Who is the best grappler in the game?

[MERPIS]

Decided to make this since we have quite a few grapplers in this game
Some of these characters may not be full grapplers.

 

[Nocally]

Where is Mario on your poll?

 

[MERPIS]

Where is Mario on your poll?

Dead in a ditch

 

[Hippieslayer]

mario is d bess

 

[MERPIS]

mario is d bess

mario has so much more to be doing than grab spamming, its just that ally and anti don't show it

 

[Deleted member]

To me, is the king of grappling in that his down throw sets up some big damage combined. I say, deserves an honorable mention since his up throw carries the former move's legacy and his other throws do good damage as well. That is all I can tell y'all youngsters.

 

[Crystanium]

No Ganondorf, huh? It's like his meta-game consists of grappling, tech chasing, and aerials. Ike should be up there in the poll as well. He's another character who uses aerials for zoning, and his jabs are effective enough. I've seen some people who use Ike go for grapples. Ness is very aerial and not even a grappler. His back throw doesn't make him one. Lucas doesn't come off as a grappler, either. As for Falco, I don't use the character, so I don't know his playstyle. You might get away with calling him a grappler in Brawl where he chain-grabbed, but he doesn't seem like a grappler, either.

I'll vote for Bowser.

 

[MERPIS]

No Ganondorf, huh? It's like his meta-game consists of grappling, tech chasing, and aerials. Ike should be up there in the poll as well. He's another character who uses aerials for zoning, and his jabs are effective enough. I've seen some people who use Ike go for grapples. Ness is very aerial and not even a grappler. His back throw doesn't make him one. Lucas doesn't come off as a grappler, either. As for Falco, I don't use the character, so I don't know his playstyle. You might get away with calling him a grappler in Brawl where he chain-grabbed, but he doesn't seem like a grappler, either.

I'll vote for Bowser.

ganondorf is pure garbage

 

[Hippieslayer]

mario has so much more to be doing than grab spamming, its just that ally and anti don't show it

what exactly is all this stuff which they should be doing that they aren't doing which you know would net them more success yet they haven't figured out and/or bothered with despite being top players pretty much since the game came out?

also mario is still the best grappler, being a grappler yet being well rounded enough not to suffer as badly as others from the pitfalls of being a grappler

 

[Crystanium]

ganondorf is pure garbage

That's not a legitimate reason to exclude him from the poll.

 

[Hippieslayer]

That's not a legitimate reason to exclude him from the poll.

yes it is, maybe you should make a new thread called "who is the worst grappler in the game?"

I like your ruthlessly inefficient logic though, if you made a thread about who is the tallest character in the game, you'd labouriously include everyone, even the shortest characters in the poll on account of them being characters in the game.

 

[BSP]

I'm not sure how exactly we define "grappler" in smash but any discussion of it needs to have Mario and Captain Falcon present.

I think a more relevant question is "who has the best grab game?", and that would cover damage from grabs, KO potential after landing a grab, feasibility of landing grabs, etc.

Mario is top tier in any grab situation except at the %s where he doesn't get guaranteed followups but Bthrow won't seal the deal just yet. That being said, everyone is pretty garbage at this % range outside of characters with hoo hahs or the super strong KO throws like Ness, Mewtwo, Villager, etc.

Falcon has to be top 5 for conistent damage off of low % grabs. He can take most of the cast to ~30% for free unless he grabbed you at the ledge. Mid %s, a grab usually = 25% or more, and being offstage or in a juggling situation with Falcon chasing your landing. You could die depending on the situation tbh, either to some 50/50 or getting Nair'd near the blastzone. Then when you hit KO %, Falcon has 3 relevant throws with KO potential and a DI mixup throw. I don't think his grab game is the best, but coupled with his speed and utterly stupid aerials, it deserves mention.

My vote would go something like

Rage Mario > DK > Bowser/Luigi/Non-rage Mario > Falcon > Ness/Lucas/Kirby/anyone with hoo hah not mentioned?

IDK at the tail end. Obviously Ness is best once the opponent hits super high %, but his mid range grab game is easily surpassed by others.

 

[Nemesis561]

yes it is, maybe you should make a new thread called "who is the worst grappler in the game?"

i like your ruthlessly inefficient logic though, if you made a thread about who is the tallest character in the game, you'd include pikachu on account of pikachu being a character in the game

The worst...

 

[HerbsnSpices910]

It's definitely Mario. He gets so much off of his basically lagless grabs. And I hate getting grabbed, which is why I play characters with good air game.

 

[MercuryPenny]

luigi has mario's combos with a superheavy's kill power tbh

 

[MERPIS]

Luigi has so much better combo capability than Mario

 

[Crystanium]

yes it is, maybe you should make a new thread called "who is the worst grappler in the game?"

