Who will come back and who will get cut?

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Gregster101

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#1
With every Smash game, there's always speculation about the roster, mainly as to what characters will return and what characters will get cut. Assuming this is a port, it's safe to say that everyone from Smash 4 will return (even the clones and the third party characters). If this is a new game however, there will probably be a few cuts. For this topic, I'm mainly going to be talking about characters who've been cut before in the past and the new characters from Smash 4.

Characters who've been cut before:

Let's get the obvious one out of the way, the Ice Climbers. Sakurai has stated before the Ice Climbers were fully functioning in the Wii U version at one point, but there was difficulty getting them to work properly in the 3DS version. As Sakurai wanted both versions to have an identical roster, the Ice Climbers were sadly cut to avoid having a version exclusive character. Since we know that the new Smash game will only be on the Switch, which is more powerful than both the 3DS and Wii U, it's pretty likely that we could see the Ice Climbers come back.

I also have a feeling that we may have Wolf return. He was popularly requested to come back during the Smash Ballot, and it was pretty surprising that he wasn't part of Smash 4's final dlc. Since Wolf is pretty similar to both Fox and Falco, and Sakurai probably still has his Brawl assets, I can only assume it wouldn't be that hard to bring Wolf back.

Now onto the Pokemon characters. I think it's safe to say Mewtwo will come back. He was the first DLC character announced for Smash 4 much to the excitement of many people, and he was very close to being in Brawl before being cut. He was even planned to be in the original Smash 64, meaning he was planned to be in every Smash game. Knowing how much outcry there was when Mewtwo was cut in Brawl, it wouldn't be wise to cut him again.

With Charizard becoming his own character in Smash 4, it's unlikely that the Pokemon Trainer will come back. Now would Squirtle and Ivysaur return as their own characters? Probably not, and I say this as someone who enjoyed both Squirtle and Ivysaur more than Charizard back in Brawl. Greninja did a good job representing Water starters in Smash 4, and they'll probably add Decidueye to represent Grass starters, so I don't think we'll be getting either Squirtle, Ivysaur, or the Pokemon Trainer back at all sadly.

Pichu will never come back. Next

I have a feeling that Roy may come back. Similar to Mewtwo, there was a lot of rejoicing from fans when he came despite being yet another Fire Emblem character. Like Marth, his inclusion in Melee played a big part in the Fire Emblem series getting localized starting with Blazing Sword. He's seen a resurgence in popularity with Fire Emblem Heroes if his high position in the first Choose Your Legends poll is any indication, and the director of Shadows of Valentia has stated the next Fire Emblem game he'd like to remake is Binding Blade. If anything, it'd may be a good idea to keep Roy around that way when a Binding Blade remake eventually gets announced, Smash fans will be interested in playing it. Plus, he's different enough from Marth in Smash 4 to warrant his own slot, unlike Lucina who I'll talk about later.

Similar to Mewtwo and Roy, I think Lucas may come back. He was brought back due to fan demand as well, and was the second DLC character announced after Mewtwo. Add to having a similar moveset like Ness, and it's likely that Lucas will come back.

Now for the super big one, Snake. As much as I would love to see Snake come back, it's very unlikely that he will. The reason Snake was even added in the first place was due to Sakurai's friendship with Hideo Kojima, the creator of the Metal Gear series, who wanted his son to see one of his characters in a Super Smash Bros. game. Kojima even requested Snake to appear in Melee, but it was too late in development to add him. Kojima had a falling out with Konami and left to form his own independent studio, resulting in the cancellation of his Silent Hills game. Despite this, Konami still owns the rights to Metal Gear, so Snake could still come back if Konami wanted him to. Considering Sakurai's friendship with Kojima tho, I don't think he would allow out of respect for his friend. Sakurai seems like the guy to uphold his friendship with Kojima.

Newcomers from Smash 4:

To get this started, the newcomers that I believe will return include Rosalina, Bowser Jr., Villager, Little Mac, Shulk, Duck Hunt, Greninja, Palutena, Mega Man, Pac-Man, the Miis, and Bayonetta.

I know, Bayonetta is hated by the Smash community because of how stupidly broken she is. But with the re-release of Bayonetta 1 and 2 for the Switch, as well the announcement of Bayonetta 3 being developed exclusively for the Switch, it would be a poor business decision to cut Bayonetta.

Wii Fit Trainer I think is the most in danger of getting cut among the first party newcomers. Nintendo's been trying to get away from the Wii brand with the Switch, so it would hamper Wii Fit Trainer's chances of returning. I know relevancy for the most part hasn't really played a part in certain characters getting in (i.e. Mr. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt), and I wouldn't be opposed to the Wii Fit Trainer returning, but if they do get cut, I wouldn't really be surprised.

Putting my hatred against Corrin aside, I'm pretty torn on whether or not he'll come back. He was only added to advertise Fates, and he does have somewhat unique moveset compared to some of the other Fire Emblem characters, so it would be kind of a waste to remove him. On the other hand, it would save up a spot for a new Fire Emblem character, like say Alm or Celica from Echoes, or whoever the protagonist of FE Switch. Not to mention, unlike Roy, who has the status of a veteran from Melee, Corrin wasn't really embraced by either the Smash community or Fire Emblem community upon his announcement. It's hard to say whether or not Corrin will come back, but part of me feels like they won't.

Speaking of Fire Emblem, I do believe that one of the Fire Emblem Awakening characters, Robin and Lucina, will be cut in the next game. What I would do is that I would keep Robin in his own slot, and made Lucina an alternate costume of Marth, like she was originally intended to be. This way we can have both characters without there being too many Fire Emblem characters on the character select screen. Robin has a very unique moveset from all the other Fire Emblem characters, what with him having tomes and the weapon durability mechanic. Lucina on the other hand...is just another Marth clone. I know Lucina is insanely popular, but I feel like we can get away with making her an alternate costume of Marth.

Speaking of Lucina, that's pretty much what I would do with Dark Pit and Dr. Mario, make them alternate costumes of Pit and Mario. Although Dark Pit does seem like the most likely clone to stay in his own slot, due to being Sakurai's baby and him not liking the idea of Dark Pit using the Three Sacred Treasures as final smash. If Dark Pit does stay in own slot, I hope they differentiate his moveset from Pit by giving him some of his weapons from Uprising.

