Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Kirby Dragons]

What if Jiggly uses Puff Up and just falls on everybody. Only people fast enough to move or people who can teleport would escape. She's been overlooked so far, but Jiggly might actually have a chance to win. I mean that, combined with Sing and Cute Charm would be a pretty ****ing lethal combination. Let's assume Jigglypuff is outmatched, she could simply fly above the competition and wait for the last man standing to emerge, and put him to sleep, since he's most likely going to be fatigued. Couldn't she just destroy the weaker ones with Moon Blast and Flamethrower? Jigglypuff is pretty ****ing dangerous when you think about it. We're assuming Sonic has all 7 Emeralds?

Puff Up isn't canon.

Whether Sonic can stop time or not, he's fast enough to blitz Jigglypuff before she can use any moves.

 

[Reiga]

Well, if she used Cute Charm Sonic wouldn't even be able to attack her because he'd be too infatuated with her. It's not a move that requires contact, all Jigglypuff has to do is simply look at him and he falls for it. I don't even think Jigglypuff could technically BE killed, just deflated. Of course, nothing would be stopping her from simply Puffing herself back up. I imagine she'd be vulnerable during that time, and Sonic could just freeze her and keep her there, but there's really not much he can do if he falls under Cute Charm, cause Jiggly could just put him to sleep and end him. Anybody for that matter.

How do we even know Jigglypuff is a girl? I know it's quite obvious it is, but Jigglypuffs can be male or female, and Cute Charm DOES require contact, it is activated when the opponent uses a contact move.

What if Jiggly uses Puff Up and just falls on everybody. Only people fast enough to move or people who can teleport would escape. She's been overlooked so far, but Jiggly might actually have a chance to win. I mean that, combined with Sing and Cute Charm would be a pretty ****ing lethal combination. Let's assume Jigglypuff is outmatched, she could simply fly above the competition and wait for the last man standing to emerge, and put him to sleep, since he's most likely going to be fatigued. Couldn't she just destroy the weaker ones with Moon Blast and Flamethrower? Jigglypuff is pretty ****ing dangerous when you think about it. We're assuming Sonic has all 7 Emeralds?

Puff Up is totaly made up for Smash, it's not canon , sure, the Jiggs has Moonblast and Flamethrower, but she clearly has TERRIBLE stats that don't compensate it's movepool.

Also, Mega Mewtwo Y has Insomnia and doesn't have a gender and so can't be attracted.>

 

[MarioMeteor]

J

How do we even know Jigglypuff is a girl? I know it's quite obvious it is, but Jigglypuffs can be male or female, and Cute Charm DOES require contact, it is activated when the opponent uses a contact move.

Puff Up is totaly made up for Smash, it's not canon , sure, the Jiggs has Moonblast and Flamethrower, but she clearly has TERRIBLE stats that don't compensate it's movepool.

Also, Mega Mewtwo Y has Insomnia and doesn't have a gender and so can't be attracted.>

It's just assumed that it's female. And while Puff Up may not be canon Jigglypuff is still a balloon, so I'm pretty sure it's still capable of doing that. Her stats aren't THAT terrible and anyway it comes down to ability anyway, not stats. If anything wouldn't Cute Charm being physical actually work to its advantage since all of Sonic's moves require contact? And I'm pretty sure in the anime Jigglypuff used Cute Charm without touching somebody.

 

[Munomario777]

He can't stop time without a Chaos Emerald. And even then, has it been shown that he can completely freeze time? I'm pretty sure not even Shadow can completely stall time. Plus, it's not like that'd help much against Cute Charm.

We're assuming he has all seven Emeralds, though. Also, Shadow can freeze time (see the video I embedded recently, as well as Team Dark's Team Blast in Sonic Heroes), and both that and the teleportation Sonic (and Shadow) used in Sonic Adventure 2 are an aspect of the technique called "Chaos Control," which Sonic can use. Plus, Shadow freezes time with only one Emerald, so it's not at all a stretch to think that Sonic could at least do it with all seven. Even if he doesn't have time freezing, though, he's still fast enough to get the first move on pretty much any opponent (and still have time for a cheesy one-liner along the way). On the subject of Cute Charm, the effect of the move is that it gives a 30% chance that, when the user is hit by an attack where the opponent makes direct contact with the user (such as a punch, claw swipe, headbutt, etc.), the opponent will become infatuated. This status effect prevents the opponent from attacking 50% of the time. Besides Sonic being able to hit Jigglypuff before she even used this move in the first place, it also only has a 30% chance, and can't be used for, say, projectiles (such as Sonic's Sonic Wind attack). Even if it does succeed, it only blocks 50% of attacks. If Sonic attacked 100 times (which he can do pretty quickly, since his attacks are so swift), 50 of those would still hit Jigglypuff.

