Smash 3DS Why do people hate the 3DS Smash Bros. so much?!?!

[Renji64]

Smash has been a console game this game will be held back thanks to 3ds.

 

[BaPr]

Again, how badly is it going to be held back? Please enlighten me.

 

[ryuu seika]

The Wii U disc has 25 GB available per layer. The 3DS has 8 GB per cartridge, but I heard that Nintendo is limiting games to 2 GB.

As you say, outdated source. The launch games were limited to 2GB, with the idea that the capacity would slowly ramp up as time went on.
As such, this is no reason to hold anything back for an SSB game. Especially not one released so late on in the 3DS' life.

With all that space, the Wii U could have an awesome, expansive story mode, or more characters, or more stages. But they want to keep the versions as similar as possible, so the 3DS

will definitely hold it back in that way.

Sakurai wanted less characters than Brawl to be in this game anyway and the 3DS could easily handle the Brawl roster. Hell, it could take a full port of Brawl with its overly space intensive story mode and everything if they wanted it to. The 3DS will not limit the character roster in terms of quantity and, while it is possible that characters like the ICs and Olimar might be an issue for it, I highly doubt Sakurai would have said he wants more such characters in this game if he didn't think he could deliver them.
In short, it will not hold back the character roster.

Now lets look at stages. Has Sakurai actually said the number of stages will be similar? If so, lets refer to Brawl again. How may stages does Brawl have? 41. Now, how many of those are tournament legal? See my point? SSB 3DS could easily handle 41 stages, plus however many were needed for SSE, so we won't be losing anything there. At worst, we'll see the 3DS version have less stage gimmicks to cut down on processor usage. Since that's what a lot of this forum wants, I don't see why you'd have an issue.

Moving on to story/1p mode, Sakurai has said that the two games will be a different experience in this area so we cannot expect the 3DS and WiiU to have any influence on one another here.

The most important thing to remember, though, is that the 3DS version isn't really all that great graphically. This is the main way in which SSB WiiU will surpass it and this is how the 3DS can do most of what the WiiU version does without holding the WiiU back.

 

[Oddyesy]

As you say, outdated source. The launch games were limited to 2GB, with the idea that the capacity would slowly ramp up as time went on.
As such, this is no reason to hold anything back for an SSB game. Especially not one released so late on in the 3DS' life.



Sakurai wanted less characters than Brawl to be in this game anyway and the 3DS could easily handle the Brawl roster. Hell, it could take a full port of Brawl with its overly space intensive story mode and everything if they wanted it to. The 3DS will not limit the character roster in terms of quantity and, while it is possible that characters like the ICs and Olimar might be an issue for it, I highly doubt Sakurai would have said he wants more such characters in this game if he didn't think he could deliver them.
In short, it will not hold back the character roster.

Now lets look at stages. Has Sakurai actually said the number of stages will be similar? If so, lets refer to Brawl again. How may stages does Brawl have? 41. Now, how many of those are tournament legal? See my point? SSB 3DS could easily handle 41 stages, plus however many were needed for SSE, so we won't be losing anything there. At worst, we'll see the 3DS version have less stage gimmicks to cut down on processor usage. Since that's what a lot of this forum wants, I don't see why you'd have an issue.

Moving on to story/1p mode, Sakurai has said that the two games will be a different experience in this area so we cannot expect the 3DS and WiiU to have any influence on one another here.

The most important thing to remember, though, is that the 3DS version isn't really all that great graphically. This is the main way in which SSB WiiU will surpass it and this is how the 3DS can do most of what the WiiU version does without holding the WiiU back.

And here's the kicker.




I probably don't know what I'm talking about!

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm aware that's what you said, you were just the easiest setup for my explanation, sorry.

 

[Oddyesy]

I'm aware that's what you said, you were just the easiest setup for my explanation, sorry.

I know. Sometimes I don't come up with the best arguments.

 

[Oddyesy]

Smash has been a console game this game will be held back thanks to 3ds.

Quite the ray of sunshine we have here.

