Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[the_air_up_there7]

So what u guys are saying is you use the shine to jump cancel? That seems almost impossible. Never knew multinshine was so hard.

 

[jacobrhcp]

i got another straight up

how do you do the >b, but in a way that only goes half as far? Sometimes I do it by accident, but I don't know what exactly I'm doing.

 

[DaShizWiz]

The air up there 7, yeah. You have to cancel out the shine by jumping, and then imediately after you jump you have to do another shine. So you have to catch the first few frames before he leaves the ground.

Jacobrhcp, the way you to the >b and make it short is you have to push it really fast(Keep pushing the b button), or you can do what I do. I push it twice, you have to time it. You have to do it right when you hear it go fuuf.

 

[the_air_up_there7]

Okay thanks shiz, multishine sounds really hard but I will try.

 

[manlypass@gmail.com]

Shiz, when I try to do the shine combo the shine either knocks them too high in the air or I just can't keep control of them. Is there certain times when it's easier to do, maybe it's easier to do against certain characters like fox or falco who fall fast, I usually play against marth.

Also, the multishine, are you just hitting vB-X/Y-vB? Or do you use the analog stick? Multishine is just JCshines, only when you jump you have to do it fast enough so you don't leave the ground, right?

 

[the_air_up_there7]

True!! 4got to ask what jump do u use for multishine?

 

[flipboi0787]

hey shiz, this it my first post. just got into smash this summer. my friends think i'm crazy because i learned pretty fast technical things. i looked through practically this whole forum and apparently everybody knows how to ledge tech. i know how to ledge tech with falco's up b sweetspotted but can't ledge tech with up b or side b any other time. i have two friends: one who plays captain falcon and sweetspots his uptilt into a ledgeguard and one who plays marth and ledge guards with downtilt. i just can't get the timing for teching falco's phantasm (side b). each time i phantasm the edge get hit by either captain's or marth's tilt and get close enough to the ledge but apparently don't have the timing for the tech. i see all your videos and you tech your phantasm just about everytime when you're put in that situation. could you help me out here?
also, your match versus queendvs(marth), you did the ledge powershield edge guard on queendvs. what's the chances this method would actually work?
finally, for jc shines, do you keep your left thumb down on the control stick the whole time when performing this technique?

 

[DaShizWiz]

Flipboi077, what I do for Jump canceled shines is I hold down the control stick when I push Down B. And after that I jump(still holding down on the control stick). After I jump I doanother Down B, but I do it really fast so I don't leave the ground.

I use Y to jump while doing this, But I do everything with Y besides wavedash....

 

[tarheeljks]

@shiz: a friend of mine who plays fox says falco can be shield grabbed out of a d-air into a shine (even if you l cancel). is this true? if so, is multishining the best option?

 

[halfzy]

that combo vid was hella tight
i wish i could even step to you and that skill

 

[falco_4_life]

hey shiz can u also shield brake with just the D-air and one shine, cause i really can't double shine that good yet

 

[M3RC]

Maybe if their sheild is already hella small.

 

[AltF4]

Hey, I'm wondering how you do the Ledge Drop Double Laser so that both lasers are at platform level. I can do it just fine sort of, but the first one always goes too high and never hits. I know it's a matter of timing, but exactly what is the timing? Like should you get the first laser off on your way up, and the second on your way down?

 

[kamikaze falco]

I think the same question has been asked multiple times lol. dont worry about it though.

 

[Pye]

Hey, I'm wondering how you do the Ledge Drop Double Laser so that both lasers are at platform level. I can do it just fine sort of, but the first one always goes too high and never hits. I know it's a matter of timing, but exactly what is the timing? Like should you get the first laser off on your way up, and the second on your way down?

Haven't been in this thread in ages Glad to see it's still up and running.

Alright, the ledgehop double laser. This one's a toughie (well, not for Shiz, but to those of us without the ability to slow time to imput controller commands...). The first time I did it, I dropped from the ledge with down, jumped with up on the analog, then started mashing B and DIed onto the stage (once you start shooting airborn lasers, tilting the analog will DI only, and you won't start an overB, so don't worry about that).