Speaking of getting the first move, by the way, there was some talk about Link's Chateau Romani drink from Majora's Mask, which grants him unlimited magic for three whole days. This would allow him to use the Magic Armor and the like indefinitely for unlimited invincibility. However, there's something people seem to be overlooking here, that being the amount of time it takes to actually drink the potion itself. It's only a few seconds, but it's still a time where Link is completely vulnerable (since he can't attack while drinking). The quickest characters could definitely knock the drink out of his hands before he could fully drink it to get the unlimited magic, and then it's just a matter of waiting until he uses up his limited supply.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

How do we even know Jigglypuff is a girl? I know it's quite obvious it is, but Jigglypuffs can be male or female, and Cute Charm DOES require contact, it is activated when the opponent uses a contact move.

Puff Up is totaly made up for Smash, it's not canon , sure, the Jiggs has Moonblast and Flamethrower, but she clearly has TERRIBLE stats that don't compensate it's movepool.

Also, Mega Mewtwo Y has Insomnia and doesn't have a gender and so can't be attracted.>

Insomnia only prevents sleep, but having no gender (or being female) would stop Jiggs, yeah. (Hilariously, there's one Pokémon that has no gender but can still learn Attract, Cryogonal.) And Attract is the ranged, 100% chance of infatuation.

As I've mentioned, if Jiggs holds a Focus Sash, then she can take one hit from Sonic and then use Attract if the Cute Charm doesn't go off. Even if Sonic is only immobilized once, that's enough time for Jiggs to use Gyro Ball, a move that is stronger when the user is slower than the opponent. Heck, Jiggs could just open up with Gyro Ball. I'm fairly certain that would OHKO Sonic.

And there's no Super Sonic here. Sonic would so totally underestimate Jiggs that he'd probably give her a free shot.

Speaking of getting the first move, by the way, there was some talk about Link's Chateau Romani drink from Majora's Mask, which grants him unlimited magic for three whole days. This would allow him to use the Magic Armor and the like indefinitely for unlimited invincibility. However, there's something people seem to be overlooking here, that being the amount of time it takes to actually drink the potion itself. It's only a few seconds, but it's still a time where Link is completely vulnerable (since he can't attack while drinking). The quickest characters could definitely knock the drink out of his hands before he could fully drink it to get the unlimited magic, and then it's just a matter of waiting until he uses up his limited supply.

Actually, I'm pretty sure time freezes when Link drinks his milk. And this can be explained as more than a gameplay mechanic, because the Goddess of Time is actively protecting Link in Majora's Mask. If the three days end before you go back in time, she pulls you back herself (and you lose any progress you may have made). It's not at all unreasonable to think that she freezes time when Link is most vulnerable.

 

[Munomario777]

And there's no Super Sonic here. Sonic would so totally underestimate Jiggs that he'd probably give her a free shot.

I can definitely see that happening, but I don't see what there is to "underestimate" about Jigglypuff in the first place.

Actually, I'm pretty sure time freezes when Link drinks his milk. And this can be explained as more than a gameplay mechanic, because the Goddess of Time is actively protecting Link in Majora's Mask. If the three days end before you go back in time, she pulls you back herself (and you lose any progress you may have made). It's not at all unreasonable to think that she freezes time when Link is most vulnerable.

It's never explicitly said in the games that that's what happens (AFAIK; please correct me if I'm mistaken). And even if it does, that's help from an ally. The Goddess of Time isn't an extension of Link's abilities/a tool that he uses. It's another character altogether helping him achieve his goal in that one game. Mario doesn't get a Yoshi, Pit doesn't get Palutena, Sonic doesn't get Tails, Bowser doesn't get his Koopa Troop, and Link doesn't get the Goddess of Time.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

I can definitely see that happening, but I don't see what there is to "underestimate" about Jigglypuff in the first place.

Lol true

It's never explicitly said in the games that that's what happens (AFAIK; please correct me if I'm mistaken).

Yeah, I looked it up, I was slightly mistaken. Tatl, the fairy in MM, cries out to the Goddess of Time for help, but it only actually occurs when you DO play the Ocarina.

And even if it does, that's help from an ally. The Goddess of Time isn't an extension of Link's abilities/a tool that he uses. It's another character altogether helping him achieve his goal in that one game. Mario doesn't get a Yoshi, Pit doesn't get Palutena, Sonic doesn't get Tails, Bowser doesn't get his Koopa Troop, and Link doesn't get the Goddess of Time.

Without the Goddess of Time, Link's Ocarina does nothing. I'd say "fair enough" to most of those, but this one seems too integral (as does Pit's power of flight, which requires Palutena).