Now onto the other two DLC third party characters, Cloud and Ryu. Of the third party characters in Smash 4, Cloud I think is the most likely to get cut. Sakurai had to go through literal hell just to get Square Enix's permission to have him appear in Smash, and compared to the other Third Party characters, there's very little Final Fantasy representation in Smash 4, what with having only two songs on Midgar and only three trophys (all being Cloud). On the other hand, it would be a good idea to keep Cloud to advertise Final Fantasy 7 Remake on the off chance it gets ported to the Switch after it's not longer a Timed Exclusive for the PS4. Ryu I think is more likely to stay compared to Cloud. Ultra Street Fighter 2 did surprisingly well on the Switch, and the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection is coming to the Switch, so I think Ryu has a chance to come back. Ideally I'd love to see both Cloud and Ryu come back, but if they don't, I wouldn't really be surprised.

And that's pretty much predictions on who will return and who will get cut. What do you guys think? Feel free to reply below
 

DeiSakuChris

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I don't know either
#2
I honestly believe that the three true clones of Smash 4 will stay in their own slots. Dark Pit having the most chance of being Luigified a bit.
Corrin will come back, and there won't be a FE newcomer.
All the Smash 4 newcomers that were in the base game will come back, even Wii Fit Trainer.
Cloud will be the Snake of this gen.

Wolf, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy will be back. Ivysaur & Squirtle won't.
 
Joined
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#3
Cut Lucina and Dr. Mario to make them alt costumes
Change Dark Pit drastically, uprising has plenty of weapons to choose from.
Ice climbers and wolf will be back.

And although unpopular I think Sheik should be cut and replaced by Impa with a similar moveset.
Roy should also be cut and replaced with a new more unique fire emblem rep.
Toon Link and Link should be cut and mixed into a blender to make a “Classic Link” to contrast the new breath of the wild Link.
 

King9999

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#4
  • All the characters from 64 are safe
  • Ice Climbers will return
  • Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Lucina, Lucas, Mewtwo, Roy are cut
  • Pokemon Trainer will return, but will have new Pokemon. This means Charizard can return.
  • Greninja is cut. Will be replaced by someone from Ultra Sun/Moon
  • All 3rd parties are cut except Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man
  • Bayo will return. I don't consider her to be 3rd party since she's co-owned by Nintendo
  • Ganondorf will be revamped, and is now based on Hyrule Warriors
  • I guess Wolf could return, but if he does they should make him significantly different from Fox and Falco.
  • ZSS and Sheik will remain separated from Samus and Zelda respectively (it's better this way).
  • Shulk will return alongside Rex (you know it's gonna happen).
  • Wii Fit Trainer is cut
  • Duck Hunt will return
  • Miis are cut
  • I think Corrin will return despite only being in the game to promote Fates. Corrin is unique among the FE characters, and it would be a shame to take him/her out.
  • Game & Watch is in
  • ROB will return
  • Snake is never coming back. TBH, getting tired of seeing his name pop up.
  • Anyone from Smash 4 I didn't mention, just assume that they are returning.
 
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Jetsurge

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#5
I think at least 1 of the FE characters will be cut, probably Lucina, maybe Corrin too since he was an advertisement. There's just too many of them.

Greninja will stay, he was voted the #1 Pokemon in Japan and remember everyone thought Lucario would but cut and he wasn't.
 

DNeon

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#6
  • All 3rd parties are cut except Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man
  • Bayo will return. I don't consider her to be 3rd party since she's co-owned by Nintendo
Isn't it just faster to name Cloud and Ryu?

Also anyone saying Greninja will be cut has no idea of his popularity. Hell hes not even lost relevance with Ash's Greninja being the reward for completing the demo for Sun and Moon
 

biigshaq

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Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Messages
20
#7
Smash game will only be on the Switch, which is more powerful than both the 3DS and Wii U, it's pretty likely that we could see the Ice Climbers come back.
I feel it is Nintendo's intentions to allow single joy con play, and I feel like it would run into similar issues with Ice climbers, despite not exactly being the issue

Since Wolf is pretty similar to both Fox and Falco, and Sakurai probably still has his Brawl assets, I can only assume it wouldn't be that hard to bring Wolf back.
I hope Ninty knows by now that there aren't too many clone fans out there. Most people want to have more "fresh" characters, and that's why I feel Wolf won't make it

Pichu will never come back. Next
Yup

Wii Fit Trainer I think is the most in danger of getting cut among the first party newcomers. Nintendo's been trying to get away from the Wii brand with the Switch, so it would hamper Wii Fit Trainer's chances of returning. I know relevancy for the most part hasn't really played a part in certain characters getting in (i.e. Mr. Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt), and I wouldn't be opposed to the Wii Fit Trainer returning, but if they do get cut, I wouldn't really be surprised.
I mean, ROB was a huge failure for Ninty, right? He's still around
 

Just a random scrub

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#8
A heavily condensed version of a previous post on a different thread. My format is gonna be similar to Gregster's original post.

SSB4 NEWCOMERS

Wii Fit Trainer is very unlikely to return, and will probably be the first to go after the clones (more on them later). I'm pretty sure Nintendo's said they aren't making any more Wii Fit games, and besides, she was never really a very relevant character, nor a popular choice, so no one would really be upset if she were axed. Aside from that, I'd also say Duck Hunt Dog would not return, seeing how he's done very little even after his Smash 4 appearance, and characters like that generally don't have the best luck when it comes to returning.

When it comes to Mario characters, I believe Rosalina and Luma will be axed in favor of the more unique Bowser Jr; as of late, her popularity in the mainstream Mario series has dipped (she was nowhere to be found at all in Odyssey, for example), and if the Ice Climbers are returning, well, that makes Rosalina and Luma's special gimmick a little less special. On the subject of Pokemon, it's a constantly changing franchise, with the most cuts in the series. Greninja was added before he got popular, making him a rather lucky choice, and with the new games released in the gap between Smash installments, it's reasonable to suggest he's gonna be replaced in favor of one of the new pokemon, which is what they would probably do anyways. Then again, he is very popular, so who knows. Since there are like, 800+ Pokemon and it's one of Nintendo's longest running franchises, it probably wouldn't anger too many people if a 7th character was added to the current 6.

