David Viran]

Well she has more kill options than you think. Her Bair kills well but is hard to land on the 3ds. Her up special kills reliably to. Forward Smash has kill potential also. And at higher percents if you land dsmash or a neutral b, mostly down Smash, that is almost a guaranteed kill as they are both safe on shield if used properly. Her up air juggles hard and can kill at higher percents. Down throw at higher percents can snag a kill if you bait an air Dodge. Up Smash is a good anti air as it has a giant hitbox and can kill at higher percents. Forward air can gimp people trying to recover. Down special can kill really well to but excells at mixups

 

[16bit]

Well she has more kill options than you think. Her Bair kills well but is hard to land on the 3ds. Her up special kills reliably to. Forward Smash has kill potential also. And at higher percents if you land dsmash or a neutral b, mostly down Smash, that is almost a guaranteed kill as they are both safe on shield if used properly. Her up air juggles hard and can kill at higher percents. Down throw at higher percents can snag a kill if you bait an air Dodge. Up Smash is a good anti air as it has a giant hitbox and can kill at higher percents. Forward air can gimp people trying to recover. Down special can kill really well to but excells at mixups

Almost everything he says is what is great about ZSS, plus the fact that Side B can be used as a recovery, to have 2 different recoveries to use for different locations. She also has enough speed to space herself out easily, which is always nice.

 

[Freezie KO]

im dont understand why so many people think she top 5. Her neutral b is pretty good i suppose but he d throw combos don't work at higher percent she has no really good kill options. idk can some please just explain to me why she's so good lol

She can be camped easily with projectiles, but against characters that actually has to fight her, she's a beast. She has great range with the whip, both grab and attack. She's incredibly fast and has many natural combos. So she can out range and out prioritize a lot of characters, but then she has to make bad approaches on others.

 

[David Viran]

She can be camped easily with projectiles, but against characters that actually has to fight her, she's a beast. She has great range with the whip, both grab and attack. She's incredibly fast and has many natural combos. So she can out range and out prioritize a lot of characters, but then she has to make bad approaches on others.

From what I've seen projectile campers don't easily keep her out because of her mobility and down special. Once she gets in she can usually win mid to close range.

 

[Los4Muros]

And the meteor. D Special can be used as a meteor if you're in the air. It's so easy to hit and if you miss, with her great recovery you can quickly get back on the stage. She's fast, her moves have few lags and some are hard to punish. Great mobility in the air as well as in the ground. And if it weren't enough, now she has Samus's Zair which is great for spacing (don't know why you'd want to space with Zero Suit Samus, but hey, it's good to have an option.

She's OP, that's for sure.

 

[David Viran]

And the meteor. D Special can be used as a meteor if you're in the air. It's so easy to hit and if you miss, with her great recovery you can quickly get back on the stage. She's fast, her moves have few lags and some are hard to punish. Great mobility in the air as well as in the ground. And if it weren't enough, now she has Samus's Zair which is great for spacing (don't know why you'd want to space with Zero Suit Samus, but hey, it's good to have an option.

She's OP, that's for sure.

Zoning is what she is best at aside from punishing. Her punish game is very strong probably one of the best in the game.

 

[Los4Muros]

Zoning is what she is best at aside from punishing. Her punish game is very strong probably one of the best in the game.

I just hope they don't change her in future updates. Don't make her worse, make the rest better. Samus (with suit) needs a lot of fixing to be done.

 

[DeLux]

For multiple reasons, I think she reminds me of Marth of Brawl.

I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of the day she's extremely busted, but the margin for error being extremely slim leaving there few excellent ZSS players.

 

[Remzi]

For multiple reasons, I think she reminds me of Marth of Brawl.

I wouldn't be surprised if at the end of the day she's extremely busted, but the margin for error being extremely slim leaving there few excellent ZSS players.

As a Marth main in Brawl and a ZSS main in Sm4sh, I don't think the two could play any more different.

 

[InfinityZERO]

Well she has more kill options than you think. Her Bair kills well but is hard to land on the 3ds. Her up special kills reliably to. Forward Smash has kill potential also. And at higher percents if you land dsmash or a neutral b, mostly down Smash, that is almost a guaranteed kill as they are both safe on shield if used properly. Her up air juggles hard and can kill at higher percents. Down throw at higher percents can snag a kill if you bait an air Dodge. Up Smash is a good anti air as it has a giant hitbox and can kill at higher percents. Forward air can gimp people trying to recover. Down special can kill really well to but excells at mixups

The Up Special doesn't kill reliably. There is an actual topic about how finnicky it is to hit with the knockback of the move. Specifically all the multi-hit will hit, but the final hit misses.