 

[Munomario777]

Lol true


Yeah, I looked it up, I was slightly mistaken. Tatl, the fairy in MM, cries out to the Goddess of Time for help, but it only actually occurs when you DO play the Ocarina.


Without the Goddess of Time, Link's Ocarina does nothing. I'd say "fair enough" to most of those, but this one seems too integral (as does Pit's power of flight, which requires Palutena).

No worries.

Well, whether it's a major part in the gameplay or not, it's still not in the character's power. It's someone else doing it; thus, it shouldn't be treated as an innate ability of the character.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

^Ehhh, we'll have to disagree there. Gameplay's the most important for me, so I'd still give it to 'em.

Btw I totally forgot about Sonic's rings, so he can't get OHKOd anyway D:

 

[Munomario777]

^Ehhh, we'll have to disagree there. Gameplay's the most important for me, so I'd still give it to 'em.

Btw I totally forgot about Sonic's rings, so he can't get OHKOd anyway D:

Yes, gameplay is important to me as well, but it can be overridden in some cases (such as when the lore and gameplay don't match up due to technical/gameplay reasons, i.e. speed not being fully conveyed visually). In the case of time "freezing" when Link drinks something, that's like saying that nearly every character can freeze time because of the pause option (and no, the character doesn't always completely freeze, since inventory management while paused is in many games, such as Zelda). There's a point where we have to draw the line for gameplay. There's a perfectly logical explanation for the time freezing from a gameplay perspective, that being the fact that it would be extremely unfair if an enemy hit you while you were drinking a potion. There's no logical reason why Link drinking would cause time to stop from a canonical perspective; thus, we can conclude that it's for gameplay reasons and, thus, has no weight in this discussion.

 

[Meta_Ridley]

Yes, gameplay is important to me as well, but it can be overridden in some cases (such as when the lore and gameplay don't match up due to technical/gameplay reasons, i.e. speed not being fully conveyed visually). In the case of time "freezing" when Link drinks something, that's like saying that nearly every character can freeze time because of the pause option (and no, the character doesn't always completely freeze, since inventory management while paused is in many games, such as Zelda). There's a point where we have to draw the line for gameplay. There's a perfectly logical explanation for the time freezing from a gameplay perspective, that being the fact that it would be extremely unfair if an enemy hit you while you were drinking a potion. There's no logical reason why Link drinking would cause time to stop from a canonical perspective; thus, we can conclude that it's for gameplay reasons and, thus, has no weight in this discussion.

Oh, yeah, that's fine.

Not freezing time when drinking potions is A-OK with me. Disregarding the Ocarina or Pit's three-minute flight entirely I would argue against.

 

[Munomario777]

Oh, yeah, that's fine.

Not freezing time when drinking potions is A-OK with me. Disregarding the Ocarina or Pit's three-minute flight entirely I would argue against.

Ah, okay. Glad we're on the same page.

I'm not disregarding the Ocarina; I'm saying that Link shouldn't be able to freeze time while using it if he's not the one actually freezing time (which he's not; that would be the Goddess of Time). Same with the Power of Flight (it's five minutes, by the way ); canonically, Pit is a flightless angel, but Palutena's power and assistance lets him fly for five minutes. The idol description for this is as follows: "Palutena's divine power keeping Pit aloft during his air battles. Because Pit can't actually fly, Palutena controls the flight path and destination, ensuring he lands before the power's roughly five-minute time limit expires and Pit falls." Pit doesn't possess Palutena's divine power; thus, he shouldn't be able to use it in battle.

EDIT: Just realized you were probably talking about a song of the Ocarina (Song of Time, etc.), rather than something similar to the drinking happening, where time would freeze while actually playing the song. In that case, it's a bit iffy, but I'd say it's fine, since it's the Ocarina item that's initiating it.

EDIT 2: Well, then again, it is the Goddess actually performing it, so it isn't actually in Link's power. This is a bit tricky...

 

[pupNapoleon]

Speaking of getting the first move, by the way, there was some talk about Link's Chateau Romani drink from Majora's Mask, which grants him unlimited magic for three whole days. This would allow him to use the Magic Armor and the like indefinitely for unlimited invincibility. However, there's something people seem to be overlooking here, that being the amount of time it takes to actually drink the potion itself. It's only a few seconds, but it's still a time where Link is completely vulnerable (since he can't attack while drinking). The quickest characters could definitely knock the drink out of his hands before he could fully drink it to get the unlimited magic, and then it's just a matter of waiting until he uses up his limited supply.

If we are going to hold onto such real world principles as 'drinking a vile,' I think it is important to note Sonic would have to hold all of these Emeralds (or anyone would have to hold their arsenal), which invalidates any of these arguments again, anyway.