 

[ryuu seika]

It's hardly your fault in this instance though. Everybody is saying the same things over and over and refusing to listen to reason, you just put everything in one nice convenient place for me to quote .

 

[Oddyesy]

It's hardly your fault in this instance though. Everybody is saying the same things over and over and refusing to listen to reason, you just put everything in one nice convenient place for me to quote .

That's a nice accomplishment, I guess.

I can see it now. "Oddyesy, the one that doesn't listen to reason, and uses bad arguments so that people can quote him and call him out."

 

[Claire Diviner]

We can't ignore the possibility for DLC in the future. Sakurai did say that he's not focused on any possible DLC, as he wants the game's initial release to be as complete as possible (unlike Capcom). Still, we can't completely forgo the DLC scenario since it's been proven that the 3DS can handle DLC (Theatrhythm Final Fantasy comes to mind). Just something to think about.

Also, the 3DS won't hold the game back content-wise. Roster-wise maybe, but assuming it does hold the Wii U version back from having a large roster, there will still be a crap ton (and I do mean a CRAP TON) of space left on the disc for other features, including a better replay system, better stage builder options, a better adventure mode, more online options, etc. etc. etc..

 

[mimgrim]

Sakurai wanted less characters than Brawl to be in this game anyway and the 3DS could easily handle the Brawl roster.

Where has Sakurai stated that he wants less characters in this game? I don't recall reading an interview where he said something like that.

We can't ignore the possibility for DLC in the future. Sakurai did say that he's not focused on any possible DLC, as he wants the game's initial release to be as complete as possible (unlike Capcom). Still, we can't completely forgo the DLC scenario since it's been proven that the 3DS can handle DLC (Theatrhythm Final Fantasy comes to mind). Just something to think about.

Also, the 3DS won't hold the game back content-wise. Roster-wise maybe, but assuming it does hold the Wii U version back from having a large roster, there will still be a crap ton (and I do mean a CRAP TON) of space left on the disc for other features, including a better replay system, better stage builder options, a better adventure mode, more online options, etc. etc. etc..

The 3DS will not hold back roster size. This has been gone over already. The 3DS is capable of holding everything Brawl has in it and then some. Now get rid of SSE in Brawl and do better compression and you don't have nearly as many GBs that Brawl had. And that interview you sourced earlier. That was the person conducting the interview speculating/paraphrasing/pulling words out of his ass as Sakurai did not say that himself. Sakurai has said there might be limitations but not what they are exactly, and again in the inteview you sourced Sakurai did not say that himself that was totally the interviewer who speculated that.

 

[Claire Diviner]

The 3DS will not hold back roster size. This has been gone over already. The 3DS is capable of holding everything Brawl has in it and then some. Now get rid of SSE in Brawl and do better compression and you don't have nearly as many GBs that Brawl had. And that interview you sourced earlier. That was the person conducting the interview speculating/paraphrasing/pulling words out of his *** as Sakurai did not say that himself. Sakurai has said there might be limitations but not what they are exactly, and again in the inteview you sourced Sakurai did not say that himself that was totally the interviewer who speculated that.

I guess when I use words like "maybe" and "assuming", that doesn't count as implying what-if scenarios anymore. I must've been out of the loop for how words are used nowadays.

 

[Mo433]

People are taking this character thing way out of context. The 3DS will be able to handle more characters than Brawl did. Whether that happens is completely up to Sakurai. And you guys have to consider, some things that took up a lot of space in Brawl won't even be returning, such as Masterpieces and the SSE.

 

[low tier user]

Many standard fighting games have 45)50 characters, so there should be no problem balancing a roster that size. Well if he's any good, that is.

 

[low tier user]

I guess when I use words like "maybe" and "assuming", that doesn't count as implying what-if scenarios anymore. I must've been out of the loop for how words are used nowadays.
I guess so huh?

 

[ryuu seika]

Where has Sakurai stated that he wants less characters in this game? I don't recall reading an interview where he said something like that.