 

[David Viran]

The Up Special doesn't kill reliably. There is an actual topic about how finnicky it is to hit with the knockback of the move. Specifically all the multi-hit will hit, but the final hit misses.

In that topic it was concluded that the you can get the last hit even if they vectored. You have some control of the move like for instance if your opponent tries to vector away then if you hold up then you will get him anyway. It is a mixup on hit.

 

[InfinityZERO]

In that topic it was concluded that the you can get the last hit even if they vectored. You have some control of the move like for instance if your opponent tries to vector away then if you hold up then you will get him anyway. It is a mixup on hit.

But the topic started because of how unreliable UpB is. You have some control over the move isn't the exact same thing as being reliable. You've got a toss-up whether UpB will kill.

 

[David Viran]

But the topic started because of how unreliable UpB is. You have some control over the move isn't the exact same thing as being reliable. You've got a toss-up whether UpB will kill.

You're right that it's not completely reliable but I was trying to say that the move is still in our favor when we hit it because the opponent has about 2 options to vector up and away or vector inward but if they miss the vector at all then it's just about guaranteed if you hit the move properly.

 

[FierceFox]

She's definitely overhyped. She's not even top 10. People just remember her powers from Brawl I suppose.

Either way, when the actual tier lists come out she won't be top 5. Not a chance unless a bunch of nerfs (of others) occur.

Edit -- Seems like several peeps in this topic defending ZSS are obviously homers. She's an average character. She doesn't have a great punish game compared to most (not even close). Punish with her? Lol, that's what? A down-b or d-smash to f-smash? That's no auto-KO. Lil Mac, Jiggs, Wario, 3D, etc. (list could go on for tens of characters), that have better punish games.

FLAWS:
1) vulnerable grab (sure range, but so punishable)
2) tough to land any KO moves (sure, lot of options, but landing them? good luck)
3) d-smash is poor compared to most characters
4) side-b can be overpowered by most projectiles and strong attacks
5) up-b rarely land and leaves you susceptible to easy punish
6) small hitboxes (especially aerials)

Shall I go on? Sure, she has an awesome recovery game. But who besides Mac doesn't have an awesome recovery game?

 

[David Viran]

She's definitely overhyped. She's not even top 10. People just remember her powers from Brawl I suppose.

Either way, when the actual tier lists come out she won't be top 5. Not a chance unless a bunch of nerfs (of others) occur.

Edit -- Seems like several peeps in this topic defending ZSS are obviously homers. She's an average character. She doesn't have a great punish game compared to most (not even close). Punish with her? Lol, that's what? A down-b or d-smash to f-smash? That's no auto-KO. Lil Mac, Jiggs, Wario, 3D, etc. (list could go on for tens of characters), that have better punish games.

FLAWS:
1) vulnerable grab (sure range, but so punishable)
2) tough to land any KO moves (sure, lot of options, but landing them? good luck)
3) d-smash is poor compared to most characters
4) side-b can be overpowered by most projectiles and strong attacks
5) up-b rarely land and leaves you susceptible to easy punish
6) small hitboxes (especially aerials)

Shall I go on? Sure, she has an awesome recovery game. But who besides Mac doesn't have an awesome recovery game?

That's a pretty bold statement there. Nobody knows how the game or characters are going to turn out so don't start stating stuff, like tier lists, like a fact. Zss's punish game is definitly on par with everyone. Dsmash doesnt just go into Fsmash, it goes into every one of her kill moves including up special. It's also safe on block and can pressure on the ledge very well. Down smash isn't the only reason why her punish game is good she excelent at juggling, one of her best spacing tools combos into fair (nair). Up tilt comes out super fast, hits on both sides, and puts them right above you, to juggle, of course it has some cool down though but should be used mostly for quick punishes.

