Why are people so ashamed at admitting defeat to a level 9?

[vonfinell]

Of the overwhelming number of Brawls that I have played, I have only lost a few of the matches. Therefore, I think it's just an adaptation sort of thing. You get used to them a lot faster.

 

[GreatClayMonkey]

Because I don't and thats final...yeah i've lost to em before but I usual win like most people here

 

[Resident_Smash_Genius]

It depends on if they are using items cause Ice Climbers had me yelling out loud at the television a few nights ago. They wait for you to hit the final smash ball the first time then go in for the kill. Little fluffy-parka wearing *****.

The cpus are smarter, are not afraid to camp, sit and throw items, use projectile spam, juggle you (and omg DK is practically immune to meteor smash attacks), perfect shield, EDGE GUARD (yes that's right thet'll cling to the edge so you can't get on), they'll wait on their invinciblity if you have a final smash or spicy curry, and they never trip. Ever. Which leads me to believe it's less than random.

Frankly, as a melee pro you're flat out lying if you weren't surprised by the difficulty of a level 9.

Also, dunno if any one else noticed but if you play with 3 other cpus and try and run away, they have a tendancy to ignore eachother and just kind of follow you around the screen. Annoying.

 

[Brainiac_man]

I haven't lost to level 9s, as they are inherently dumber than humans. The thing with a level 9 is that they (although frustratingly accurate with their attacks) cannot have the kind of foresight into a strategy as a human, I usually 3-stock an average level 9 (as opposed to 1-stocking a Pikachu level 9.) I have had interesting experiences where the AI seems to drastically improve (i.e. edge-hogging, although I have spiked an edge-hogger with Wolf's recovery, that was awesome,) anyways, while I don't doubt that they are difficult and painfully precise with every movement (burn in hell Pikachu!) they can't build their own database of knowledge akin to Smash Boards, so they tend to suck in comparison to me and my friends.

 

[Supax]

Very true. Anytime one can outsmart an opponent a victory is very likely. What I should have stated better was that if one can't beat a level 9 because they don't have the skill or the knowledge of how their character works there is no way or a very slim chance that same player will defeat a human opponent that has mastered combos and skills for their player. A player that has mastered their character always beats level 9's one on one because they know how to beat a computer that can't play mind games. (When playing seriously) True anyone can win at anytime, but it's more likely that those that can beat level 9's will generally beat those that normally can't or struggle to. No one should be ashamed to lose to a level 9; but instead realize there is room for improvement.

I realize there is room for improvement when I lose to a human player, not CPUs (granted I usually don't play CPUs, and much less do I lose to them)... It is easier for me to realize what I did wrong when it's being countered consistently by a human player then a CPU... Remember, human players make mistakes, it's just in their nature. So playing against a CPU that makes little to no mistakes when countering or attacking is harder then a human player. The only reason it is easy to beat level 9 CPUs is because of their predictable patterns and the fact that they can't out smart a human player, as they are programmed to only follow certain steps. A human mind has the ability to think much farther then that of a CPU with set patterns already programmed in. As humans start to learn techniques that weren't intended to be put in the game, the CPUs won't learn them and it will become even easier to beat them. I've never tried to play more then 1 level 9 CPU at a time, because I just don't feel like it is worth any form of practice whatsoever.

 

[SlyNinja]

I'm 57-1 against lvl 9 CPUs as Falco since I practice at my house, play Brawl at my friends to get in multiplayer since my room with the Wii in it is to small.

The reason that lvl 9 CPU are hard isn't because the AI was actually buffed, it's because it's PROGRAMMED to read your button input. Ever notice you can be shielding, quick roll behind your foe and in a matter of half a second a down smash hits you.

That is why I don't see how going against a lvl 9 makes you worse, it won't help you with combos I agree, but the defensive strategy you gain is just amazing.

 

[Supax]

I'm 57-1 against lvl 9 CPUs as Falco since I practice at my house, play Brawl at my friends to get in multiplayer since my room with the Wii in it is to small.

The reason that lvl 9 CPU are hard isn't because the AI was actually buffed, it's because it's PROGRAMMED to read your button input. Ever notice you can be shielding, quick roll behind your foe and in a matter of half a second a down smash hits you.

That is why I don't see how going against a lvl 9 makes you worse, it won't help you with combos I agree, but the defensive strategy you gain is just amazing.

57-1? Is that all you do all day, play lvl 9s all day and write down your wins and losses?? wtf...

