Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ran's change in style is hella bothering me. Until the last page of the thread he was almost completely absent which is so unlike Ran that my alarm bells were going off every page I clicked an didn't see a Ran post. I get that maybe he's trying to go for a new style here but damn, my gut is telling me that he's just scum AND trying to use a new style but is overwhelmed by the pressure of changing from town to scum from last game AND trying to use a new style and is just stuck in this paralysis of not knowing what move to make because he cares too much about how he'll be perceived. Maybe I'm reading way too deep into it but yeah Ran's slot is pinging hard for me at this point.

dont wanna put words in your mouth so ill ask outright: does that mean ran is in the "can go" pile strictly based off gut? if so, what are your thoughts of what he said last page?

also, if the play from that slot came from someone you didnt have prior expectations from, what would your read be?

 

[OrangeXhtml]

This (the bolded) seems like you really didn't think it through.

What am I, scum with Lore AND soup, and trying to clear my buddy Lore after soup flips?

Of all the things you could criticize about my #316 this just seems weird.

That's fair, I guess I didn't thoroughly think through all that would imply. I'd agree that play wouldn't make much sense.

I didn't ask you to justify your reads. I asked you why my direction was bad.

And I told you why I thought your direction was bad through how I view the slots. The two are very closely associated lol.

I'll be away most of the day at a friend's house for the 4th, but I wanted to address Kary's stuff before heading out. Hope y'all get to enjoy some fireworks today!

 

[#HBC | marshy]

You weren't kidding about posting less this game, huh.

Okay, riddle me this. Who do you think is most likely to be scum between Ryker, Tom, and KevinM, and why? It doesn't have to be an essay. Just a reason.

i sat there thinking of responses but was like 'lol what does he want me to do? brandish my sword and charge pythag declaring that he must b scum with lore?' so i left it cuz idk what else to tell ya

mm. kevin i guess. simply cuz i kno he can drop a dank mixtape with some hot reads by now but hes been usin a narrow scope thus far. ryker i can see as biding his time and tom ive seen trying to cooperate with players while he has been here

 

[#HBC | marshy]

ff y r u such a h8r

youre tellin me dude. karys clearly harrassing me cuz hes jealous of my freedom and independence

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

these mofos out here hate us cuz they aint us

 

[OrangeXhtml]

EBWOP: Furthermore, I'm fairly sure Lore/Soup/Kary isn't a scumteam because of how early Kary called out that we should lynch between Soup and Lore today (which still looks super opportunistic imo). Anyways, I'll be off now. Don't wanna Mafia and drive

 

[#HBC | marshy]

attn town

in honor of our independence, please rise and stand at attention for our new national anthem. sung by our very own omni, whos clearly moved onto bigger and better things:

 

[ranmaru]

Happy 4th of July my dudes. I am enjoying some hotdogs and hamburgers.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

ff y r u such a h8r

cuz u do grime af **** bro lmao don't even play coy and pretend like you didn't know that "lol playing town is so hard guys I have to like read people omg" wasn't cheese WIFOM bull****

dont wanna put words in your mouth so ill ask outright: does that mean ran is in the "can go" pile strictly based off gut? if so, what are your thoughts of what he said last page?

also, if the play from that slot came from someone you didnt have prior expectations from, what would your read be?

yeah its mostly gut and due to the extreme meta difference. I don't have much content to go off of and whats there is very bland so I'm not getting much out of it. my read is absolutely based on dispositional differences

If I knew nothing about the player in his slot I've probably just have them in the null but can go pile

i sat there thinking of responses but was like 'lol what does he want me to do? brandish my sword and charge pythag declaring that he must b scum with lore?' so i left it cuz idk what else to tell ya

mm. kevin i guess. simply cuz i kno he can drop a dank mixtape with some hot reads by now but hes been usin a narrow scope thus far. ryker i can see as biding his time and tom ive seen trying to cooperate with players while he has been here

top paragraph I feel on a deep ****in level when people get mad that my D1 reads are more gut and context based than hard core content based cases. like bros we don't have a ****ing paper trail here, I'm not gonna conjure some insanely confident content based read by overanalyzing every line posted and forcing connections like goddamn charlie from always sunny hunting for ****ing pepe silvia lmao

Kevin > Ryker > Tom scumminess ordering is on point bro especially given your reasoning but I could prob see an argument for swapping Ryker and Tom depending on what you think Ryker is setting up/waiting for and how intentional that decision is

 

[Lore]

I am interested on your thoughts on Spak. Nothing to ask about what I dislike about your play.