It was said some time before SSB4 was announced, back when the idea of a fourth instalment was just beginning to become a real likelihood and back when this place looked very different indeed. Forgive me but I do not have sources from years ago, all I know is what was said then.
I don't believe he actually said a future instalment would have less as such but there was definitely talk of Brawl feeling "overcrowded" and the like.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Many standard fighting games have 45)50 characters, so there should be no problem balancing a roster that size. Well if he's any good, that is.

I don't think that will be a problem, given that Namco-Bandai will be handling balancing as opposed to the previous games, where it was entirely Sakurai.

 

[RavenKingSage]

People who whine about the 3DS version really need to suck it up. So fans won't get the 55-60 characters they hoped for. Big deal. The Wii U version will most likely live up to its potential in terms of modes, gameplay, and other content. Hate against the 3DS version is completely unjustified. And frankly, who here hasn't wanted to play Super Smash Bros. on a handheld?

 

[smashmachine]

55-60 characters was never realistic
and just wait until the 3ds version massively outsells the wii u version, too

 

[RavenKingSage]

55-60 characters was never realistic
and just wait until the 3ds version massively outsells the wii u version, too

You'd be surprised how many people thought that would happen. I don't know about anyone here, but on sites with less-than-intelligent users like Facebook and YouTube, it's a different story. If not for Sakurai's comment about less newcomers than expected and the new awareness of the 3DS's limitations, people on Miiverse would be expected 55-60. (Some of the Miiverse users in the Smash community... ugh.)

 

[Curious Villager]

You'd be surprised how many people thought that would happen. I don't know about anyone here, but on sites with less-than-intelligent users like Facebook and YouTube, it's a different story. If not for Sakurai's comment about less newcomers than expected and the new awareness of the 3DS's limitations, people on Miiverse would be expected 55-60. (Some of the Miiverse users in the Smash community... ugh.)

I remember during the pre-Brawl days when people expected twice (or even thrice by some crazy folk) as many characters than what we actually ended up with in Brawl. At least people have become a little more realistic in terms of expectations but yeah, expecting more than 50 could still likely lead to disappointment so we are better off expecting at least a number between 40 to 48. Around 50 IF we are lucky.... Of course including transformations.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Man now we're all gonna have to buy HD 3D TVs if we wanna take advantage of 3D
on the Wii U! This is bulls$#@!

 

[nat pagle]

55-60 characters was never realistic
and just wait until the 3ds version massively outsells the wii u version, too

Melee was hurt by far the most by having a roster that was too large, clone move-sets being the most glaring symptom of the oversized roster. With of course, a possible dash of rushed development being a factor also considering Melee was released just two weeks after the GC's launch.

I think Sakurai got the character count right in Brawl. It was a large and more diverse roster without as much of the clone movesets being present. Players got the characters they wanted and Sakurai was able to put more effort and time into making a more desirable state of gameplay. People have to realize Sakurai is making two separate Smash games in roughly the same amount, or just over the amount of time post release of Wii that he had to make Brawl. Having a large roster sounds nice, but that would put more pressure on Sakurai to finish balancing and finish the rest of both of the games. Which would probably end up causing missteps like with Melee's clone characters.

As for sales, I think 3DS is going to take it home. Brawl did not sell as well as the big name Mario titles like Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros, etc. and Melee was a special case because it was a near launch title. So, I would think similar sales figures will come out for Smash Wii U. Furthermore, it's just a simple fact that more people have the 3DS than the Wii U. So, it'd only be natural for more people to go ahead and pick up Smash for 3DS. And Wii U is definitely going to have to push out the titles if they want to survive when Xbox One and PS4 are both launched. Because you have to remember, the Wii was released after the 360 and the same time as the PS3 but was able to sell. The stakes are almost reversed this time as the PS4 is just now coming out, has the price advantage over Xbox, has much better hardware, and has a top notch online service.

