whos the hardest/easiest cpu in brawl+

[Wander]

Easiest: So far, Ganondorf. He was already pretty easy in vBrawl, but he's having a hard time adjusting to the physics changes in B+. It's like playing a Heavy Brawl or Giant Brawl - the CPUs don't seem to notice that things are a little different, and try playing the same as they always did.

Hardest: Toon Link, maybe because I'm not used to him doing anything other than running and throwing projectiles at me.

 

[Cruncher93]

CPU's don't learn, and that's a fact.

I've mirrored my Falco AT LEAST 100 times already since this game came out and he still can't do SHDL, SHL, the CG, dair as an approach, recovering with phantasm, or pretty much ANYTHING I do. In fact, he spams reflector, which is something I never do. Hey, you know what? I went to my friend's house once and got the same result; the same shine-spamming Falco

Well, thats the point. He learned that u use SHDL & SHL, thats why he is spamming his reflector, because he thinks u are firing the lazer,

 

[Meru.]

Peach is such a ****. To me, she's the hardest. I main Peach, but she still does some things where I'm really surpirsed off, pfff... Luigi and Pikachu are also somewhat hard, compared to the other CPU's of course.

The easiest are Ganondorf and Fox, and maybe Olimar.

About the CPU's, here my story:

I don't like Snake and I suck with him so I've almost never played him. I played him in the time when I always played with Items on high. I couldn't do tilts at all.

Months later: I now knew what I was doing and played good Snakes. Of course, they abused Utilt a lot. Since then, whenever I play a CPU 9 Snake, he also abuses Utilt. Seriously, he has never done that before. But now, after I've played the good Snakes, the CPU 9 Snake uses Utilt A LOT more.

 

[Sph34r]

@metaXzero:

Yes, I suppose you're right, neither side can really "prove it." Oh well =/

 

[goodoldganon]

Lvl 9 Luigi dominates everyone

 

[Plum]

It's not unrealistic to say they do learn; but at the same time the game proves they don't.

I can look at my CPU G&W and see how it slowly developed a better style of play. At the release of Brawl it would spam Chef, Judgement and SH Fair and never use Dthrow (always opting for Uthrow, Fthrow or Bthrow). It seems that over time it picked up my own tendencies. Now it looks like he goes through 3 though processes: Is the opponent in the air and far away? Bair. Is the opponent in the air and close? Nair. Is the opponent on the ground? Dtilt. That's basically all it does now, and actually this week marks the first time I've seen it Dthrow almost every grab. It looks like he tries to tech chase a Usmash, but he just Usmashes right after the throw without it hitting.

At the same time you have a CPU like Olimar who will go entire stocks without ever plucking any Pikmin. He knows he doesn't have any Pikmin, and will only use tilts and Nair but he is just so stupid for never plucking them. When he has Pikmin he does great, but its like it never occurs to him to always have Pikmin available for that same level of ****.

Some CPU's at the same time really understand B+ physics and adapt very well. Luigi has fluid combos and Nair's his way out of whatever you do, while Spacies are the opposite and SD every time they end up off stage.

 

[Sl1th]

Lvl 9 Luigi dominates everyone

Amen to that

Besides Luigi I find myself having a hard time against Zelda. I main Samus and DK and at least once every time I fight her I get Faired and bu-bye stock.

Bowser is still a push over as always CPU wise. And I dont know if its been pre-proggrammed but he has overB'ed me off the edge on the last stock.

 

[nightSN]

CPU's don't learn, and that's a fact.

I've mirrored my Falco AT LEAST 100 times already since this game came out and he still can't do SHDL, SHL, the CG, dair as an approach, recovering with phantasm, or pretty much ANYTHING I do. In fact, he spams reflector, which is something I never do. Hey, you know what? I went to my friend's house once and got the same result; the same shine-spamming Falco who uses firebird to recover horizontally.

