Who needs Z-cancelling?

[moogle]

Maybe I'm a bit behind everyone, but within the past week or two I realized that you don't have to z-cancel Fox's short hop down-air. Assuming you start the down-air immediately after jumping, there's no landing lag. Same is true for all of Fox's aerials, I think, except for neutral-air.

Now... try doing a full jump down-air with Fox. You'll notice that the animation for that move lasts pretty long... long enough that the entire animation maybe hasn't finished by the time you touch the ground. It should be clear that when you short hop down-air with Fox, the animation for the down-air hasn't completely finished when you touch the ground. But, (assuming you did it right) there's no landing lag, and no need to z-cancel. The SSBM people call this auto-cancelling.

So my questions...
1) Does anyone else know this?
2) Does anyone think this is cool?
3) Does anyone think they'll put this to use?
etc. etc.
x) ant-d, could you find the auto-cancel frames for all the characters' aerials?

 

[Nintendude]

I've actually used this for awhile now, except I suck with Fox and don' t use him much.

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Maybe people z-cancel it b/c the time when you hit the ground if you hit someone with the dair versus the time you hit the ground when you don't touch them at all is different. Or it at least gives that appearance-- I don't know if I'm deluding myself, but doesn't mario's SHed Dair slow down when its actually hitting the opponent?

 

[ant-d]

Attack Duration:
D-air AC is 22.
21 = lag, etc

Jump Duration:
SH = 8.
9 = lag, etc

This is frame 8 of D-air

It means if you perform D-air for 22 frames then it will not have lag.
If Fox short hops for 8 frames and performs D-air there will be no lag.

It will go in my frame data if I can find a good way to store it. It probably auto-cancels at the apex of SH for other characters.

 

[_kSo_]

OH sh*t I noticed that a while ago, but I didn't think anything of it!! wow yea fox has weird sh aerials like that

 

[ant-d]

short hop or regular jump, same thing.

 

[_kSo_]

Oh really? well i would assume if fox's aerials were auto canceled from a sh, it would most certainly be canceled from a normal jump. Does this happen with any other character?

 

[ant-d]

all

__________

 

[Zantetsu]

Man moogle ur late lol. I dont think u have to l cancel fox's fair eather...

 

[Umbrasquall]

It happens with all the characters, you just have to let the animation finish before you hit the ground and it'll be as if you touched the ground without doing an aerial move. But z-cancelling is a habit. I even cancel when I don't do an aerial move.

 

[cmasterchoe]

Agree with Umbra, i think the same goes with a lotta pika aerials, do it early and no lag at the end, but its a good habit to continually do it and what is there to lose? Premature carpal tunnel syndrome??? definitely worth it!

 

[tigerbombz]

u dnt have to z but its important anyways bc ppl *** up, ppl used to z cancel, and ppl z cancel everything. nuff siad

 

[Thino]

I did notice this with pika , but as Umbra and tiger said , its an habit

 

[ant-d]

you just have to let the animation finish before you hit the ground and it'll be as if you touched the ground without doing an aerial move

^this is not what moogle is talking about

Fox's D-air animation ends at 32 frames (I'm being generous here). If you read my first post you will see that it auto-cancels at 22 and greater. The animation definitely has not ended.


Here is the data:

The numbers represent the earliest frame which is auto-cancelled.
The lower the number, the earlier the move is auto-cancelled.
1 means it is impossible to get lag, since frame 1 is the start of the attack.
The only attacks that do not require z-cancelling are Ness' Up+Down-air and Pikachu's Up-air.
The only attack which is not auto-cancelled is Ness' ANA. Well, technically it has no lag after hitbox, so it must not be auto-cancelled.

 

[_kSo_]

Wow thats a pretty nifty chart you got there...do the colors have any significance whatsoever?

 

[Thino]

yellow is the fastest , grey is the slowest

 

[_kSo_]

oh word. Hah you would think i'd pick up on something like that