 

[Munomario777]

If we are going to hold onto such real world principles as 'drinking a vile,' I think it is important to note Sonic would have to hold all of these Emeralds (or anyone would have to hold their arsenal), which invalidates any of these arguments again, anyway.

The difference is that Link is actually shown drinking the Romani.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I can definitely see that happening, but I don't see what there is to "underestimate" about Jigglypuff in the first place.

It's a pink balloon with cat ears. Name me one thing more fearsome than that.

 

[Munomario777]

It's a pink balloon with cat ears. Name me one thing more fearsome than that.

 

[Etc_Guy]

It's a pink balloon with cat ears. Name me one thing more fearsome than that.

Dispenser + Panic Attack + Times 10 = a weapon that not even GODS are stupid enough to come up with.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Of you questioning its might.

 

[Munomario777]

View attachment 35092 Of you questioning its might.

 

[Reiga]

Insomnia only prevents sleep, but having no gender (or being female) would stop Jiggs, yeah. (Hilariously, there's one Pokémon that has no gender but can still learn Attract, Cryogonal.) And Attract is the ranged, 100% chance of infatuation.

As I've mentioned, if Jiggs holds a Focus Sash, then she can take one hit from Sonic and then use Attract if the Cute Charm doesn't go off. Even if Sonic is only immobilized once, that's enough time for Jiggs to use Gyro Ball, a move that is stronger when the user is slower than the opponent. Heck, Jiggs could just open up with Gyro Ball. I'm fairly certain that would OHKO Sonic.

I mentioned Insomnia because Jigglypuff's main move is Sing, and Insomnia negates the effects of sleep.
Also, since his/her entrance in Smash is via Pokéball, does that mean Jiggs is owned by a trainer? If so, and since each character is at full power, then the trainer has 99 Full Restores and Max Revives, so if the trainer has more Pokémon he can just spam Max Revives if Jiggs faints.

 

[Munomario777]

I mentioned Insomnia because Jigglypuff's main move is Sing, and Insomnia negates the effects of sleep.
Also, since his/her entrance in Smash is via Pokéball, does that mean Jiggs is owned by a trainer? If so, and since each character is at full power, then the trainer has 99 Full Restores and Max Revives, so if the trainer has more Pokémon he can just spam Max Revives if Jiggs faints.

I'd say the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon are the only ones with a trainer. Also, I think it was agreed on that each fighter would have one of each consumable item (this includes power-ups, health items, etc.).

 

[ShadowLBlue]

In Kirby Triple Deluxe, Kirby completely swallows Flowery Woods who's about 6x Kirby's height, and yes I consider Young Link the one from OoT and MM

Ok then, he uses Bunny Ears instead of Pegasus Boots and throws bombs at Kirby. Bunny Ears also increases his speed, although not as much as Pegasus Boots, but it should be enough of an upgrade to outrun Kirby's Hypernova sucking.

Speaking of getting the first move, by the way, there was some talk about Link's Chateau Romani drink from Majora's Mask, which grants him unlimited magic for three whole days. This would allow him to use the Magic Armor and the like indefinitely for unlimited invincibility. However, there's something people seem to be overlooking here, that being the amount of time it takes to actually drink the potion itself. It's only a few seconds, but it's still a time where Link is completely vulnerable (since he can't attack while drinking). The quickest characters could definitely knock the drink out of his hands before he could fully drink it to get the unlimited magic, and then it's just a matter of waiting until he uses up his limited supply.

Meh, it took him literally like 2.5 seconds to drink it (not counting the exaggerated pull out).
But to address your comment, there's no reason he can't toss on the Magic Armor, which he changes into in like an instant, and then use the Chateau Romani.

If we are going to hold onto such real world principles as 'drinking a vile,' I think it is important to note Sonic would have to hold all of these Emeralds (or anyone would have to hold their arsenal), which invalidates any of these arguments again, anyway.

There's a Youtube video that conveniently has clips of all his Super State transformations in the 3D games.
Sonic Adventures: About 7 seconds. All were held.
SA2: About 18 seconds, although Shadow was also powering up so that may explain the large time bump. Not held, floated around in a circle.
Heroes: About 8 Seconds. Floated in a circle.
Sonic 2006: skipped it because he didn't turn himself Super since he was dead during process. However it took like 5-6 seconds for him to give his energy to Silver and Shadow to make them go Super.
Unleashed: About 3 seconds, and he didn't hold them. In fact he kind of summoned (I assume from his "pockets").

There were more, but unleashed had the quickest time (note the video didn't include any 2d games).
The better question about Super Sonic imo is, can he be hurt during the transformation sequence? Or, can an Emerald be snatched away?
Whenever he transforms there's no enemy nearby to try and interrupt the process, except for Generations. Of course you could argue Eggman was cocky and didn't think even two Super Sonic's could beat the TIme Eater.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Like I said before, can Jigglypuff actually die? I mean, with its elastic skin, it'd probably be durable as hell, too. She has a surprisingly large amount of things going for her.