Even Sakurai has stated that 6 Fire Emblem characters is too much, so he WILL be kicking some out. The obvious choice is Lucina (more on her later), but who else? Well, Marth is obviously staying, and Ike seems to be a mainstay by this point. Now, onto people commonly debated. Robin and Corrin. Sakurai put a LOT of heart and passion into both of these characters, so it's hard to imagine him being willing to cut either of them so soon, but if a lot of space is needed, it's still possible that one or even both of them will get axed.

Now, on to the third party newcomers. I believe that not that many third parties are going, as most have some fair points in their favor and some reasons to stay. It's very hard to imagine Mega Man or Pac Man leaving, and it is indeed extremely unlikely due to their high popularity even if they weren't doing a lot when Smash 4 released (especially the former), but it could still happen. Gregstar already summed up Cloud and Ryu for me nicely (though I'd buff up Clouds odds a bit), so I'll skip them. And finally Bayonetta.... hooh boy, Bayonetta. To those still sore over her total dominance soon after her release, I've got bad news. She probably won't be leaving. A: Like it or not, she still won the ballot, giving her a reason to be prioritized, B: Nintendo practically owns her nowadays, with Bayonetta 2 being funded by Nintendo, and unless I'm mistaken, I hear Bayonetta 3 is releasing exclusively on the Switch, and C: Platinum Games and Nintendo have a solid relationship, and Hideki himself has stated he's fully open to Bayonetta's return (and has also regretted not allowing her to be included in another crossover fighter, I think it was Project X Zone or something like that.

Clones

The poor clones have always been bullied and harassed, and they are the most common targets for cuts (ex: out of all 5 characters in Melee that didn't return to Brawl, only one of them (Mewtwo) wasn't a clone). In SSB4, there are three full moveset clones; Dr Mario, Lucina, and Dark Pit. The is pretty much no reason for Lucina and Dark Pit to stay, I belive they will be amongst the first cuts. Out of all three, the one I'd put my money on is Dr. Mario, due to being a bit more unique than either of them, and more well-liked because of bringing back Mario's Melee moveset, but him getting cut is still a pretty big possibility.

PEOPLE CUT BEFORE IN SMASH

I at least have very strong hope for Wolf to return. Before anyone says "BUT CLONE", WOLF. IS. NOT. A. CLONE. The ONLY things they share are edge attacks and a final smash. THAT'S IT. Before you say special moves, even those have different particle effects and function differently than Fox's in spite of being similarly named. Plus, he's gotten pretty popular over time in Smash, and it would really be a wasted opportunity if he were not to come back.

Mewtwo and Roy are highly popular and the fact they made it back as DLC at all after being cut really says a lot, so I think they are going to be fine. (Plus, Roy is unique enough to warrant his own slot unlike Lucina, so there's no reason to cut him instead of her like, at all). Marth is obviously staying, and Ike seems to be a mainstay now.

Young Link and Pichu will never return. (If this is the Smash where we get alternate costumes like in Project M for a lot of characters, which is certainly possible given the new Breath of the Wild design revealed for Link (though that's also likely a whole new character), then Young Link COULD become one for Toon Link, basically the exact same character, but that is it). Snake is the odd one out. I REALLY want to see him again, but he's just a pipe dream, TBH. Aside from basically being added as a favor for a friend (one that managed to work REALLY well, but still), his cut was likely due to the fact that in recent years, Konami's public image.... hasn't been the best. This hasn't been confirmed, but it's very likely why he's gone.

EVERYONE ELSE

I actually don't think any of the original 12 are going. Why? Well, my reasoning is pretty much the same as RelaxAlex's in his "What if Smash had only 30 characters" video (basically, just from appearing in all the Smash games thus far, they've become highly recognizable to Nintendo history as a whole. They've been there since the very start, through all the ups and downs of the series, they have been there to see it all).

Now, who else could be going? Well, honestly, I don't know. Most of the Melee and Brawl veterans seem to be pretty well put right now. I'll just close off here for the time being.

Oh yeah, also, feel free to yell at me. I love destructive criticism.
 
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Joined
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#9
100% Safe- Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, DK, Diddy, Wario, Link, Zelda, Pit, Samus, Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede, Fox, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Ness, Marth, Olimar

I think anyone else runs the potential risk of being cut, whether large or small risk. Mewtwo showcases even a unique and hugely popular character in a series could be cut. Jigglypuff being low priority and barely scraping by in Brawl shows being a veteran isn't a sure thing. Wolf showed that a more unique character can be cut from a series in favor of keeping a clone. And Ice Climbers showcased something could arise to prevent a character being added even if they wanted and intended to put them in.

I'll cover some popular cuts people list that I oppose of though. (Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are obvious stances)

Pokemon
Shouldn't be cut

:4greninja: The most popular starter in quite some time, frog ninja should not be axed for a new pokemon unless we want to push the ideology that only Gen 1 matters. Either no cuts for pokemon or Gen 1 needs to cough up their spots first.
:4mewtwo: He missed the bus for Brawl, and I really think that was a large mistake. I think he is the second most important pokemon in terms of Gen 1 time seeing as the movie focused on him was this big bad cave dwelling monster for the end game. Mewtwo should never of been cut, I do hope he remains.
:4lucario: A very popular pokemon in the middle of the Gens, Lucario is starting to age some but still remains rather popular.

If someone is cut, it should be
:4charizard: A very popular starter that should of been in over Jigglypuff in the start if not Mewtwo. However he missed out and didn't get in till Brawl tied to Pokemon Trainer. I really don't know if he should kept his spot going into Smash 4 and should of left with Ivysaur and Squirtle. He doesn't seem that popular in Smash itself, but it makes it harder to see someone go the longer they remain on the roster.
:4jigglypuff: Her barely making the roster multiple times indicates she may just be scraping by. With Pokemon's rich and plentiful potential in newcomers, it's hard to justify her position on the roster besides her being one of the originals. Her popularity did not age well like Charizard.