Finally, I don't think the 3DS version will be too bad. Sure, the graphics aren't amazing and it has some limitations, but I trust Sakurai can make it happen. Although, online play is probably going to be a bigger selling point for the 3DS. Since it's handheld and a largely multiplayer game in nature, Sakurai has to make sure that the servers aren't utter crap like Brawl's were. But, a lot of people knock it for requiring 4 different systems and possibly 4 different catridges. I really don't agree with that. There have been 30+ million 3DS's sold, and it's somewhat similar to the DS's numbers. A lot of people have their own 3DS, so I think that won't be as big as an issue as people like to write it down. Not forgetting of course, there's a limit to how many controllers someone has at their house XD.

Unfortunately, I don't think the competitive scene will thrive for the 3DS. Wii U has the better controller for smash, better graphics, and will probably outshine 3DS in most ways. Although, I would still suggest for competitive players to pick up the 3DS version anyways.


Sorry about my rambling, it's just an interesting topic IMO.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Check that 3DS game card:

I expected less than 8GB

 

[Claire Diviner]

Melee was hurt by far the most by having a roster that was too large, clone move-sets being the most glaring symptom of the oversized roster. With of course, a possible dash of rushed development being a factor also considering Melee was released just two weeks after the GC's launch.

I think Sakurai got the character count right in Brawl. It was a large and more diverse roster without as much of the clone movesets being present. Players got the characters they wanted and Sakurai was able to put more effort and time into making a more desirable state of gameplay. People have to realize Sakurai is making two separate Smash games in roughly the same amount, or just over the amount of time post release of Wii that he had to make Brawl. Having a large roster sounds nice, but that would put more pressure on Sakurai to finish balancing and finish the rest of both of the games. Which would probably end up causing missteps like with Melee's clone characters.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the one thing we need to remember is that unlike previous installments, Smash 4 will be developed by both Sora and Namco-Bandai, so it would stand to reason that the time needed, and the pressure of developing the game with a large roster shouldn't be anywhere near as big of an issue as it was with Melee, wouldn't one think so?

 

[nat pagle]

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but the one thing we need to remember is that unlike previous installments, Smash 4 will be developed by both Sora and Namco-Bandai, so it would stand to reason that the time needed, and the pressure of developing the game with a large roster shouldn't be anywhere near as big of an issue as it was with Melee, wouldn't one think so?

I agree with you, it would not be anywhere near as big of an issue than with Melee. Though, with Smash's unique fighting style and the presence of two completely distinct titles, I just can't see Sakurai making a marginally larger roster. Even with Namco-Bandai's help, it would seem far fetched to have a 55 man roster due to balancing and developing on two platforms.

 

[BaPr]

So, if the character roster isn't going to be held back because of the 3DS, but because of what Sakurai wants, is there anything that is getting held back at all?

 

[nat pagle]

So, if the character roster isn't going to be held back because of the 3DS, but because of what Sakurai wants, is there anything that is getting held back at all?

That's hard to say, we don't know what Sakurai would have done if he were just developing on one platform instead of 3DS and Wii U.

 

[BaPr]

That's hard to say, we don't know what Sakurai would have done if he were just developing on one platform instead of 3DS and Wii U.

That is true, I just hopes he goes all out on both of them. Since the 3DS is going to be one player only, I think it would make sense to give it a really good online play, but not saying that the Wii U shouldn't. I just think that the Wii U is gonna be more of a competitive game offline, where we could do online tournaments for the 3DS. THE HATE COMMENTS SHALL NOW COMMENCE.

 

[Pyra]

Smash has been a console game this game will be held back thanks to 3ds.

I don't understand why this is an issue.

If it's the 3DS's game card's memory space, no need to worry. As many others have said, the space goes up to 8GB. According to this thread, Brawl's filesize was 7.92GB. You could fit Brawl on a 3DS card. HOWEVER, if I remember correctly, most of Brawl's size was comprised of the SSE and one other mode, I forget. Don't quote me on that. Someone should verify that for me. If I'm right, though, that should mean space is not an issue at all, really. I think it's perfectly plausible for them to leave a large "Story Mode" out of the 3DS version, but even if they didn't, it doesn't seem like much of an issue.

In terms of processing power and graphics...