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

becuz wii r utlra 1337 dood!111111111111

 

[products]

57-1? Is that all you do all day, play lvl 9s all day and write down your wins and losses?? wtf...

You're just jealous that you've never beaten ANY lvl 9 character more than 57 times.

 

[pyro363]

I think its the fact that they might be ashamed to say it because most people who play can.

 

[J0K3R]

I think its the fact that they might be ashamed to say it because most people who play can.

Truth!

 

[Supax]

You're just jealous that you've never beaten ANY lvl 9 character more than 57 times.

yeah you're right actually.. I don't think I've even played 57 level 9 bot matches... But that doesn't make me jealous. Good guess though!!!!

 

[Kietharr]

I prefer level 8s to Level 9s. Just because in an FFA match, ALL THE CPUs aim for you no matter what, until your dead, with everything they've got.

Yes, I've lost quite a few matches to them. No I am not ashamed. I will continue to train on them.

However, considering that Brawl is only a fortnight old, perhaps some of us just haven't mastered everything there is to master. I speak of those who have admit to losing and are not ashamed.
Most of us are still at the "floor" level, and in a few years we all might be perfect shielding with ease and air dodging everything, while laughing at our former selves when we thought level 9s were hard.

Who knows.

I also noticed that the CPU gangs up on the player in this game, I literally watched two NPCs sit and take turns juggling my friend after I died in a FFA between me, him, and 2 lv9s. They didn't hit each other once until we were both dead.

 

[Luigi Smash Master]

i hate their airdodging, and perfect shielding/grabs. they even try to space out a little unlike melee where they just charged head on. in FFA however it is annoying when i am DIing in the air and ALL 3 FOLLOW ME till i hit the ground without attacking each other

 

[Chaos Paladin]

ill agree lv 9s are harder but ever since i first started the game they were extremely easy for me to beat, i just ran around the stage and toyed with them sometimes because they bored me XD But for some reason level 5s kicked my @$$ lol. Maybe its just because i didnt expect much from them. I also noticed that lv 9s get stuck in stages more often then in melee o.O they still get trapped at the bottom of temple and other stages.

 

[Spellman]

Actually, I lost a lot against the "New Challenger Approaching". J-Puff got me once, and Wolf got me like 2 or 3 times.

 

[Best101]

It is kind of funny really. It is like they are afraid to come out and just say that they were ***** by a level 9 Lucario, Pikachu, or Metaknight.

It is even more of a hilarity when they try to downtalk their skill when clearly the level 9's in this Smash are a force to be reckoned with.

In Melee, Level 9's had a very limited repertoire of skills and combat prowess. Not to mention, once you found out the simplistic pattern, you could thrash them.

In Brawl however, Level 9's don't screw around. They will use items, They will perfect shield (nearly 85% of the frickin' time) They roll, they use full smashes, they ledge grab, AND they gimp! That is just the surface, as their whole AI patterns seem to be a lot more complicated in the sense that they seem to use moves that counter your own, AND seemingly can "predict" what you are going to do before you do it. So if you are predictable, there is a chance that they can "adapt" to that and punish for you.

I say "adapt" but it is obviously not the same as a human's adaptation. They can seemingly adapt because the patterns you exhibit are far more frequent, and become common, so the AI repeats it's pre rendered pattern to abuse for it.

I just don't understand how silly people can be when it comes to admitting defeat to a smart computer. Don't assume that something is wrong with you if you lose to a level 9 in BRAWL, because a level 9 in Brawl is far more smarter than a level 9 in melee will ever be.

As a matter of fact? Play a level 7 in Brawl. They are very reminiscent of a level 9 computer from Melee. THEN, play a level 9 in Brawl. The differences are big.

Computers can now be used for great practice, but should not be the only practice, nor is it the best. Human vs. Human will always be prevalent, and far more preferred, but don't assume that you can not gain anything by facing a level 9 brawl computer. You can learn so much about another characters moves and what to counter with when the computer is hard pressing you with the full extent of his character's moveset. At the very least, it makes good training if you have a friend who uses a character you can't best.

Meanwhile, I am trying my hardest to beat a team of a level 9 Marth and a level 9 Ike. I get very close, managing to drag them too one stock, but I slip up and they **** me.

So what are your views on the whole level 9 thing?

Level 9 coms are hard? Don't make me laugh =p
They are just as easy as the level 9s in Melee. I four stock level 9 coms easily, and I've been doing that without taking more the 50% damage consistently.