The slot is iffy, and I'm trying to decide if his lack of clear, defined opinions is playstyle or something more. However, I'm struggling to think of something to ask him that hasn't already been asked. Mostly waiting on his replies to Kary etc

 

[Lore]

Ebwop: looks like he answered on the next page. I'll think of something to ask, but I'm a bit distracted today lol.

 

[ranmaru]

If there is not anything else to be asked, you can simply vote on the wagon stating what you agree with and why so we can see your thought process. If you see anything else that is just extra.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Also, I don't like that Pythag seems to just be rolling with the general thread opinion. He was fine with my interactions with Lore at the time, then he said that my interactions reminded him of Doop after Gorf's post, he voted FF out of the blue, then he transitioned to thinking I'm a little scummy after that but never swapped the vote over. He seems to be just floating along with thread opinion, which makes me believe that he's either a little scum or an extremely suggestible townie.

can you break down why you dont buy pythags breakdown of how he transitioned to seeing spak v lore differently (321)?

also him being fine with yours and lore interactions at the time, along with how he felt uninterested in scumreading soup or lore based off of their back and forth =/= "floating with the threads opinion." me comparing you to doop was the first time anyone ever did that in thread, and aside from kevinm approving of my dank analysis, pythag was the very next person to express approval or agreement to that, only seven posts later. he either predicted that everyone would agree with how incredibly dank my input was or he just genuinely agreed and didnt give as much credence to it at the time (which he even acknowledged, bringing up his early tvt vibe (which even at the time seemed like it was just a gut thing he didnt care about going to deep into)). from what ive read hes also generally been hesitant to stick his head out much. so yea i gotta say i dont get where youre coming from when you say hes just "floating along with the thread opinion."

Soup's vote was a little weird (and I agree that he DEFINITELY should've done a votecount before hopping on the Ryker wagon), but I understand the unvote because Ryker was at L-1 (which is a really dangerous spot for an inactive scum to go "I like the Ryker wagon", vote Ryker, and blame not having read up to kill a slot that has no paper trail). I also think that people are putting way too much weight into an RVS meme vote. His reactions have seemed fairly natural and he's been actively involved in conversation, so I'm more than happy to keep him around

The Lore town lean is mostly strong gut/meta; interacting with them this game felt identical to last, and while I don't necessarily like their decision making some of the time, it's consistent and feels genuine. I feel like scum!Lore would've backed off and not gone for hypothetical #2; it seems like they were legitimately trying to work their way out of RVS (as aimless as early-game hypotheticals are), and most scum would try to back out of the spotlight after catching some heat (or at least not repeat the same thing). I understand the Lore wagon from the perspective of slots that haven't had heavy interaction with Lore in the past, but I'm willing to put a lot of the accusations against Lore on playstyle rather than alignment.

Happy 4th, everybody!

also bla bla bla agree with spak's distance from the lore/soup thing is strange. wrt soup, only touching on the ryker vote thing and chalking up the rest of soups content as just "natural" and liking his "active involvement in conversation" feels quite shallow with what we have in the thread to consider. this is in contrast to ff's elaboration on his soup read, where he states that a lot of the conclusions soups been making align with his. and he even acknowledges soup as being "meh" in the end. wrt lore, im curious about why you think the motivations marshy has listed for why itd make sense for scum!lore to play out the way lore did doesnt hold up. or is it really just... gut/meta? if it is then yea i guess you can see why i take this as feeling shallow

 

[Fandangox]

No. I'm just trying to understand why the two of you are questioning Pythag. I didn't see anything that makes me think he's scum.

Like I said, Pythag hasn't been doing much in the game, and when presented with the opportunity to do so (In their own admission, they thought Spak may be scummy and didn't want to give them the benefit of the doubt) they push for something else instead.

The slot would look worse in my eyes if Lore flips scum, due to their early exchanges.

 

[Fandangox]

That's fair, I guess I didn't thoroughly think through all that would imply. I'd agree that play wouldn't make much sense.

And I told you why I thought your direction was bad through how I view the slots. The two are very closely associated lol.

You say you are town-reading (or leaning) Lore based on their playstyle from the last game, but in your #348 you said "I feel like scum!Lore would've backed off and not gone for hypothetical #2" But don't you think Lore's play has been largely non-confrontional? Only think Lore has largely pressured has been Soup, which is basically the other wagon option.

You said their play is consistent and feels genuine, but don't you think their sudden timing for their vote soup and their reasoning doesn't come off as forced?