Her grab is punishable but that means you have to be smart with it and don't get predictable. Having alot of options for kill moves means that your oppenent will be avoiding about 6 moves and try not to not get by them. I actually disagree on side-b it's not overpowered you really need to know when to use it as it can be punished. A good Zss player will never use up special unless it will hit. I don't know about that last flaw her aierals have a small vertical hitbox but a long horizontal hitbox accept uair which is just big. This makes you have to be precise, nothing a little practice can't fix or gamecube remote. But hey I guess you can think however you want to. I'm not going to say your wrong about everything I just don't agree with you on some stuff.

 

[David Viran]

That's a pretty bold statement there. Nobody knows how the game or characters are going to turn out so don't start stating stuff, like tier lists, like a fact. Zss's punish game is definitly on par with everyone. Dsmash doesnt just go into Fsmash, it goes into every one of her kill moves including up special. It's also safe on block and can pressure on the ledge very well. Down smash isn't the only reason why her punish game is good she's excelent at juggling, one of her best spacing tools combos into fair (nair). Up tilt comes out super fast, hits on both sides, and puts them right above you, to juggle, of course it has some cool down though but should be used mostly for quick punishes.

Her grab is punishable but that means you have to be smart with it and don't get predictable. Having alot of options for kill moves means that your oppenent will be avoiding about 6 moves and try not to not get by them. I actually disagree on side-b it's not overpowered you really need to know when to use it as it can be punished. A good Zss player will never use up special unless it will hit. I don't know about that last flaw her aierals have a small vertical hitbox but a long horizontal hitbox accept uair which is just big. This makes you have to be precise, nothing a little practice can't fix or gamecube remote. But hey I guess you can think however you want to. I'm not going to say your wrong about everything I just don't agree with you on some stuff.

 

[David Viran]

whoops, sorry accidently replyed to myself.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

She's definitely overhyped. She's not even top 10. People just remember her powers from Brawl I suppose.

Either way, when the actual tier lists come out she won't be top 5. Not a chance unless a bunch of nerfs (of others) occur.

Edit -- Seems like several peeps in this topic defending ZSS are obviously homers. She's an average character. She doesn't have a great punish game compared to most (not even close). Punish with her? Lol, that's what? A down-b or d-smash to f-smash? That's no auto-KO. Lil Mac, Jiggs, Wario, 3D, etc. (list could go on for tens of characters), that have better punish games.

FLAWS:
1) vulnerable grab (sure range, but so punishable)
2) tough to land any KO moves (sure, lot of options, but landing them? good luck)
3) d-smash is poor compared to most characters
4) side-b can be overpowered by most projectiles and strong attacks
5) up-b rarely land and leaves you susceptible to easy punish
6) small hitboxes (especially aerials)

Shall I go on? Sure, she has an awesome recovery game. But who besides Mac doesn't have an awesome recovery game?

Her neutral b alone makes her top 10.

 

[kyxsune]

She is essentially sheik with a shorter range and more KO power. That's why.

 

[FierceFox]

Lol, apologize if my previous comment came off as jerk-ish. I was just irked by the fact that many were listing out positives without some of the negatives. For example, her grab does have great range, but if you miss with the grab, it's extremely punishable (to the fact of don't use it above 120% cause you will get KO'd by great players). Overall, I'd say that makes her grab a con more than a pro (but debatable).

I just wanted to be the voice from the opposite side of the spectrum (as I think top 3 is a bit too high for ZSS as much as I enjoy her). I main D3, Sonic, and ZSS. Think they are all great, viable characters, but not a chance I'd put ZSS above Sonic (maybe above D3 as he can become very readable). I admit, ZSS does have TONS of mixups and takes a lot more skill than other players (making her possibly seem bad in FG mode as most can't use her correctly). Still a GREAT player, regardless of my previous rant (but top 3? don't know if that's warranted).

Also, I just use that silly eventhubs tier list. Just google Smash 4 tier list to see it. I know it's not accurate whatsoever, but it's at least something to look at.

Edit -- if we can ever break the code of how to consistently land up-b to get that final hit then I could see her in top 5-ish. keep in my all this stuff is just my opinion, lol, so no need to fret over it, i'm prolly wrong often hah

 

[David Viran]

Lol, apologize if my previous comment came off as jerk-ish. I was just irked by the fact that many were listing out positives without some of the negatives. For example, her grab does have great range, but if you miss with the grab, it's extremely punishable (to the fact of don't use it above 120% cause you will get KO'd by great players). Overall, I'd say that makes her grab a con more than a pro (but debatable).