• 3DS GPU > Wii GPU. The 3DS uses a PICA200 GPU clocked at 268MHz and the Wii has a 243MHz ATI Hollywood GPU (Clock speed not officially announced, apparently).
• Obviously, 3DS GPU < WiiU GPU. That's to be expected. Handheld vs. system that is boasted to have "HD Graphics". However, all this means is that (as we all already know) graphics will be toned down a bit for the 3DS version. The game is not held back by this.
• 3DS CPU > Wii CPU. The 3DS processor is a dual core processor clocked at 268 MHz "& 2x VFP Co-Processor". Wii has a "729MHz PowerPC-based "Broadway" processor made with a 90nm SOI CMOS process, jointly developed with and manufactured by IBM." I believe the 3DS wins out on this one, but correct me if I'm wrong.
• Obviously the WiiU CPU beats the 3DS CPU. Doesn't mean the game is going to be held back by it. I honestly think that the 3DS has enough processing power to do whatever it is (within a reasonable margin) that they throw at it .

Sources: Wii, 3DS, WiiU
My reason for comparing the 3DS to the Wii is just for the fact that Brawl is an okay reference point to make, in my opinion. My point is that they can make a Smash Brothers game without being held back on the 3DS, considering it would theoretically be easy for the 3DS to run Brawl and then some. That being said, I don't think they'll hold back toomuch on the roster, which will be the same on both systems. In other words, it won't bottleneck one of the most important things "linking" the games (in that they have to be the same), and thus won't limit Smash. Stages are not an issue, the systems will have different stages for the most part (I'm assuming that's not including Battlefield and Final Destination). The 3DS stages are probably going to be relatively simple, anyway.



If it's the usual "3DS production is going to take away from the Wii U production of the game and limit their time to do things!", I don't think that will be the case. If such an event occurs that they hit a snag that will drag on development time, they'll just delay the game a la Brawl. There's nothing wrong with that. Sakurai seems intent on getting the game right come release day, so if he needs to extend the time he has to make the game, he will probably do it. He's making a game that's a well selling series and will be making a ton of money for Nintendo, again after all.


Honestly, I can't wait to get both versions of the game. I can imagine the sales for both the Wii U and 3DS (and 3DSXL) will be boosted significantly when the games come out.

I can't see why the 3DS would limit the game as a whole.


IN ANY CASE, there's no point in trying to judge it in this manner before the game comes out. I could very well be wrong, but it's silly to "hate" the 3DS because it will "limit" the game.

 

[nat pagle]

That is true, I just hopes he goes all out on both of them. Since the 3DS is going to be one player only, I think it would make sense to give it a really good online play, but not saying that the Wii U shouldn't. I just think that the Wii U is gonna be more of a competitive game offline, where we could do online tournaments for the 3DS. THE HATE COMMENTS SHALL NOW COMMENCE.

You're completely right when it comes to the competitive offline scene. Wii U will take it hands down. As for online based 3DS tournaments, I'm somewhat hesitant to think that will take off. It definitely can be orchestrated through either forums or friends, but the online aspect won't be nearly as competitive as the offline Wii U scene. Regardless, I think 3DS online tournaments are a GREAT idea. Even if they're not as competitive in nature, it would still be a fun endeavor and competitive to a degree. Smash 64 hosts online tournaments and it's worked fairly well for it, so I would think the 3DS could be a decent medium.

As for online play and Sakurai going all out for both, I believe the online will be much better than Brawl for both games and he'll give it his all. Namco Bandai is helping out with their "dream team" of developers, games like Kid Icarus and SSF4 from what I've heard have good online quality, and Sakurai made it clear he wants to improve the online portion which no doubt will address lag to an extent. Wii U should be able to handle it and the 3DS historically is pretty good about online. In all other aspects, Sakurai has done great throughout each installment of Smash. Even in 2001 with Melee, he was able to make a great game despite releasing it two weeks after Gamecube's launch, which is just unreal to me.