I honestly think I'd cut Jigglypuff first, followed by Charizard. What will they do? I don't know.. but I think people seem to bandwagon to cut the new guy despite him making quite a splash. Greninja is also more popular than Lucario and Charizard in Smash, so I usually wind up shocked people think he is the sure go to cut. I don't think we can really predict who it will be except not Pikachu. We can hope Pokemon suffers no cuts though!



Fire Emblem
Shouldn't be cut

:4myfriends: Ike is one that surprises me how often people try to throw him out. He is the most popular male lord easily sporting a unique kit in Smash. He was the star of two Fire Emblem games (Micaiah and Sothe were horrible) and gained quite a bit of Smash popularity to boot.
:4robinm: The only Fire Emblem hero that doesn't sport only sword attacks. Robin should stay in for variety sakes.

If someone is cut, it should be
:4feroy: and :4lucina: There's been a point made that Fire Emblem has too many on the roster. If there are cuts, it should start at the clones. Especially when there are two clones off of the same move set. Lucina is popular, but she looks more like Marth making her less exciting. Roy was already cut once, but he was brought back and got a makeover that lets him stand out. I'd honestly take down Lucina first. Female Marth is not a interesting character design.
:4corrin: Don't know much on them tbh. I could see them getting cut for being rather unpopular on announcement like Wolf was. Seeing as the game they were from didn't perform as well as intended and Corrin really hasn't hit it off as popular... I could them being axed. Their moveset could save them over the above two however.

I'd cut Lucina first and add her like Alph is to Olimar if I had the time. Then likely do a toss up between Corrin and Roy in which I'd likely axe Corrin since Roy is popular in comparison. What do I think they will do? I'm actually thinking Corrin will be the first to go since they were DLC followed by Roy if there are two cuts. If they keep Roy, I see Lucina being demoted to a cosetume. I don't care for Lucina, but I could see them keeping her for female reps... even though that is a sad reasoning as she literally looks like female Marth instead of something interesting.



Misc.
:4shulk: He is the Marth of the series. I doubt he'll be cut for the new guy/girl that most people seem to do on roster speculations.
:4wiifit: :4wiifitm: They'll likely return as we have only loss one series (IC) due to tech issues. If ROB and G&W can return even if rather unpopular, than the Wii Fit Trainers can also return.
:4cloud: :4bayonetta: More likely to be cut than most of the 1st party. Similar to how I could see DLC characters being cut over base characters. Bayonetta and Cloud come to mind when I think about cuts faster than others. And I think that is only fair in a game celebrating Nintendo All Stars that the Nintendo characters remain over the 3rd party guests.
:4mii: I hate them in general, would love to see them go. That's more personal though, and I really think they are a wildcard since they were really a gimmick in Smash 4.
 
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Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
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#10
Fire Emblem
Shouldn't be cut

:4myfriends: Ike is one that surprises me how often people try to throw him out. He is the most popular male lord easily sporting a unique kit in Smash. He was the star of two Fire Emblem games (Micaiah and Sothe were horrible) and gained quite a bit of Smash popularity to boot.
:4robinm: The only Fire Emblem hero that doesn't sport only sword attacks. Robin should stay in for variety sakes.
I won't question any of them (in fact, Robin and Marth are pretty much the best characters to represent the series nowadays, and Ike is the most popular Fire Emblem Character since like... 2009?)... But...

Why you hate Micaiah? :sadsheep::(
 
Joined
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Messages
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#11
I won't question any of them (in fact, Robin and Marth are pretty much the best characters to represent the series nowadays, and Ike is the most popular Fire Emblem Character since like... 2009?)... But...

Why you hate Micaiah? :sadsheep::(
Yep, Roy's main claim on the roster is his Smash popularity and red hair. Lucina's main claim on the roster is her Fire Emblem popularity (on a design perspective, I don't get it cause she is literally female Marth which is very boring. I don't know her personality.) and female rep. While Corrin lacks the popularity but holds a unique move set. I could even see a outcome of all three being axed as their own characters to make room for someone new and lower the FE representation down.


really seen a 100% Micaiah fan, and I noticed you around after some other post where I knocked the character and was like... welp sooner or later... they're going to see my hate for her.

Her chapters weren't fun. When they switched you back to her people at one point, you just feel grossly out performed by the other side. Also after getting back to Ike and crew, you really didn't want to go back to her. (The Price was awful)

Her recruits were mostly trash. Heather was a man hating thief not worth existing with Sothe and Volke already being main thieves forced into the storyline. Fiona and Meg were true nightmares to level, I tried to level Fiona once and it was just a pain. Volug was interesting but his quirk also hindered his usefulness. (I think I took his quirk away to make him stronger cause I did like him) Laura was rather one note, at least Rhys being sickly and wishing he was tough made him more interesting of a Priest. Edward and Leonardo were okay, but they were clearly outclassed by others in their unit typing like Lucia, Mia, or Shinon. So pretty much her best recruits in personality and power were actually... Ike's friends like Zihark, Illyana, and Nephenee.

And lastly, just her, Micaiah. She was more than willing to perform horrid actions to pursue her goals and protect her people. She was legit fine with burning people alive. Sothe getting taken hostage was her only hesitation on that matter, and maybe they should of thew both of them off the cliff side right there with what type of level they were willing to fall to. Her whole story felt more like her own selfish and spiteful outlook on Ike and Daein's fall even stating she'd become like the Mad King before her to protect her people. And it was funny how Sothe's praise of Ike at anytime triggers her. She basically lived up to Daein's discrimination and prejudice in her own ways as she blindly saw Ike as some monster that destroyed her homeland when her homeland was a place of mass discrimination and murder of Laguz/Laguz Supporters and her people massacred Elincia's family and waged war across the lands to take over killing countless people. I couldn't root for her in the slightest.
 

Troykv

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
3,400
#12
Yep, Roy's main claim on the roster is his Smash popularity and red hair. Lucina's main claim on the roster is her Fire Emblem popularity (on a design perspective, I don't get it cause she is literally female Marth which is very boring. I don't know her personality.) and female rep. While Corrin lacks the popularity but holds a unique move set. I could even see a outcome of all three being axed as their own characters to make room for someone new and lower the FE representation down.


really seen a 100% Micaiah fan, and I noticed you around after some other post where I knocked the character and was like... welp sooner or later... they're going to see my hate for her.