Like it is fine to use meta for a lean, but it shouldn't be the only way to write off a slot. Do think Lore is scumhunting? What do you think of their constant backing off after being pressured?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Overall here's where I'm at, tiers are not ordered:

Not the play:
3. marshy
6. Kary
8. Ryker
11. Fandangox

Meh:

2. ѕoup
5. KevinM
9. Pythag
10. Tom

EGMEOY:

12. Gorf

Can go:

1. Ranmaru
4. OrangeXHTML
7. Lore

When I was looking at your list in reference to my own disposition, I noticed that Kary/Ryker are not the play while Tom/KevinM are only Meh to you. Are you reads on those slots different due to how they've approached my wagon or is it more of a tonal thing? The reason I bring this up is that Kary/Ryker/KevinM/Tom really haven't accredited their opinion towards me despite a few words, and if there's something uncanny I find about my own wagon is that it's made up of people who are choosing to be silent or continually shoving my votecount mistake in front of my face. I understand this may be selfish of me but you happened to agree with my thoughts about my own wagon, so would like further opinions on it from you.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup, my play style right now won't be an excuse, and I quite like it, and it has a purpose. Tell me, why default to #174 over me and Kary suspecting you for one post? Why did it tilt you? Lore's #227 was grimy. I like the Lore wagon better than Soup now. Now, Marshy explained to you that I'll be easy to read by the end of the day here: #254. Do you disagree? You said you understand why I am trying to do this. So you shouldn't have a problem at this point in time.

Ryker's style tends to be more bait-heavy so I figured leading into it would perhaps get him to reveal more of his hand, but instead he's just been ignoring me. I don't really know how to feel about Ryker but I do know that his motif is usually playing close to null as either alignment and then organizing wagons are self-serving. It tilted me because I know for a fact I'm town and I was busting my ass elsewhere because I honestly just like being town and having the freedom to state my opinions; you can read that however you want but it's the truth. After a while I was thinking about whether or not my opinions were needed so I ****ed off for a bit to think about some things.

In terms You/Kary? Kary is stubborn regardless of alignment so it's pretty much a non-tell and while marshy/Kary aren't similar people they both play in the same ballpark with their votes, leading onto people who will squirm and then deciding if they're gonna move it depending on what reactions they get. When it comes to you, that is definitely not your style and I expect you to be more willing to talk things out with me. It seems that you've adopted of reading the room and then announcing things impromptu, but I dunno if I agree with FF if that's scummy from you or not.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Consider my response in #377 a response to you as well #HBC | Gorf

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Like I said, Pythag hasn't been doing much in the game, and when presented with the opportunity to do so (In their own admission, they thought Spak may be scummy and didn't want to give them the benefit of the doubt) they push for something else instead.

The slot would look worse in my eyes if Lore flips scum, due to their early exchanges.

Yeah, this is where I'm a bit more choosy about who I want gone. I think Spak's vote on Pythag is fine but hearing people telling me that perhaps it was wrong of me to dismiss Spak so easily has got me indecisive. I don't think scum are playing to bus anytime soon and as the thread continues to develop I refer back to what I said earlier about them playing with their food. Let the record state that I still do not like Lore, but I digress. I don't think scum has any reason to differentiate from the norm right now between us, which is why I feel like..gut-level good about people giving **** to Spak despite not fully agreeing. There's people like marshy/Ryker who need to update their opinions for example.

 

[Fandangox]

So how about that readlist @#HBC | soup

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

So how about that readlist @#HBC | soup

Not until I'm ready lol

 

[ranmaru]

You say his vote on Pythag is fine but you had concerns with his play at an early stage. Has this subsided for you now, or does it still factor into your Spak read? What is your exact stance on him Soup?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You say his vote on Pythag is fine but you had concerns with his play at an early stage. Has this subsided for you now, or does it still factor into your Spak read? What is your exact stance on him Soup?

I haven't read into his posts yet in entirety (read: skim) so I doubt I'd have anything interesting to say. I've also glanced the arguments against him but I don't see two scum members interacting in the way Lore/Spak so it could be a case of one if not the other? Still banking on Lore though for obvious reasons, you disagree?

 

[ranmaru]

I do disagree, and actually think Spak has a higher chance of flipping scum than Lore. I implore you to read through his posts more thoroughly and look at the arguments Gorf and I brought up.