However, with that method, I found myself hitting B (to start lasering) before I acualy let go of up from my jump, which started a firebird. As you can imagine, that usualy resulted in my death, which got fusterating. Now I drop with down, jump with Y, then slide my thumb over to B, then DI onto the stage. This works very nicely, and I can do it consistently enough to benefit from it in combat. I suggest you try that.

Oh, two tips I give people when learning this: First of all, don't try and learn it without the fastfall first. Always, always do it with fastfall off the ledge. Theres no point it learning to do it slowly, then faster, you'll just have to learn a new timing (at least thats what I found). Second, don't forget that you don't jump imediately after dropping. You need to let yourself fall a little first (to see exacly how far to fall, try finding some Bombsoldier matches on youtube, as he does it quite a lot).

Good luck :D

 

[DaShizWiz]

Thanks for answering questions when I was gone(Pye) it helps out.


Tarheeljks, yes I think it is possible to still get shield grabbed while doing Dair shine repetitively against a shield.

Thank you Halfzy.

Falco_4_life, no you can't break a shield with Dair shines. You can roll out of it pretty easily. Double shining to a dair is much more better IMO, so I do that all the time. Its much harder to roll out of(much harder).

 

[Ryan-K]

Thanks for answering questions when I was gone(Pye) it helps out.


Tarheeljks, yes I think it is possible to still get shield grabbed while doing Dair shine repetitively against a shield.

Thank you Halfzy.

Falco_4_life, no you can't break a shield with Dair shines. You can roll out of it pretty easily. Double shining to a dair is much more better IMO, so I do that all the time. Its much harder to roll out of(much harder).

but you can still c stick buffer roll

 

[KeepSpeedN]

but you can still c stick buffer roll

if the falco catches on u rolling 2 much though theyll just follow it with a dair it or something and punish it.

 

[Ryan-K]

i know but i am just pointing out that its not a whole lot harder to roll out of it.

 

[KeepSpeedN]

ok but its still better 2 do the double shine stuff 2 dair no matter what.

 

[Ryan-K]

yeah because a fox or falco cant sidestep shine if you do 2 shines

 

[DaShizWiz]

Yeah, thats the best way to get away from the Dair shine shine, or Dair shine shine shine dair. C-stick roll would be the best choice for that. But I don't roll with the C-stick even though I think its the best way to roll because its quickest....

 

[falco_4_life]

Falco_4_life, no you can't break a shield with Dair shines. You can roll out of it pretty easily. Double shining to a dair is much more better IMO, so I do that all the time. Its much harder to roll out of(much harder).

thats crap double shining is hard. the only way i can do it is when i hold the controller a funny way n go from b to y with my index and middle finger.

whats the best way to do a double shine since i'm having such a hard time

 

[Rock_Man]

I know this is late, but thanks for the help man. You rock!

 

[DaShizWiz]

Lol, no problem Rock_Man, I am glad I could help you.

 

[Blazey]

In your experience, is there a direction that most people tend to DI towards after being shined?

 

[Cryb]

Hm, as stated before, what would you say is the best way to learn how to double/triple/etc shine?

Every way I've tried has made me want to stab a puppy. In the face. Needless to say, I'm having a hard time learning how to do it.

 

[kamikaze falco]

DaShizWiz I have a question. Pillaring people can do it many different ways. But for example dair, shine, shine, repeat. How do you it? Do you press b y b with your thumb?

 

[DaShizWiz]

Forblaze71, people tend to usually DI backwards if they get shined. Or away from the shine, which is backwards.

Cryb, what I do to do the JC'ed shines, is slide my fingers from Y to B. After pushing down B, just slide your fingers from Y to B. Don't do it from B to Y to B. Do it from Y to B.

Kamikaze, what I just told Cryb. And yeah, I just use my Thumb.