I just wanted to be the voice from the opposite side of the spectrum (as I think top 3 is a bit too high for ZSS as much as I enjoy her). I main D3, Sonic, and ZSS. Think they are all great, viable characters, but not a chance I'd put ZSS above Sonic (maybe above D3 as he can become very readable). I admit, ZSS does have TONS of mixups and takes a lot more skill than other players (making her possibly seem bad in FG mode as most can't use her correctly). Still a GREAT player, regardless of my previous rant (but top 3? don't know if that's warranted).

Also, I just use that silly eventhubs tier list. Just google Smash 4 tier list to see it. I know it's not accurate whatsoever, but it's at least something to look at.

Edit -- if we can ever break the code of how to consistently land up-b to get that final hit then I could see her in top 5-ish. keep in my all this stuff is just my opinion, lol, so no need to fret over it, i'm prolly wrong often hah

Their is a forum where we found out how to land up special more consistently you should check it out if you haven't already. Thank you for your kindness as you are right that their are cons to her as their are for every character.

 

[Daxter]

I sincerely hope she's either top tier or overpowered, because I've yet to win a match against her. She's too fast, too many of her moves can kill, and too many of her moves are perfectly safe. I've been trying to stop her as Mario, but she just dodges or outprioritises everything.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I sincerely hope she's either top tier or overpowered, because I've yet to win a match against her. She's too fast, too many of her moves can kill, and too many of her moves are perfectly safe. I've been trying to stop her as Mario, but she just dodges or outprioritises everything.

You should play against me some time then because I suck hard.

 

[Fools Requiem]

I haven't played long and haven't unlocked anyone other than Falco (who is slow as crap for some reason). I've had a chance to play all of the unlocked characters, and I can already tell that ZSS is really good. Every move seems to have more power, less lag, and she still retains her speed. Only thing I'd worry about is maybe her recovery because the tether recovery is gone, but I think I'd just need to make better use of D-Special.

It's possible she might be the best in the game.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I haven't played long and haven't unlocked anyone other than Falco (who is slow as crap for some reason). I've had a chance to play all of the unlocked characters, and I can already tell that ZSS is really good. Every move seems to have more power, less lag, and she still retains her speed. Only thing I'd worry about is maybe her recovery because the tether recovery is gone, but I think I'd just need to make better use of D-Special.

It's possible she might be the best in the game.

Her tether recovery is gone? What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Fools Requiem]

Her tether recovery is gone? What the hell are you talking about?

I meant the Up B tether. Forgot about the Grab animation tether. That's my bad.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I meant the Up B tether. Forgot about the Grab animation tether. That's my bad.

Aaah, that makes more sense
I personally much prefer her new up b, mainly because it can kill pretty early and can be grab combo'd into consistently on bigger characters. Also as long as she doesn't fall to low she really has no problem recovering at all.
I think she could be top 5 after the 1.0.4 changes but best is still a stretch.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

I've taken up playing ZSS as my second main (After Link) and really enjoy her. I had issues with her at first and kinda complained about the lack of power/kill moves.. but the more I've played, as others have said, she has a lot more kill moves - it's just harder to land them. She's incredible fun to play though. I'm guessing her speed + stun + variety of moves may be the reason people are casting her up in tier.

 

[extremechiton]

her up b can be di out of pretty easily, all you have to do hold up and back towards zss, with her new side b, she loses a viable kill option. most of my ko come from a down b read or if i stun them. other kos come from d throw to up air combos,
f smash rarely connects. and sometimes up smash gets the ko.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

her up b can be di out of pretty easily, all you have to do hold up and back towards zss,

That's simply not true. All you need to do is press into the same direction as the target tries to DI and it will connect.

 

[KingBroly]

I think ZSS just plays really smoothly. What do I mean? All fighters have a few characters that are very stiff and hard to get good with. ZSS is like Cammy in SF4. VERY easy to pickup and do decently. But if you want to be good, you have to know what you're doing. You have to be precise, not make mistakes and know matchups as well as stages and how those co-exist.

I think ZSS might be...slightly overrated in Smash 3DS/U at the moment, but it's still early. She's still upper tier minimum as she's pretty easy to be a royal pain even if you know how to play against her. It's also very easy to change tactics since she has so much, making fighting a good one a trying experience.