Her chapters weren't fun. When they switched you back to her people at one point, you just feel grossly out performed by the other side. Also after getting back to Ike and crew, you really didn't want to go back to her. (The Price was awful)

Her recruits were mostly trash. Heather was a man hating thief not worth existing with Sothe and Volke already being main thieves forced into the storyline. Fiona and Meg were true nightmares to level, I tried to level Fiona once and it was just a pain. Volug was interesting but his quirk also hindered his usefulness. (I think I took his quirk away to make him stronger cause I did like him) Laura was rather one note, at least Rhys being sickly and wishing he was tough made him more interesting of a Priest. Edward and Leonardo were okay, but they were clearly outclassed by others in their unit typing like Lucia, Mia, or Shinon. So pretty much her best recruits in personality and power were actually... Ike's friends like Zihark, Illyana, and Nephenee.

And lastly, just her, Micaiah. She was more than willing to perform horrid actions to pursue her goals and protect her people. She was legit fine with burning people alive. Sothe getting taken hostage was her only hesitation on that matter, and maybe they should of thew both of them off the cliff side right there with what type of level they were willing to fall to. Her whole story felt more like her own selfish and spiteful outlook on Ike and Daein's fall even stating she'd become like the Mad King before her to protect her people. And it was funny how Sothe's praise of Ike at anytime triggers her. She basically lived up to Daein's discrimination and prejudice in her own ways as she blindly saw Ike as some monster that destroyed her homeland when her homeland was a place of mass discrimination and murder of Laguz/Laguz Supporters and her people massacred Elincia's family and waged war across the lands to take over killing countless people. I couldn't root for her in the slightest.
I like Roy, but I understand why people find him expandable; personally the only character from FE in Smash that I don't like is Corrin.

I think I had seen you before, I think I didn't asked before because I was a bit too busy with other stuff IRL... But then, I see you again... and I feel the neccesity to talk.

While I feel the game was a bit unfair with the treatment of the different parties, I think they are supposed to give you a different kind of experiences... When Ike is leader you are essencially living a power fantasy with everybody except the kids being as strong or even stronger than the enemies, specially notable with Titania, Ike and Shinon, that would easily deal with most of the Part 3 enemies, the only reason you seems in the neccesity to use more people is beause NPCs like Skirmir are a bit... suicidal...

Also, a little note, Heather is actually from Ike's group, she is in fact, the only newbie character that doesn't join Micaiah's group.

When Micaiah is the leader in the other hand, your units are in more opressive enviroments, this would feel scary for many people, but personally I find exciting the strategies were more important in her maps; playing Micaiah's maps in fact helps to avoid develop game pitfalls like item hoarding and seeing the prepromotes just a "Exp-Stealers" instead of taking advantage of the more strategical solutions.

I think the base members of the Dawn Brigade (Micaiah, Sothe, Edward, Leonardo, Nolan, Laura and Aran) are perfectly fine options for the game, and they're viable enough to even work in the end-game (specially Nolan, which is the second best of them after Sothe in the early-game)

Meg and Fiona are bad units, but personally, I think Ike got the worst bad apple in the form of Lyre (poor thing, cats are horrible in this game, and you're some how weaker than Lethe)... At least Meg and Fiona have movement utilities thanks to their Con (Meg) and mount (Fiona)

If you're interested, you can actually learn a bit from the DB's members backstory reading official media like the Recollection.

Micaiah is, after all, a woman raised for Daein's people, she doesn't share her view of the Laguz or the Branded, but she is in debt with them after all these years living there; Micaiah also had got an additional responsability for being the King's General; she would have just flee from Daein if she wanted, but she didn't, because Micaiah believed in that Daein's survival was possible. And even if it was needed to burn half of Empress' army to get that precious time, she would, because she is that devout to her cause... But even the strong-willed have their weakness, Micaiah loves Sothe.

Also, Micaiah's view of Ike is a blurry one; he only knew Ike for his actions in the invasion to Daein, and essencially selling them to the devil (Begnion). In fact, as soon as Micaiah started to see Ike in action, his dislike for him turned into respect; after all, Ike had proven that he was actually the man Sothe had always talk about.
 
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#13
Personally I think the Miis are safe. Whilst a bit of a drain on dev time, thanks to DLC in the last game I can't see them being cut. People bought those outfits, so the Mii were a business success, and I think it'd be crazy to assume that won't happen again for Smash Switch.

Returning list(Sm4sh cuts and newcomers only, I think most everyone else is safe):

:popo::4mewtwo::4feroy::4lucas::wolf:(some may be saved for DLC)
:4bowserjr::rosalina::4villager::4shulk::4pacman::4megaman::4bayonetta::4ryu::4robinm::4duckhunt::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword::4littlemac::4palutena::4charizard:
Relatively safe. Miis I covered, Namco will secure Pac-Man, Megaman was the most hyped reveal to date, Ryu will come back as part of the negotiations for Megaman probably, Bayonetta is the fan poll winner-cutting her would be a bad idea. Robin has a unique moveset(NOT JUST SWORDS) and Awakening was Fire Emblem's biggest success release to date.

Cut list:
:4wiifit::4cloud::4greninja::4drmario:
Wii Fit Trainer seems like the most bare basic character to cut. Not really a character to begin with, and not hugely popular with the fans of Smash. Cloud...I just see being a Snake kinda deal. Greninja to be cut to make way for an Alola mon or a Gen 8 mon, Doc to be cut because he's the only person on the entire roster who is the same guy as another. I don't know, I just see Doc as expendable whilst we have actual Mario on the list.

The I dunno man list:

I'm really not sure on :4lucina: or :4darkpit:. Lucina's hugely popular and Dark Pit is likely to get a Luigified moveset if he returns, but the question is whether he returns or not. Sakurai probably saw backlash from both Fire Emblem being too overrepped(although I think we'll still get a newcomer from the series, so she may be cut for that purpose), and Kid Icarus got some flack from own series bias as Uprising got a LOT of new content in Sm4sh 3DS which soured people's tastes.