Does this?

 

[Meta_Ridley]

I mentioned Insomnia because Jigglypuff's main move is Sing, and Insomnia negates the effects of sleep.

Oh, right. Sing is such a horrible move, I usually just consider it to be negligible. But yeah, Insomnia would be a factor.

Also, I hadn't even been considering the Mega Mewtwos. I think my vote's for Mega Mewtwo Y being the strongest Smasher.

 

[Munomario777]

Meh, it took him literally like 2.5 seconds to drink it (not counting the exaggerated pull out).
But to address your comment, there's no reason he can't toss on the Magic Armor, which he changes into in like an instant, and then use the Chateau Romani.

Yes, and that's 2.5 whole seconds where he's vulnerable. Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch in Smash takes, what, one second? and it still leaves him wide open.
True, but as Dyrn pointed out previously, it doesn't seem to cover his face, which would be a weak spot. Also, each of Link's Magic Armors has a weakness (or two). The Twilight Princess version leaves him open in the facial area, and it drains about two Rupees per second, as well as twelve when he's hit. It also weighs him down and stops protecting Link when he runs out of Rupees. The Wind Waker version doesn't leave him open in the face (it basically forms a force field around him). However, this one is also limited by Rupees, as is often overlooked. In the remake of Wind Waker for the Wii U, Wind Waker HD, the Magic Armor drains Rupees when Link is hit, similarly to the Twilight Princess version, and will also run out when his Rupee count hits zero, effectively changing his health bar from heart containers to Rupees. Granted, he can hold up to 1,000 of them, but he's still not invincible forever.

There's a Youtube video that conveniently has clips of all his Super State transformations in the 3D games.
Sonic Adventures: About 7 seconds. All were held.
SA2: About 18 seconds, although Shadow was also powering up so that may explain the large time bump. Not held, floated around in a circle.
Heroes: About 8 Seconds. Floated in a circle.
Sonic 2006: skipped it because he didn't turn himself Super since he was dead during process. However it took like 5-6 seconds for him to give his energy to Silver and Shadow to make them go Super.
Unleashed: About 3 seconds, and he didn't hold them. In fact he kind of summoned (I assume from his "pockets").

There were more, but unleashed had the quickest time (note the video didn't include any 2d games).
The better question about Super Sonic imo is, can he be hurt during the transformation sequence? Or, can an Emerald be snatched away?
Whenever he transforms there's no enemy nearby to try and interrupt the process, except for Generations. Of course you could argue Eggman was cocky and didn't think even two Super Sonic's could beat the TIme Eater.

Actually, Sonic can transform much quicker than that (such as in Sonic 3, where it's nearly instantaneous). Nice research, though. To (somewhat) answer your questions, I'd imagine since he's becoming invincible, he would be invincible during those longer transformations (the best way to test this would be to go into Colors or something and transform right above an enemy). As for snatching the Emeralds, since in the video I just linked to, the Emeralds aren't even visible, it shouldn't be a concern.

 

[Golden Sun]

No one's talking about Shulk or how Meta Knight can manipulate space and move at the speed of light and break the sound barrier with his sword(that's why his sword is so fast and has a breaking metal noise, Sakurai actually implements some canon detail)

 

[Munomario777]

No one's talking about Shulk or how Meta Knight can manipulate space and move at the speed of light and break the sound barrier with his sword(that's why his sword is so fast and has a breaking metal noise, Sakurai actually implements some canon detail)

Well, Shulk basically told Alvis to do "that" thing at the end of Xenoblade, and I haven't found a source for those abilities of Meta Knight's; it would be appreciated if you could provide one. Also, all three of those things have already been done by a certain character.

 

[Golden Sun]

Well, Shulk basically told Alvis to do "that" thing at the end of Xenoblade, and I haven't found a source for those abilities of Meta Knight's; it would be appreciated if you could provide one. Also, all three of those things have already been done by a certain character.

Dimensional Cape
Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape allows him to manipulate space, and is a powerful weapon in its own right. His signature cape never received its official name, until relatively recently, much like Galaxia.


