• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Who's Left!!!?!?!

Finch

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
1,730
Location
Tallahassee, FL
I agree 100% with nintendude. You get grabs by reading and pressuring your opponent and figure out when you actually have the opportunity, not by just going for grabs. It gets obvious no matter how good your spacing is. Wobbles' game is strong because of his punishment when he gets a grab, but the reason he is so successful is because of his really smart and creative ways of getting grabs that relies on a strong overall foundation. Sitting there and holding uptilt and waiting for them to try to aerial over you will make you lose really fast against someone who knows the matchup.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,444
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
When I get grabs, it's always just through a de-synch into ice block or blizzard and spacing it correctly.
I rarely approach at all unless my opponent really knows the match-up, I just wait for them to come to me, shield grab or de-synched blizzard and bam, one free grab.

I'm still pretty newbie to Ice Climbers, and I'm having trouble with the D-Throw > D-Air chain grab, any advice?
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
I've been trying to steal as much of Chu's playstyle as I can, and then when possible throw in ridiculous CGs and extreme grab punishments that he hasn't incorporated :) The problem is that even though my mental game is very strong, it's not very fast; I need time to figure people out, whereas Chu seems to intuit the other guy's game really quickly. I think this is partly because he's ALWAYS been a really smart player but I spent at least two years devoting my energy to learning how to think while I play. Learning mindgames, so to speak.

I've also been trying to constantly reset positions to neutral so I can gauge and internalize the other guy's approach while avoiding disadvantageous situations. Once I've got the feel for them down, I can start "playing" more and entering RPS or heads/tails situations with confidence that I'll make the right calls.

It's funny that people call me technical, because I've always felt my tech game to be incredibly weak and inconsistent. My good stuff looks great, but maybe people don't realize how many of my actions are actually major flubs. Weird dodges and rolls are whiffed grabs or wavedashes, lots of missed L-cancels, times when I miss buttons on my controller completely... I have neurological tremors so in important matches my hands often spaz out beyond my control.

But I do have one **** fine wavedash, I'll say that much :)

Nintendude: Yeah. Pretty much. I spend a lot of my game jockeying for aerials and wavesmashes and trying to pressure my opponent into situations where he'll make a panicked decision that nets me a grab. For Falcons, it's almost always rolls--his roll is good and usually his best escape option so I try and bait them as much as I can. For other characters it can be a jump when you've pressured them to the edge, then I go for aerials and try to encourage them to stay on the ground. After awhile those aerials either win me the game or ground the other guy, then I start going for blind grabs (by blind I mean no combo or real setup, just approach straight into it). Once your non-grab game is solid and you can without ever touching the Z button, the grabs come in droves.

Comparatively, anyhow. Against good players you still rarely land them because they panic a lot less, but you still get way more than you do by spamming Z.

By the way, does anybody want me to write a big, giant Peach guide? I've been thinking about the matchup and I'd like to put the thoughts to paper, so if anyone wants I'll write a massive document on it.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
I don't believe in strategies that revolve around grab. I think that by playing a strong standard neutral game you will get the grabs just by being a good player and knowing when exactly you are in a good position to grab. This is what Chu does for the most part and that's why he gets more grabs than the rest of us.

By the way PEEF do you have any vids of yourself from POE3 or another recent tourney? Because in all the videos I've seen of you I cringed at how weak your game was (and how bad your opponent was), and you've been tooting your own horn a lot recently.
I wasn't recorded At POE3. Any videos out there of me are quite outdated, I would cringe too.

I hope I don't toot my own horn THAT much... I will try to have videos up from my trip to go play the Chicago crew this weekend.

PS: I thought Wobbles was kidding/exaggerating about having shaky hands during important matches. THIS DUDE HAS THE SHAKIEST HANDS. Legit john right there. Like a leaf on a tree waiting for Tink's counterpick.
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
Nintendude: Yeah. Pretty much. I spend a lot of my game jockeying for aerials and wavesmashes and trying to pressure my opponent into situations where he'll make a panicked decision that nets me a grab. For Falcons, it's almost always rolls--his roll is good and usually his best escape option so I try and bait them as much as I can. For other characters it can be a jump when you've pressured them to the edge, then I go for aerials and try to encourage them to stay on the ground. After awhile those aerials either win me the game or ground the other guy, then I start going for blind grabs (by blind I mean no combo or real setup, just approach straight into it). Once your non-grab game is solid and you can without ever touching the Z button, the grabs come in droves.

Comparatively, anyhow. Against good players you still rarely land them because they panic a lot less, but you still get way more than you do by spamming Z.
Plain old grabbing is the first thing people expect from Ice Climbers. Their natural inclination is to move away from you in some way, hoping that in you chasing them, you'll open yourself up in some way. If you know which scenario is occurring - that is, whether they're in escape mode, attack mode, or even a mixture of the two - you can deal with it properly. This is akin to getting a read, but I prefer to think that the read happens later; you must first discover how to be in sync with the opponent's "danger meter."

Anyway, once this connection is made, it becomes easier to rely less on grabs. Aerial poking and various shielding/spacing gimmicks can create situations where grabs fall into place of their own accord. Positional advantages, such as trapping someone above you with uairs, can be enough to switch someone's mentality from avoiding grabs to getting the hell down, whereupon they fastfall a dair right into your grab.

By the way, does anybody want me to write a big, giant Peach guide? I've been thinking about the matchup and I'd like to put the thoughts to paper, so if anyone wants I'll write a massive document on it.
I'd really, really appreciate that. There are so many specific Peach tactics that I have trouble dealing with. Dairs constantly floated at SH height, dsmashes that happen at awkward times (some people walk up to me and dsmash/wd -> dsmash/running dsmash), turnip setups, etc.

Something in the ballpark of your Marth guide, size-wise, would be splendid.
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
2,881
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Longer, actually. Most of fighting Peach is figuring out how to deal with her various floats because at close quarters on the ground your prime directive is to get the hell away. Rolling multiple times to the edge then using sync'ed squall platform to go over her and back to the middle of the level is terrific, for instance.

I actually do NOT like fighting Peach on FD by the way. You don't really have a CG advantage, you can't get away from her by using platforms, and you never get Nana's silly platform jumping AI to complicate Peach's Nana-****. It's also really tough to punish Peach when she lands for any reason, so that's another benefit of FD that you don't have. Platforms give you tremendous flexibility in fighting her whereas she gains very few benefits from platforms except maybe on her recovery, which you already had a really tough time stopping. I generally strike FD and Dreamland against her now, because Battlefield has a good stage geometry for fighting her, you get KO advantage on Yoshi's Story, and just because FoD is one of my favorite levels.

I pick FD as a strike last though because... well, most people strike it against me by default so I try and let them.
 
Top Bottom