 

[Pye]

No problem Shiz, I'm glad I'm helpful ^_^

Though I do have a question now. A friend of mine (a casual player, but I explained some basic things to him, like perpendicular DI and the utility of the shine) was playing some 1v1s with me, and picked Fox. He didn't know how to waveshine or do anything potentially dangerous with the shine, but he knew it's power anyway, so he started spamming it.

I was using him as a "DIing practice dummy" for the typical anti-fastfaller combo (shine -> WD -> WD -> dair -> shine), when suddenly, I noticed him shining out of it at the shffl dair step (I wait for him to fall slightly from the shine, hit him with the dair, then he gets the shine off and bounces me away after we both land, before my shine comes out).

Seeing as how many technical Falcos use this combo, even at a professional level, I'm pretty sure you aren't suppost to be able to shine out. Otherwise, good Fox players would be shining out instead of resorting to DI, right? I'm pretty sure I checked that my shffls are correct (aka include a ff and an l-cancel), but still he shined out.

Am I missing my l-cancel and not noticing like a noob, or what? :S

 

[Blazey]

Thanks Shiz =]. I'll be using that knowledge extensively over the next 3 days.

 

[DaShizWiz]

No Problem Fortblaze.

Pye, the problem isn't that his shine is quicker then your shine, its just at really early damages, they can crouch cancel your attack, and then do a shine, I'm pretty sure if you started comboing from over 10 or so, like get a shine on him at 10 damage and then start comboing. See what happens then .

 

[kamikaze falco]

you use your thumb huh? lol. Man that's fast.

 

[falco_4_life]

**** u use your thumb to double shine. thats ridicolous my thumb is so ****en slow

 

[M3RC]

Your thumb doesnt really have to be that fast., you just slide it.

 

[Pye]

No Problem Fortblaze.

Pye, the problem isn't that his shine is quicker then your shine, its just at really early damages, they can crouch cancel your attack, and then do a shine, I'm pretty sure if you started comboing from over 10 or so, like get a shine on him at 10 damage and then start comboing. See what happens then .

Can they, really? Whoa, didn't know that. Since he was just holding down and mashing the B button when I put him in those combos, that's probably exacly what was happening, since the constant holding down = auto-CC as soon as possible.

I guess I'll try and throw some lasers or a dair or a nair in before the first shine so he can't CC.

Thanks, for helping me on yet another problem

 

[the_air_up_there7]

Oh so all u have to do is slide ur thumb for multishining? And another question sorry I have to get rid of my doubts, how do u grab the edge when u short hop reverse laser I never seem to get the edge only once in a while.

 

[Pye]

the_air_up_there7, yes, Shiz slide inputs back and forth from Y to B (while holding down on analog of course) to multishine. I do it this way too (though I never do more then 2, maybe 3 if I'm feeling confident, or if I'm winning like 4 stocks to 1, at a time), and it sounds a lot harder to do then it acualy is. Granted, it'll take you more then a few minutes to learn, but within about a week (if you practice maybe 10-15 minutes a day on it), you should be pretty fluent at doing them in pairs/trios, depending on your natual affinity to the motion.

And as for grabbing the ledge with a RSHL, it's all timing. Theres no trick to it or anything. You just have to land close enough to the edge that you slide off, and you'll automatically grab the edge. My guess is that you just land too far away from the edge (or you don't land close enough, if you're falling off).

Just to let you know though, a shineturn to reverse waveshine out of a dash is a MUCH faster way of grabbing the edge then a RSHL, plus it looks just as sexy

 

[Cryb]

Thanks for the help.

I'll try to avoid killing any puppies for at least a week.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Lol Cryb, no problem.

Pye, thanks again for answering another question when I'm not here .

The air up there 7, yeah basically everything Pye said. He explained it pretty good. And JC'ed shines are all about timing, you just hae to get the timing right to do it infinitely. Today I've been practicing breaking shields with them. I figured out a new way kind of to break the shield if they happen to roll out, I wavedash techfollow my opponent, and then do JC'ed shines, so I just techfollow them with a wavedash and then do JC'ed shines. This probably sounds easy but its very hard. I'd say the hardest part about the Shines is the wavedash and techfollowing.