Galaxia

Meta Knight wielding his sacred sword Galaxia in Kirby: Right Back at Ya!.
The sword Galaxia is a solid gold blade with a ruby embedded in its hilt, with anywhere between zero to six spikes protruding from its sharp edges. In earlier games, the spikes were absent from Meta Knight's then-unnamed sword.
In the games, Galaxia is capable of shooting out sword beams and standard sword moves. In Meta Knightmare Ultra, it absorbs the energy of a defeated foe, allowing Meta Knight to use special actions like the Mach Tornado, Meta Quick and Heal.
In the anime the sword has sacred origins, having been created by a race of light and a fire god.


stuff taken from Kirby's wiki


Abilities: Meta Quick, Mach Tornado, Healing powers, Manipulate space, Breaking sound barrier from sword(from SSBB, that's why you hear a metal clanking noise),Inhaling(its been said that MK wears that mask to not show his "soft" side so people wouldn't take him so serious with his cute look, this seems highly reasonable)
im still fishing out some stuff, brb gonna edit

 

[Munomario777]

Dimensional Cape
Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape allows him to manipulate space, and is a powerful weapon in its own right. His signature cape never received its official name, until relatively recently, much like Galaxia.

In the Kirby games, the Dimensional Cape is only used to teleport short distances. The only time it does anything else is in the Smash games, which aren't canon.

Galaxia

Meta Knight wielding his sacred sword Galaxia in Kirby: Right Back at Ya!.
The sword Galaxia is a solid gold blade with a ruby embedded in its hilt, with anywhere between zero to six spikes protruding from its sharp edges. In earlier games, the spikes were absent from Meta Knight's then-unnamed sword.
In the games, Galaxia is capable of shooting out sword beams and standard sword moves. In Meta Knightmare Ultra, it absorbs the energy of a defeated foe, allowing Meta Knight to use special actions like the Mach Tornado, Meta Quick and Heal.
In the anime the sword has sacred origins, having been created by a race of light and a fire god.

Fair enough.

stuff taken from Kirby's wiki


Abilities: Meta Quick, Mach Tornado, Healing powers, Manipulate space, Breaking sound barrier from sword(from SSBB, that's why you hear a metal clanking noise),Inhaling(its been said that MK wears that mask to not show his "soft" side so people wouldn't take him so serious with his cute look, this seems highly reasonable)
im still fishing out some stuff, brb gonna edit

I haven't found any source for the sword's speed, and again, Smash isn't canon, but it can be used to back up things already demonstrated in the main games, such as Yoshi making eggs out of his enemies. Likewise, since Meta Knight hasn't inhaled in the Kirby games, there's no reason to believe he can just because he looks like Kirby without his mask; by that logic, Jigglypuff can inhale too, since she looks similar to Kirby.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

Yes, and that's 2.5 whole seconds where he's vulnerable. Captain Falcon's Falcon Punch in Smash takes, what, one second? and it still leaves him wide open.
True, but as Dyrn pointed out previously, it doesn't seem to cover his face, which would be a weak spot. Also, each of Link's Magic Armors has a weakness (or two). The Twilight Princess version leaves him open in the facial area, and it drains about two Rupees per second, as well as twelve when he's hit. It also weighs him down and stops protecting Link when he runs out of Rupees. The Wind Waker version doesn't leave him open in the face (it basically forms a force field around him). However, this one is also limited by Rupees, as is often overlooked. In the remake of Wind Waker for the Wii U, Wind Waker HD, the Magic Armor drains Rupees when Link is hit, similarly to the Twilight Princess version, and will also run out when his Rupee count hits zero, effectively changing his health bar from heart containers to Rupees. Granted, he can hold up to 1,000 of them, but he's still not invincible forever.

Actually, Sonic can transform much quicker than that (such as in Sonic 3, where it's nearly instantaneous). Nice research, though. To (somewhat) answer your questions, I'd imagine since he's becoming invincible, he would be invincible during those longer transformations (the best way to test this would be to go into Colors or something and transform right above an enemy). As for snatching the Emeralds, since in the video I just linked to, the Emeralds aren't even visible, it shouldn't be a concern.

Yea, I'm just saying that 2.5 seconds is only a big deal with certain characters or if they start the match really close to each other. And I don't agree that the armor leaves his face vulnerable, but even if it does, there's no reason he can't simply turn around while drinking the Romani potion.
And Composite Link/Composite Toon Link has the option of just using the Magic Armor from Wind Waker (which is a barrier). Both of those can hold a max of 999,999.

And ok, like I said that video only showed 3D stuff but I figured there was a quicker transformation sequence in an early game.

BTW, since certain enemies (albeit all Final bosses) can damage Super Sonic (well, by damage I mean speed up his ring consumption), not to mention Eggman's machine which could trap him and depower his emeralds, should we consider not treating him as invincible?

 

[Munomario777]

Yea, I'm just saying that 2.5 seconds is only a big deal with certain characters or if they start the match really close to each other. And I don't agree that the armor leaves his face vulnerable, but even if it does, there's no reason he can't simply turn around while drinking the Romani potion.
And Composite Link/Composite Toon Link has the option of just using the Magic Armor from Wind Waker (which is a barrier). Both of those can hold a max of 999,999.