:4corrinf:similarly has a unique moveset but many fans were outraged at Corrin's inclusion during a time we were supposed to be getting fan favourites in DLC. After the hype of returning vets Mewtwo, Roy and Lucas and mega stars like Ryu and Cloud we get...ANOTHER Fire Emblem character, but one NO ONE has heard of.
Fates also...kinda didn't do as well as they were hoping.
 
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#14
I like Roy, but I understand why people find him expandable; personally the only character from FE in Smash that I don't like is Corrin.
As someone who played a lot of Wolf, I got to see what Roy fans went through. So, I don't exactly advocate cuts for the sake of cuts, but I do realize some are at more risk or of course have opinions on who I think would be better cuts as I feel characters like Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Lucina are very lack luster and bring little to the roster. I could easily say that I would find Micaiah a better addition to the roster over Lucina cause she would bring more to the table. Of course there characters are put in cause they are low effort, but it does create an issue that they develop fans and it sucks for them to lose their characters. But if someone has to go, it really should be those who bring less to the table.

That's why I struggle to see some people advocating the removal of characters like :4myfriends:, :4greninja:, or :4wiifit: when they bring more to the table than clones (like :4lucina: :4feroy: :4darkpit: ) or characters that from highly represented portions of the franchise. (:4jigglypuff: and :4charizard:) But I also feel bad throwing those characters under the bus cause they have their fans as well.

I respect your passion for the character and do get some of your points in regards to her or her army. And dang, Heather was Ike's problem? I couldn't stand her and her blatant and never really questioned blatant hatred and disregard for men. So ya, worst character in the game goes to Ike's Heather. I was thinking Brom and Nephenee were on Micaiah's Team for awhile, it has been quite some time since playing it.

I will admit that playing the game again may open me up more to her since I actually didn't fully enjoy Ike on my first play through of Path of Radiance, more so cause I fed other characters like Ranulf, Titania, Illyana, Kieran, and Boyd instead of Ike... so he was a forced liability as the game went on. I played Radiant Dawn at least twice, but I never could really bring myself to like her at the time. I think her trying to burn people alive (including some units I used in the first game often like Kieran) was a major turn off to me at the time. I understood the issue she was facing, but it was just a bit much to support her side or her team trying to do that.

Didn't help the new characters that the Support Conversations were removed. I really enjoyed those and the depth it added to the characters and it really hurt the personality aspect of the army. So it was harder for me to bond with her or her army.
 
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Jetsurge

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#15
:4greninja: WILL NOT BE CUT! He was voted the #1 most popular Pokemon in Japan. In this competition the winner Pokemon was distributed to everyone. They could've got an Arceus, Darkrai or Mew but no everyone still voted for Greninja, that's how popular he is. Also he still was prominent in SuMo with Ash-Greninja which will probably be his new final Smash.
 
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DNeon

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#16
**** it, no point sitting here critiquing pother people's opinions if I'm not going to throw my hat in the ring.

Returning, barring any kind of utter catastrophe:
Mario::4mario::4luigi::4peach::4bowser::4yoshi::rosalina:
Fire Emblem::4marth::4myfriends::4robinf::4lucina:
Hardware::4gaw::4rob::4wiifit::4duckhunt:
Pokemon::4pikachu::4jigglypuff::4greninja:
Kirby::4kirby::4metaknight::4dedede:
Metroid::4samus::4zss:
Donkey Kong::4dk::4diddy:
Star Fox::4fox::4falco:
Kid Icarus::4pit:
Mother::4ness:
Misc.::4falcon::4wario::4olimar::4villager::4littlemac::4shulk:

For a few of the obvious points I'm going to get in respone:

LEGEND OF ZELDA
Yeah this is the obvious omission, just because I might be overly spooked by the BotW designs, but something has me thinking they'll be shaking up not just the designs but the movesets, and that leaves me wondering who'll return as an alternative with the current ones, or if that even happens.
Basically I'm saying that :4link::4zelda::4ganondorf:will be there in some degree but I'm not going to chuck them in the list above and imply that Shiek and Tink are therefore less likely, nor imply that they'll be using even close to the same moves as before (probably will). Hell maybe Shiek becomes one with Zelda again? Maybe she becomes Impa, or hell the Yiga clan. Maybe Ganondorf is done and it's time for Ganon. This **** seems unlikely but I can't chake the feeling that there will be a shakeup among them.

POKEMON
No, I'm not predicting that many cuts. Again, this is just a case of not being willing to say which ones will be cut, whether Pokemon Trainer comes back, and how they implement them in that case. Pikachu's obvious and I think that Jigglypuff gets a bit of a bad rap, she's currently the representative for female tavel companions in the anime and has a very unique moveset. Also the first sign that someone is talking out of their *** is that they predict Greninja cut.

After that though it becomes difficult. Mewtwo, he was first DLC so he's high consideration, but nobody knows why he was cut in Brawl or was a latecomer in 4 either. Lucario was always predicted to be on the outs but he made it back in which surprised almost no-one but it's not hard to see why Sakurai might not be enthusiastic about him given his largely bland moveset. I know that I'm now falling into the same trap as the pre-4 Lucario deniers who I just mocked but there's something that I'm just not seeing here that's going to keep him in with other Pokemon taking over his hype over the year.

3RD PARTIES
Ok I'm just going to refuse to comment on them. Things change, relationships change, plans change. Sonic is honestly probably 100%, same with both Capcom reps. Pac-Man is up to whether Bamco is still helping out, but probably pretty high chance regardless. You can't give a character a popular vote win and cut them so Bayo's probably coming back too. Who the **** knows about Cloud. Oh, and Snake's probably not coming back.

But who the **** knows these days.

DLC
Brought it up a bit earlier with Pokemon, but it's just hard to classify. Why was Mewtwo pretty much guaranteed in but delayed until DLC? Do all clones just come back as DLC? No, I know Wolf isn't really one but he sure didn't come back. What put Lucas and Roy higher up the list than him? Did the order correlate directly to the popularity? Was it just about ease of implementation? Regardless, I'm aiming for a 'base character list'

CLONES
Ok, I predicted 1 clone return. I'm not going to touch on whether they had the time to actually implement Dark Pit properly this time, or whether Mario could get some move changes and make Dr. Mario even more releveant (let alone my idea of the possibility for the Doc to become 'Costume Mario' in reference to more of his Odyssey style).