I have to admit that they were a little hard on the first two days I had the game when I didn't know the game's physics as well as I do now, but I remember how hard level 9s were when I first got Melee.

Just give yourself more time to adapt to the game

 

[Enkidu]

Being able to easily dispose of level 9s in Brawl does not mean they are just as easy as the ones from Melee.

 

[Mushy]

Actually, level 9 Marths are absolutely horrible. this is coming from a Ness player, so
WHAT?????
I've never lost to a comp Marth. ever. those things are absolutely horrible, and they even play like Ken now.
I'd say Toon Link has the best AI.

 

[batsman415]

the lvl. 9 comp does seem better. just today i decided i was gonna start playing against comps ( my bro and cuz usually play with me), and man was i surprised. They were blocking everything, and they were edgehogging.eventually i got bored of getting my *** kicked and left my wii alone for about an hour and then went back. i read online how alot of people were having trouble with lvl. 9 wolves so i fought him. i three stocked him much tyo my own surprise. i then put the cpuon random, and won most of my matches. i started to pick up on thier **** little strategies, although the ****ers do adapt. but then i fought pikachu. he plays like an annoying pikachu mainer, spamming the thunder. he got a ****ing thunder kill on me. i fought him agian, and he killed me, but he was at 180%. but yeah the comps are better then before. my brawls comp is named Apollo Creed. and tommorow, Apollos pikachu goes down.

 

[ChozoChampion]

lol yeah marth AI still sucks but at least he attempts to counter now

 

[ChozoChampion]

the lvl. 9 comp does seem better. just today i decided i was gonna start playing against comps ( my bro and cuz usually play with me), and man was i surprised. They were blocking everything, and they were edgehogging.eventually i got bored of getting my *** kicked and left my wii alone for about an hour and then went back. i read online how alot of people were having trouble with lvl. 9 wolves so i fought him. i three stocked him much tyo my own surprise. i then put the cpuon random, and won most of my matches. i started to pick up on thier **** little strategies, although the ****ers do adapt. but then i fought pikachu. he plays like an annoying pikachu mainer, spamming the thunder. he got a ****ing thunder kill on me. i fought him agian, and he killed me, but he was at 180%. but yeah the comps are better then before. my brawls comp is named Apollo Creed. and tommorow, Apollos pikachu goes down.

really people having trouble with pika and wolf....?
i have no problem with either....but for some reason olimar gets me from time to time

 

[Supax]

really people having trouble with pika and wolf....?
i have no problem with either....but for some reason olimar gets me from time to time

Meh he's right. Pikachu is easy... I just played some level 9's earlier for fun and I 3 stocked all of them with the exception of one 2 stock I had on Pit... They really aren't that hard, but I didn't get any practice. I still don't plan on playing against them regularly though because it could mess up my skill against human players.

I would choose to practice on level 9's over humans on Wifi any day though.. Bad lag free practice > Lag practice with Humans IMO.

 

[RaigothDagon]

Lol, had 2 lvl 9 cpus against eachother. 1 pikachu, the other wario. pikachu used thunder about 16 times in a row when he got wario off the ledge. I think cpus suck in this.

 

[really_calm]

I think the lvl 9s are still predictable, but they do teach you a bit about spacing, shield grabbing, and not telegraphing your moves.

I rarely lose to a lvl 9, but it does happen occasionally, but honestly, why play AI at all when you have human players so easily accessible from facebook, wifiwars, allisbrawl etc.

 

[Frey]

I think the lvl 9s are still predictable, but they do teach you a bit about spacing, shield grabbing, and not telegraphing your moves.

I rarely lose to a lvl 9, but it does happen occasionally, but honestly, why play AI at all when you have human players so easily accessible from facebook, wifiwars, allisbrawl etc.

because if you just dont feel like writing down those **** numbers and wanna jump in asap, you play cpu.

 

[Supax]

because if you just dont feel like writing down those **** numbers and wanna jump in asap, you play cpu.

And wifi lags and doesn't show skill...

But I agree with whoever says CPUs are extremely easy on level 9... I main TL and I can pull off moves on them that would never work on humans (ie. Spam d-air)... Sure they can be good practice at times... But I've been playing against level 9s for the past hour to see why people think they are so hard in this game, and they really aren't. They have taken me down to 1 stock, but usually I can 2-3 stock them with ease... Just my opinion.