And ok, like I said that video only showed 3D stuff but I figured there was a quicker transformation sequence in an early game.

BTW, since certain enemies (albeit all Final bosses) can damage Super Sonic (well, by damage I mean speed up his ring consumption), not to mention Eggman's machine which could trap him and depower his emeralds, should we consider not treating him as invincible?

Yes, but those certain characters would give him quite a bit of trouble.
The model for the armor doesn't cover his face. If he turns around, the opponent could simply hit him from behind.
Yes, I pointed that out in my post. As for the Rupee count, sorry, my bad. I didn't find a source for the 999,999 limit, though. Twilight Princess Link can hold 1,000, and in Wind Waker, the maximum wallet upgrades let him hold up to 5,000, and those are the only games that Magic Armor ever appeared in. Anyway, the point still stands that it's just a matter of time, however. If the opponent can avoid/tough it through Link's attacks and hit him enough times to drain his Rupee counter, then it will level the playing field drastically.

Yeah. The transformation sequence was really fast in the older games; I'm guessing they slowed it down for emphasis in later games.

Hmm... Well, we should take into account what type of attack he's being damaged by. The only things that have been shown to damage Super Sonic (as in taking away Rings) in an all-out battle (where he's being serious and not joking around, which can partially explain the scene in Unleashed) are gods which exist in all time periods at once (about ten rings per hit), deities of darkness and destruction living inside the earth's core (the battle operates on a life bar system rather than Rings depleting over time, so it's uncertain how much damage this does, but let's say ten Rings, since that's how much the omnipotent deity does), and a machine specifically designed to harness Chaos Emerald energy. If any characters have those properties, then yes, he can be harmed in this scenario.

 

[Golden Sun]

Wait, isn't Young Link not Link at all? since Young Link is basically from Majoras Mask, and he's the Hero's shade, the first ever Link who could talk in game besides the adventures of link game, The Hero's shade is young link so the link from twilight princess which is basically the regular links in almost all the games, so I guess people who say Link with Fierce Deity mask will win, but that's actually young link and not link.

 

[Munomario777]

Wait, isn't Young Link not Link at all? since Young Link is basically from Majoras Mask, and he's the Hero's shade, the first ever Link who could talk in game besides the adventures of link game, The Hero's shade is young link so the link from twilight princess which is basically the regular links in almost all the games, so I guess people who say Link with Fierce Deity mask will win, but that's actually young link and not link.

Each game has a different Link (or incarnation thereof). There's Skyward Sword Link, LttP Link, ALBW Link, Twillight Princess Link (AKA /), Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass Link (AKA /), etc. Young Link in Melee () is the Link from Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time (young version). For the sake of this discussion, however, we're using a "composite" Link, with all the tools, techniques, etc. of each Link from each Zelda game.

 

[Golden Sun]

Each game has a different Link (or incarnation thereof). There's Skyward Sword Link, LttP Link, ALBW Link, Twillight Princess Link (AKA /), Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass Link (AKA /), etc. Young Link in Melee () is the Link from Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time (young version). For the sake of this discussion, however, we're using a "composite" Link, with all the tools, techniques, etc. of each Link from each Zelda game.

Still, it was mind blowing, when people first find out that Link actually talks but in a different form or something.
It was also amazing how Sakurai made a stage for Spirit Tracks, my favorite game and my first ever Zelda game(I wasn't in Zelda that much), that's how im more into TL than L, didn't know Sakurai thought ST was getting love.

 

[Nerdicon]

Yes, but those certain characters would give him quite a bit of trouble.
Hmm... Well, we should take into account what type of attack he's being damaged by. The only things that have been shown to damage Super Sonic (as in taking away Rings) in an all-out battle (where he's being serious and not joking around, which can partially explain the scene in Unleashed) are gods which exist in all time periods at once (about ten rings per hit), deities of darkness and destruction living inside the earth's core (the battle operates on a life bar system rather than Rings depleting over time, so it's uncertain how much damage this does, but let's say ten Rings, since that's how much the omnipotent deity does), and a machine specifically designed to harness Chaos Emerald energy. If any characters have those properties, then yes, he can be harmed in this scenario.