But Lucina is an incredibly popular character, and regardless of whether she stays as a clone, has a revamp or even gets downgraded to just an alternate I am certain that she'll stay.

Ok so with all that out of the way, I guess the only things left that I have an actual opinion on are, in no particular order:
:4corrin::4bowserjr::4palutena::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword::popo::wolf:

Ok, yes, I covered Corrin and Wolf sort of in DLC, but there's a bit more.

:4corrin:was a marketting ploy that I believe I remember Sakurai not being particularly enthusiastic about. It's hard to judge especially with the criticism, but maybe I'm giving it too much stock, especially since it was mostly the hardcore crowd.

:4bowserjr:nearly didn't even make it in. I can see him(them?) coming back in DLC like some of the other cuts, but without any focus in Odyssey they moved even furhter down the priority list.

:4palutena::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword: were all closely tied to the curstom moves system. I'm not sure if it will come back for this one, and if it doesn't I don't know how they'll modify them, but it's definitely possible. Palutena is a decently popular character so it's easy to say she'll just have her moveset chosen to be ones that work together and then return. Mii fighters were also well recieved through the Costume system to let people play as other characters, so I do think that they'll return. This is sort of another case of not knowing the form they'll take like with Zelda or Pokemon trainer so I'm just not willing to comment too much.

:popo:I'll be straight up, I have a bias against them, I hate playing against them and have no fun playing as them. But they're likely to return if the performance issues are resolved. that said, the Switch still isn't incredibly powerful, and if they wish to prioritise the likes of 8 Player Smash returning, especially with a local play element to it then I can see ICs once again being an issue.

:wolf:I don't ****ing know?! How was he the only one left out of the DLC? There was even a Star Fox game coming out. Whatever, it's a mystery so I ain't gonna call it.

Oh yeah lol
:pichumelee::younglinkmelee:
they dead
 
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Blackwolf666

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#17
Characters I think will return

:4bayonetta2::4bowser::4falcon::4corrinf::4dedede::4diddy::4dk::4duckhunt::4falco::4fox::4myfriends::4kirby::4littlemac::4link::4luigi::4mario::4marth::4metaknight::4gaw::4ness::4olimar::4peach::4pikachu::4pit::4rob::4robinf::rosalina::4samus::4sheik::4shulk::4sonic::4tlink::4wario::4yoshi::4zelda::4zss::popo::4villager::4lucario::4megaman:

Characters I have doubts will return but still see as more likely than not.

:4bowserjr::4palutena::4wiifit::4feroy::4mewtwo::4ganondorf::wolf::4jigglypuff::4pacman::4charizard::4lucas::4greninja:

Characters I see as unlikely

:snake:(sad since he's one of my most wanted):4ryu::4lucina:(unless she's a costume):4drmario:(same as Lucina):4darkpit:(ditto):4cloud::pt::squirtle::ivysaur::pichumelee::younglinkmelee::4mii:
 
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PF9

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#18
To me the idea of cutting characters is as controversial as relocation of franchises to other cities in major sports leagues.

People have gotten upset when their favorite character is cut from a Smash game, just as people have gotten upset when a team relocates out of their city (case in point: Seattle SuperSonics).
 

Diddy Kong

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#19
  • All the characters from 64 are safe
  • Ice Climbers will return
  • Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, Lucina, Lucas, Mewtwo, Roy are cut
  • Pokemon Trainer will return, but will have new Pokemon. This means Charizard can return.
  • Greninja is cut. Will be replaced by someone from Ultra Sun/Moon
  • All 3rd parties are cut except Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man
  • Bayo will return. I don't consider her to be 3rd party since she's co-owned by Nintendo
  • Ganondorf will be revamped, and is now based on Hyrule Warriors
  • I guess Wolf could return, but if he does they should make him significantly different from Fox and Falco.
  • ZSS and Sheik will remain separated from Samus and Zelda respectively (it's better this way).
  • Shulk will return alongside Rex (you know it's gonna happen).
  • Wii Fit Trainer is cut
  • Duck Hunt will return
  • Miis are cut
  • I think Corrin will return despite only being in the game to promote Fates. Corrin is unique among the FE characters, and it would be a shame to take him/her out.
  • Game & Watch is in
  • ROB will return
  • Snake is never coming back. TBH, getting tired of seeing his name pop up.
  • Anyone from Smash 4 I didn't mention, just assume that they are returning.
You speak too much in absolutes, and it's kind of ridiculous when you do cause you say Mewtwo is gonna get cut :rolleyes:
 

Troykv

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#21
As someone who played a lot of Wolf, I got to see what Roy fans went through. So, I don't exactly advocate cuts for the sake of cuts, but I do realize some are at more risk or of course have opinions on who I think would be better cuts as I feel characters like Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Lucina are very lack luster and bring little to the roster. I could easily say that I would find Micaiah a better addition to the roster over Lucina cause she would bring more to the table. Of course there characters are put in cause they are low effort, but it does create an issue that they develop fans and it sucks for them to lose their characters. But if someone has to go, it really should be those who bring less to the table.

That's why I struggle to see some people advocating the removal of characters like :4myfriends:, :4greninja:, or :4wiifit: when they bring more to the table than clones (like :4lucina: :4feroy: :4darkpit: ) or characters that from highly represented portions of the franchise. (:4jigglypuff: and :4charizard:) But I also feel bad throwing those characters under the bus cause they have their fans as well.

I respect your passion for the character and do get some of your points in regards to her or her army. And dang, Heather was Ike's problem? I couldn't stand her and her blatant and never really questioned blatant hatred and disregard for men. So ya, worst character in the game goes to Ike's Heather. I was thinking Brom and Nephenee were on Micaiah's Team for awhile, it has been quite some time since playing it.

I will admit that playing the game again may open me up more to her since I actually didn't fully enjoy Ike on my first play through of Path of Radiance, more so cause I fed other characters like Ranulf, Titania, Illyana, Kieran, and Boyd instead of Ike... so he was a forced liability as the game went on. I played Radiant Dawn at least twice, but I never could really bring myself to like her at the time. I think her trying to burn people alive (including some units I used in the first game often like Kieran) was a major turn off to me at the time. I understood the issue she was facing, but it was just a bit much to support her side or her team trying to do that.