 

[error_alt_delete]

level 9's are good, and like mentionerd before, in FFA's, they will all stop fighting entirely to wait for you ALL OF THEM. it was creepy, them watching me fall and waiting to team attack me....but ya, I have only lost a few matches to them, and only when I use one of the characters I have no exp with. if I use anyone else, they are still too easy for me. I usualy 3 stock them even when they are lvl 9.

 

[captainfalconmute]

theres nothing wrong with losing to a level 9 if your using a character you have absolutely no experience with

i havent played brawl, but i still lose to level 9s in melee. sometimes even if im playing with a character im good with (kirby). i know that means i suck, but i couldnt care less.

 

[Gindler]

First time I lost to a lvl 9 we were both on last stock, I wasn't my main, and I got footstooled jumped to my death by luigi "/.

Whever I'm my main (yoshi) I can usually 2-3 stock them on a 3 stock match however luigi is still my biggest problem to date (always pulls off a inhumanly timed fire upper cut of doom)

So yes, I have lost to a lvl 9 and was truly upset because that never happened in melee (these ones are SOOOOO much better!)

 

[thetoastinator]

I ***** a Lv. 9 Pit with Ike, Dedede, and Kirby!

Pit is pretty hard... (**** his cheap over B. > )

 

[thetoastinator]

And wifi lags and doesn't show skill...

But I agree with whoever says CPUs are extremely easy on level 9... I main TL and I can pull off moves on them that would never work on humans (ie. Spam d-air)... Sure they can be good practice at times... But I've been playing against level 9s for the past hour to see why people think they are so hard in this game, and they really aren't. They have taken me down to 1 stock, but usually I can 2-3 stock them with ease... Just my opinion.

Well, if you spam moves like that on a CPU, than yes, they are easy. However, when you try to beat some level 9 up without spamming moves, it is a challenge.

 

[HeroAnri]

CPU will always be a CPU....just abuse any smashes and they will die...

i admit i was ***** when i first started but after learning how to spike, they get 3 stocked pz

 

[Sheers Man]

Level 9's are certainly more challenging in Brawl, I have been playing R.O.B. a lot, since I like him and want to get better with him, and I hardly ever win against them.

Although with Toon Link I slaughter them. :s

 

[MajinSweet]

I find that Brawl's lv 9 are actually much worse. Its pretty obvious that the developers wanted to make them fight more "human like" because of how stale they were in Melee but, they took it way too far. Melee's lv 9's were far from challenging, but they at least were good at abusing what computers are capable of abusing. Such as timing, and reaction speed. In Brawl, they fight like a human opponent that has zero mind games, you may have played people like this before. They might catch you off guard at first, due to there randomness and sometimes surprising tech skill, but once you realize that they don't play smart--you can trounce them. Brawl's computers are easy to abuse just like Melee's computers but, they don't throw out any of the cheap stuff a computer opponent is capable of. It was only the second day I had the game and I was able to consistently beat the Brawl lv 9's with characters I hadn't even used.

 

[TakDragon7]

What lvl 9 cpu's do is that they go after you then once they beat you, then they go after each other. That has happened to me a lot lately so that's why I just go 1 on 1 now.

 

[Senshuu]

I would guess it's the bitterness of being tag-teamed by three computers using moves that aren't humanly possible. And then they taunt you in unison.

But, being beaten by a computer isn't really shameful. And no one should care--"Ohh level 9s are easy" Well good for you. But, can you beat humans? That's the thing! Even lv. 9s have predictable patterns.

 

[brawlmaniac]

I haven't even attempted to fight a lvl 9 computer yet. If I lose, I'm not afraid to admit it. The highest lvl comp. I've fought and won against has been level 6. And even before that, I've lost to lvl 3 computers lol.

 

[skuzzel]

I have not played much against them to be honest. If your playing against them, more than likely, your screwing up your game. Computers are always good at some things, but they always FAIL when you compare them to your own ability to learn or change. Case in point, I played a level 9 once, threw him off the edge and he whent under the stage and did a perfect sweet spot (meaning he used the whole range of his jump and the tiny buffer zone around the ledge to make it really hard to gimp him). It was pretty cool, so I instantly threw him off again and ,like a computer, he did the same thing again and because I knew where he was going to be I gimped him. At the time I thought it was cheap, and that I should play towards thier game. But the point is, thier game is not human game, playing against reflexs does not teach you how to get instant reflexs, it teaches you to avoid and wait for the pattern, no matter how hard you try.

Leave the comps alone son, THIER BAD FOR YOU.

 

[Ace13]

I have never lost to a lvl9 in Brawl, but I have had a couple close calls when I was trying out some new techniques.