 

[Fandangox]

Not until I'm ready lol

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

soup you say you dont expect scummates to bus eachother yet spak has taken every precaution possible since his beginning interactions with lore to cleanse himself of any sort of negative read on lore. like spak couldve taken that direction, and early on left the doors open either way with their first 1-2 posts directed toward lore. but then he didnt. if im wrong on my interpretation of this please clarify but if not, can you be more specific about how their earlier interactions make you think its not the way scum!spak interacts with scum!lore?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

fandangox can you change your avy to that ness avatar you used to rock? i hate associating you with a different avy and i promise ill townread you even harder if you do

 

[Fandangox]

Man that avatar is so old, I made it on MS Paint iirc. I could try to find it, but I tend to change avatars to whatever I last drew, so I would change it eventually anyways

 

[Pythag]

Ok, I have limited access until Sunday night, as I have been traveling for Independence Day.
Also all my posting until then is on mobile.

unvote vote : spak/Orange

FF’s post was solid.

I also like his catch on Gorf calling himself town.
It’s a personal thing, I don’t like people straight up calling themselves town like that, exceptions given to Kevin and Tom because it’s been hilarious and more tongue and cheek.

Gorfs “town post” is the primary reason I have him as null rather than town lean. But it’s been primarily personal so I don’t that I feel as strongly as FF does.

Spak and Fandangox and currently at the top of my scum list.

Fandangox looks opportunistic as heck voting on Lore and then pressuring me for votes.

Fandangox also looks like he was trying to dismiss my scum read on Spak with regard to the negativity argument. Looks bad for him if spak flips scum.

Spak however looks scummiest. In his defense and voting for me he manages to cast shade on Kary, Lore and Soup, (and me obv)

I’m sorry that I’m only on mobile, and I have much worse reception where I am at, but that’s what I have for you at the time.

 

[Fandangox]

Fandangox also looks like he was trying to dismiss my scum read on Spak with regard to the negativity argument. Looks bad for him if spak flips scum.

This is like the exact opposite of what I was doing. My problem is that you claimed you no longer think Spak vs Lore was TvT and ended up being more negative about Spak, but didn't vote them or push, and went for FF instead.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

uhh Pythag i think you need to read the thread more before you express your reads. on top of what fandangox said spak was actually outright defending lore and soup, but imo the argument for that being grimy is that his substantiation is really shallow and seems like weird rationale for town reads. when you get to a computer can you outline where youre reading him throwing shade on lore and soup

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ok, I've kinda just let this **** happen past me.

I'm gonna go through the thread and actually flesh out my reads on Soup/Lore/Spak tomorrow when I'm around.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

And I told you why I thought your direction was bad through how I view the slots. The two are very closely associated lol.

It seems to me like you're not really analyzing the things that I have said or done.

 

[ranmaru]

That's what pinged me in Spak's post. He states he *really dislikes [what kary stated]* when it comes to something trivial. He's trying to make something out of nothing, to establish a scumlean.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

That's what pinged me in Spak's post. He states he *really dislikes [what kary stated]* when it comes to something trivial. He's trying to make something out of nothing, to establish a scumlean.

What do you think is the scummiest point against Spak?

 

[ranmaru]

My #332.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

fireworks bby!!!!!!

jk smash/mafia bby

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Pythag , when you see this, do me a solid and give me three relevant reads of yours with brief explanations of people that aren’t fandangox, lore/soup (depending on which one you find scummier, if you find them both townleans/whatever you can include them both) or spak real quick

 

[Tom]

When I was looking at your list in reference to my own disposition, I noticed that Kary/Ryker are not the play while Tom/KevinM are only Meh to you. Are you reads on those slots different due to how they've approached my wagon or is it more of a tonal thing? The reason I bring this up is that Kary/Ryker/KevinM/Tom really haven't accredited their opinion towards me despite a few words, and if there's something uncanny I find about my own wagon is that it's made up of people who are choosing to be silent or continually shoving my votecount mistake in front of my face. I understand this may be selfish of me but you happened to agree with my thoughts about my own wagon, so would like further opinions on it from you.

When you say "my votecount mistake" do you mean you really intended to hammer Ryker?

I'm around guys but my reads haven't changed much.

I dont agree with FF and Pythag about Gorf's comment about being town. I think its null and I dont like that they think its scummy. I also know/remember that Ranmaru said he was going to post way less after getting railed for posting so much last game and so I dont like FFs assessment of Ran either.

 

[Lore]

The fact that he goes from saying the vote count mistake was "just part of the joke" to now saying it was an actual mistake makes keeping my vote on him very comfortable.