Didn't help the new characters that the Support Conversations were removed. I really enjoyed those and the depth it added to the characters and it really hurt the personality aspect of the army. So it was harder for me to bond with her or her army.
Yeah, I agree with the clone thing... Original newcomers are always a more fascinating thing to put in the rosters... And I'm not just talking because this is in Micaiah's favor.

Well, at least clones doesn't use to much resources (and in fact, some of them like Lucina are created because they're really popular characters, people would RIOT for her absence for how popular she is...)...

It's nice to see someone respect me and my opinion, thank you.

I'm the kind of person that loves to know everything with a open mind even if I'm heavily spoilered... It makes me easier to see which things are actually bad and which ones are just a matter of perspective in the subject.

If Radiant Dawn gets a remake in the long future I would like to see these so needed Supports Conversations even if they aren't that much.
 
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#22
It's amazing that people think Wii Fit would ever be cut, a game that celebrates Nintendo's history not representing the series that sold 18.22 million copies worldwide, yes that is quite sound logic, ahahaha.
For real though those that seriously think Wii Fit will be cut are not to be trusted.
 
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biigshaq

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#23
It's amazing that people think Wii Fit would ever be cut, a game that celebrates Nintendo's history not representing the series that sold 18.22 million copies worldwide, yes that is quite sound logic, ahahaha.
For real though those that seriously think Wii Fit will be cut are not to be trusted.
But no one plays wii fit (game or character) and there are much better new characters that can be added
 
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#24
But no one plays wii fit (game or character) and there are much better new characters that can be added
Well first off, False cause Wii Fit is a hecka fun character to play.

Second off,
 

biigshaq

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#25
Well first off, False cause Wii Fit is a hecka fun character to play.

Second off,
It is kinda on the point. I mean, Nintendo usually understands that stuff not working for them needs to go, and despite Wii fit trainer being (or maybe not being) hella fun doesn't mean she is popular enough to stay with all of the fans wanting people like Crash Bandicoot and Chrom, ect
 
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#26
It is kinda on the point. I mean, Nintendo usually understands that stuff not working for them needs to go, and despite Wii fit trainer being (or maybe not being) hella fun doesn't mean she is popular enough to stay with all of the fans wanting people like Crash Bandicoot and Chrom, ect
No its not on point at all, Wii Fit is a huge franchise and Wii Fit is a fun character with a unqiue moveset who has fans, they’re not gonna take her out cause a bunch if 13 year olds whined about her
 
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#27
It's amazing that people think Wii Fit would ever be cut, a game that celebrates Nintendo's history not representing the series that sold 18.22 million copies worldwide, yes that is quite sound logic, ahahaha.
For real though those that seriously think Wii Fit will be cut are not to be trusted.
Translation: Anyone who disagrees with me is a non-trustworthy scrub. (...I mean, I am a scrub, but plenty of people ain't)

I mean, contrary to what my original post suggested, I do think she has a 50/50 chance, but still, people are allowed to have opinions.
 
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#28
Translation: Anyone who disagrees with me is a non-trustworthy scrub. (...I mean, I am a scrub, but plenty of people ain't)

I mean, contrary to what my original post suggested, I do think she has a 50/50 chance, but still, people are allowed to have opinions.
Anyone who says Wii Fit should be cut because “no on likes her” should definitely not be trusted, cause that is an opinon.
 
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#31
Pretty sure ROB has been bottom of the barrel in popularity as far as I have seen, and he has kept his position. I don't think Wii Fit Trainer being less popular is a sign that they need cut. I think it may drop them down to lower priority which can lead to being cut, but I think they are safer than several other cast members that have big hurdles (3rd Party) or even less priority. (the 2 Marth clones from the over represented Fire Emblem series)
 

MoonlitIllusion

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#32
I don't think anyone will get cut, I'll be shocked if this game isn't essentially a port turned sequel to begin with. and I don't think there's anyone worth cutting tbh, the biggest character in danger imo is greninja but he's so popular there's no point cutting him
 
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#33
I don't think anyone will get cut, I'll be shocked if this game isn't essentially a port turned sequel to begin with. and I don't think there's anyone worth cutting tbh, the biggest character in danger imo is greninja but he's so popular there's no point cutting him
Greninja is a 50/50, nowhere NEAR the most in danger. Two characters who are a bit more likely not to see the light should there be cuts Lucina and Dark Pit, who have IMO the two laziest movesets in Smash history (though they could easily be made alt costumes like they were originally planned to be, which I suppose wouldn't technically be cutting them)
 
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MoonlitIllusion

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#34
Greninja is a 50/50, nowhere NEAR the most in danger. That would be Lucina and Dark Pit, who have IMO the two laziest movesets in Smash history.
I don't think Lucina and Dark Pit are in danger at all, they're so easy to make that there's literally no point cutting them, the people who want to demote them back to costume status make absolutely no sense to me too.
 
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#35
I don't think Lucina and Dark Pit are in danger at all, they're so easy to make that there's literally no point cutting them, the people who want to demote them back to costume status make absolutely no sense to me too.
Well, I think the reason people want them to be moved to alt costumes because their Smash movesets have almost no distinction from the originals, so it would still make sense (not saying I want them to become alternate costumes, though)
 

MoonlitIllusion

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#36
Well, I think the reason people want them to be moved to alt costumes because their Smash movesets have almost no distinction from the originals, so it would still make sense (not saying I want them to become alternate costumes, though)
It makes more sense to me to differentiate them further rather than make them a costume again, they were given their own slots and slightly different traits for a reason
 

biigshaq

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#37
I mean, in the end, since the end goal of Nintey is just to keep the roster high, there may very well be no cuts. just additions.
 

SUDOZELDA

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#39
I honestly hope Wolf, ICS, and Snake make it to Smash 5. I loved Wolf in Brawl and Project M. Snake was great as well as ICS. Bayonetta and Bowser Jr. should be cut tho. (Dont murder me Bayo mains)
 
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