CPU's come with preprogrammed attack strings that they spam at you without regard to what you're doing. The only reason one may think CPU's learn is because by having this mindset, he only mentally takes note the CPU did something intelligent, and blatantly disregards the 99 other times the CPU was doing its usual stupid thing.

get a better wii cause my falco cpu can do all of that LMAO

 

[Sr. P & R]

He isn't the hardest, but Tink always likes to throw the boomerang, start a combo, and have the bommerang hit me just as it ends so that he can keep comboing me. Also, Luigi can also manage some crazy combos, Wolf plays absurdly aggressive and can be fairly difficult, and Mario combos well and edgeguards like crazy.

As for the easiest, I would say Fox or maybe Olimar

 

[VietGeek]

For peeps who think CPUs don't learn, save more replays of yourself and...well replay them. It's easier for them to learn if they mimic your moves exactly.

Also Falco isn't exactly the brightest CPU to begin with,

try it with someone like Wolf, Peach, Luigi, Sheik

 

[Nybb]

Nybb, that's incorrect. Brawl AIs will take repeated input strings and attempt to use them within their own playstyles, often with no results, sometimes with hilarious results, and occasionally with good results.

Also, I'm not trying to sound condescending, but if you knew much about AI and programming you would know how possible it is to incorporate repeated input strings into an AI, especially for a game like this.

Well Ark I am a university Comp Sci major who has designed/programmed several computer games in the past, so I would like to think that I do know at least more than the average person about programming and AI I'm pretty sure that if Brawl AIs could actually distinguish effective player strategies and duplicate them on their own in order to constantly increase their performance, there would have been quite a lot of noise made about Brawl's AI programming in the tech community.

This would be a very impressive feat indeed, and it would require a lot of work. Somehow it doesn't seem very plausible to me that Sakurai and his team of competition-hating programmers would put so much effort into what they saw as a random and trivial party game.

they do learn, after converting to + they now airdodge immedately after they get out of hit-stun no matter what, even if i run away from them they will airdodge, then i play normal brawl again and they will continue to do this, quite amusing.

THEY LEARN.

check out luigi Vbrawl dominance

Luigi dominance disproves CPUs learning. If he does indeed always do the best out of the CPUs (haven't checked the background of the data but I am assuming this is true) then it must be because other CPUs are not learning. Obviously not everybody plays a good Luigi, so how could every Wii get a good Luigi AI? And if CPUs actually learned, MK would win every match vs. other CPUs, not to mention posing a significant threat to players.

 

[Rhykune]

Wouldn't the fact that CPU's don't desynch in Brawl + Replays pretty much prove that they don't learn? I mean, it only saves the players input, and the CPU just does what it is programmed to do. If you watched an old replay now, it wouldn't suddenly start using advanced techniques that it didn't know before on your character...

 

[zephyrnereus]

I guess it would depend in the way you use the definition of "learn"
I see it as "being able to analyse and copy certain movements at certain times"

here is the video I was talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMcEUsMd9Cw
that not something you would see in brawl that came right out of the box, would it?

 

[Arkaether]

Well Ark I am a university Comp Sci major who has designed/programmed several computer games in the past, so I would like to think that I do know at least more than the average person about programming and AI I'm pretty sure that if Brawl AIs could actually distinguish effective player strategies and duplicate them on their own in order to constantly increase their performance, there would have been quite a lot of noise made about Brawl's AI programming in the tech community.

This would be a very impressive feat indeed, and it would require a lot of work. Somehow it doesn't seem very plausible to me that Sakurai and his team of competition-hating programmers would put so much effort into what they saw as a random and trivial party game.

Not particularly. Several fighting games I've played have a fan-made program which reads input data and programs the CPU to incorporate excessively-used input strings randomly into gameplay to further simulate human activity. It actually doesn't take all that much work.

Also, nobody said brawl AI could "distinguish effective player strategies and duplicate them on their own in order to constantly increase their performance". All they do is copy input strings. After all, the last time I checked, spamming Falcon Punch isn't exactly an "effect player strategy".

Not to mention, being a university comp sci major isn't really all that much of a big deal. If you think that makes you special, think again.

 

[dabridge]

Well Ark I am a university Comp Sci major who has designed/programmed several computer games in the past, so I would like to think that I do know at least more than the average person about programming and AI

Sad to hear that a fellow programmer (and a game programmer, even) can't recognize that saving button inputs and duplicating them isn't hard at all. -_-