Let's not forget the instance in Sonic Rush where he could be hurt by missiles in the secret boss fight. By comparison Burning Blaze could only be damaged by a black hole, but Sonic could be damaged by missiles. To be fair, the mech in question had absorbed the energy of the Sol Emeralds, but usually the chaos energy takes the form of energy. But I suppose the emeralds could affect the missiles. Anyway, I don't think Super Sonic is invincible and that an extremely powerful attack can hurt him (PSI Rockin', Crash, or the Phazon Beam to name a few)

 

[Munomario777]

Let's not forget the instance in Sonic Rush where he could be hurt by missiles in the secret boss fight. By comparison Burning Blaze could only be damaged by a black hole, but Sonic could be damaged by missiles. To be fair, the mech in question had absorbed the energy of the Sol Emeralds, but usually the chaos energy takes the form of energy. But I suppose the emeralds could affect the missiles. Anyway, I don't think Super Sonic is invincible and that an extremely powerful attack can hurt him (PSI Rockin', Crash, or the Phazon Beam to name a few)

Those don't take any Rings away; they just knock you back a bit.

 

[Golden Sun]

There are so many stuff Sakurai can do with SSB4 that he doesn't even have to work on, Nintendo wants money? make a SSB short clip anime 3:00 minutes long with 5 episodes, that would really make people pay money. Sakurai can just let his small team make that up.

 

[Nerdicon]

Those don't take any Rings away; they just knock you back a bit.

Actually the missiles do hurt Super Sonic (source) but that brings up another question, how does Sonic's whole ring system factor into this? Should he just start with X number of rings or should we just give him regular health for conveniences sake?

 

[Munomario777]

Actually the missiles do hurt Super Sonic (source) but that brings up another question, how does Sonic's whole ring system factor into this? Should he just start with X number of rings or should we just give him regular health for conveniences sake?

Ah, okay. I was thinking of something else, my bad. On the subject of Rings, I think we should use them here, since A) it gives us an accurate health system for us to use (i.e. we know X attack takes away Y Rings), B) it doesn't cause any issues that a regular health bar wouldn't (translating damage from one game to the other would happen with a regular health bar as well), and C) it's one of his most unique attributes (not many characters have their life bar fly out of them, ready to be collected again).

As for the amount of Rings, we're giving all characters maximum ammo and health, and Rings count as both. Now, in the main gameplay, Sonic can usually hold up to 999 Rings. However, in Sonic Adventure 2, there is a mode where you can have a pet Chao, and, playing as one of the playable characters (including Sonic, of course), train it, feed it, and, most importantly for this discussion, buy it things. These things are bought in a store known as the Black Market using Rings. The most expensive item listed in the Black Market is Maria Robotnik's Menu Voice (a skin for the game's menus), costing a whopping 30,000 Rings. Naturally, the characters (including Sonic) can hold that many Rings in order to buy the item with. And yes, the health item Rings and the currency Rings are the same thing, since the Rings collected in levels for health also carry over to the Chao Garden (as well as carrying over in other games, such as Sonic 2006 and Sonic Unleashed).

Anyway, this would allow him to stay in Super Sonic form for about eight hours and twenty minutes (not factoring in damage, of course), based on the fact that Super Sonic consumes one Ring per second. While it might not be the three days Link can stay in his Magic Armor, I'd say it's more than enough for someone of Sonic's speed to deplete his Rupee count (let alone defeat the other fighters).

 

[Nerdicon]

Ah, okay. I was thinking of something else, my bad. On the subject of Rings, I think we should use them here, since A) it gives us an accurate health system for us to use (i.e. we know X attack takes away Y Rings), B) it doesn't cause any issues that a regular health bar wouldn't (translating damage from one game to the other would happen with a regular health bar as well), and C) it's one of his most unique attributes (not many characters have their life bar fly out of them, ready to be collected again).

As for the amount of Rings, we're giving all characters maximum ammo and health, and Rings count as both. Now, in the main gameplay, Sonic can usually hold up to 999 Rings. However, in Sonic Adventure 2, there is a mode where you can have a pet Chao, and, playing as one of the playable characters (including Sonic, of course), train it, feed it, and, most importantly for this discussion, buy it things. These things are bought in a store known as the Black Market using Rings. The most expensive item listed in the Black Market is Maria Robotnik's Menu Voice (a skin for the game's menus), costing a whopping 30,000 Rings. Naturally, the characters (including Sonic) can hold that many Rings in order to buy the item with. And yes, the health item Rings and the currency Rings are the same thing, since the Rings collected in levels for health also carry over to the Chao Garden (as well as carrying over in other games, such as Sonic 2006 and Sonic Unleashed).

Anyway, this would allow him to stay in Super Sonic form for about eight hours and twenty minutes (not factoring in damage, of course), based on the fact that Super Sonic consumes one Ring per second. While it might not be the three days Link can stay in his Magic Armor, I'd say it's more than enough for someone of Sonic's speed to deplete his Rupee count (let alone defeat the other fighters).

The original Wind Waker magic armor used magic and not rupees, and also creates a barrier as opposed to just acting as impenetrable armor. For whatever reason, the Magic Armor from WWHD used rupees, weird.