 

[BaPr]

Also, I hope that they take advantage of the 3DS's 3D. In my opinion, it would be cool to have different taunts from the Wii U and 3DS. Where the 3ds does a taunt where, megaman for example, he points at you and shoots some lemons at you and it on the 3ds would look AMAZING to me. But the Wii U replaces it with some other taunt, or they could keep it the same, but it wouldn't look as cool (again, this is MY opinion).

 

[RavenKingSage]

As for sales, I think 3DS is going to take it home. Brawl did not sell as well as the big name Mario titles like Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros, etc. and Melee was a special case because it was a near launch title. So, I would think similar sales figures will come out for Smash Wii U. Furthermore, it's just a simple fact that more people have the 3DS than the Wii U. So, it'd only be natural for more people to go ahead and pick up Smash for 3DS. And Wii U is definitely going to have to push out the titles if they want to survive when Xbox One and PS4 are both launched. Because you have to remember, the Wii was released after the 360 and the same time as the PS3 but was able to sell. The stakes are almost reversed this time as the PS4 is just now coming out, has the price advantage over Xbox, has much better hardware, and has a top notch online service.

Now that you mention the Wii U vs. the PS4, the fact that the Wii U came out first may be hurtful in the long run. I'm really hoping that the upcoming games sell more Wii U consoles so more people can buy SSB for Wii U. I know Nintendo survived the 3DS fire and managed to turn it around, but I'm not sure the Wii U will see the same turnabout. I know that doesn't have anything to do with the 3DS version of Smash, but it's just something I wanted to mention because you brought up the PS4's upcoming launch and the Wii U's competition.

 

[nat pagle]

Now that you mention the Wii U vs. the PS4, the fact that the Wii U came out first may be hurtful in the long run. I'm really hoping that the upcoming games sell more Wii U consoles so more people can buy SSB for Wii U. I know Nintendo survived the 3DS fire and managed to turn it around, but I'm not sure the Wii U will see the same turnabout. I know that doesn't have anything to do with the 3DS version of Smash, but it's just something I wanted to mention because you brought up the PS4's upcoming launch and the Wii U's competition.

Luckily for Nintendo, the 3DS's competition was just limited to the Vita and smartphones. The former being very underwhelming compared to the "OMG we're going to play PS3 on a portable???" hype.

Wii U on the other hand, isn't so lucky. Even Xbone looks like it's going to be pretty popular after dropping DRM, used game, and always on restrictions. Not to mention, the Wii U by itself hasn't been doing that great without any next gen competition.

 

[RavenKingSage]

Luckily for Nintendo, the 3DS's competition was just limited to the Vita and smartphones. The former being very underwhelming compared to the "OMG we're going to play PS3 on a portable???" hype.

Wii U on the other hand, isn't so lucky. Even Xbone looks like it's going to be pretty popular after dropping DRM, used game, and always on restrictions. Not to mention, the Wii U by itself hasn't been doing that great without any next gen competition.

Great. And here I was thinking that even after the 180 degree turn, Microsoft would still be in trouble. I was predicting that it would just be Sony and Nintendo this gen before long. Reeeeally hoping that Nintendo's upcoming software turns the tide...

 

[nat pagle]

Great. And here I was thinking that even after the 180 degree turn, Microsoft would still be in trouble. I was predicting that it would just be Sony and Nintendo this gen before long. Reeeeally hoping that Nintendo's upcoming software turns the tide...

Microsoft really did shoot themselves in the foot, and they still have by requiring you to bundle Kinect. But their exclusives and the fact many people are going to buy it because their friends are will still bring in customers. Wii U will probably improve next year if it gets more great games, but they have to step it up in order to compete. PS+ is poised to be ridiculously good for an online service.

 

[ryuu seika]

PS4 sounds the best ATM but, quite frankly, I'm not excited for any next gen console.

 

[nat pagle]

I don't plan on buying a Wii U, PS4, or Xbone until 2 years after release when there's a substantial price drop.

 

[Rock_martin]

Nintendo has given its fans a look at the next installment of the 'Super Smash Bros.' franchise.

 

[nat pagle]

Nintendo has given its fans a look at the next installment of the 'Super Smash Bros.' franchise.

Yes, yes they did. Very observant.