I like your ruthlessly inefficient logic though, if you made a thread about who is the tallest character in the game, you'd labouriously include everyone, even the shortest characters in the poll on account of them being characters in the game.

Interesting that you didn't even address as to why Ganondorf isn't even a grappler, but instead relied on some poor attempt at insulting me.

 

[Lavani]

Ganondorf has poor grab range, poor mobility to get in range for the grab, poor reward off a grab, and no kill throws. He has a command grab with potentially rewarding character-specific mixups and combos, but it involves making a commitment akin to a Palutena smash attack that loses trades with everything, to then maybe get a followup if you guess right/they miss the tech (or are fighting a character you can just immediately dtilt or something, but that's still more risk than most characters take to get 25%). Having an aerial grab option is usually a big selling point to command grabs; Ganondorf threatens Ganoncide offstage, but onstage he can't land with it, he risks whiffing and falling in the helpless state, and even if he does get a grab, 11 additional frames of endlag deprive him of followups (and I think might allow your opponent to punish on tech, even? It's been years).

Grabbing isn't a core part of Ganondorf's gameplan; he's not a grappler. Even if one were to give him that label, he's certainly not good at it.

 

[Hydgen]

... Just ... grab kill combos and a suicide command grab.

He is the Koopa King of the grapplers.

Cya

 

[Crystanium]

Ganondorf has poor grab range, poor mobility to get in range for the grab, poor reward off a grab, and no kill throws. He has a command grab with potentially rewarding character-specific mixups and combos, but it involves making a commitment akin to a Palutena smash attack that loses trades with everything, to then maybe get a followup if you guess right/they miss the tech (or are fighting a character you can just immediately dtilt or something, but that's still more risk than most characters take to get 25%). Having an aerial grab option is usually a big selling point to command grabs; Ganondorf threatens Ganoncide offstage, but onstage he can't land with it, he risks whiffing and falling in the helpless state, and even if he does get a grab, 11 additional frames of endlag deprive him of followups (and I think might allow your opponent to punish on tech, even? It's been years).

Grabbing isn't a core part of Ganondorf's gameplan; he's not a grappler. Even if one were to give him that label, he's certainly not good at it.

I'm not saying Ganondorf has a good grab. I'm simply referring to the fact that his meta-game consists mainly of using side specials and tech-chasing. Perhaps "grappler" does need to be defined, as BSP put it. (Best Mario I've seen my brother play.) The way I understand "grappler" is one whose entire meta-game is centered around grabbing. When I think of a character like Mario, sure, he can grab and follow-up with combos. A lot of characters do that. Ness, Zero Suit Samus, Samus, Yoshi, &c.

 

[Hippieslayer]

Interesting that you didn't even address as to why Ganondorf isn't even a grappler, but instead relied on some poor attempt at insulting me.

Why should I have done that (I think he IS a grappler, but that doesn't matter)? You claimed Ganondorf being garbage is not relevant for excluding him, but it is. Explaining why Ganondorf is not a grappler is not necessary for his exclusion. Him being garbage constitutes sufficient reason. Now if there was a "who is the the worst grappler?"-thread, then discussing Ganondorfs archetype would be necessary to merit his exclusion, hence my suggestion.

Has it occured to you that the creater of the thread might not be interested in getting into a discussion about a characters archetype when doing so is unnecessary since it is commonly known that said character is not a candidate for being the best at being any archetype? Again, the thread is about who is the best grappler, not about discussing Ganondorfs archetype. Discussing Ganondorfs archetype isn't relevant for the thread, because Ganondorf sucks **** even if he is a grappler.

You seem to have a penchant for the superfluous. If you want to include bad characters in "who is the best"-threads I suggest you make a thread about who is the best swordsman, then you can include mii swordfighter, roy and ike, and if you want to discuss archetypes you could include Greninja as well or something.

 

[Crystanium]

Why should I have done that (I think he IS a grappler, but that doesn't matter)? You claimed Ganondorf being garbage is not relevant for excluding him, but it is. Explaining why Ganondorf is not a grappler is not necessary for his exclusion. Him being garbage constitutes sufficient reason. Now if there was a "who is the the worst grappler?"-thread, then discussing Ganondorfs archetype would be necessary to merit his exclusion, hence my suggestion.

Has it occured to you that the creater of the thread might not be interested in getting into a discussion about a characters archetype when doing so is unnecessary since it is commonly known that said character is not a candidate for being the best at being any archetype? Again, the thread is about who is the best grappler, not about discussing Ganondorfs archetype. Discussing Ganondorfs archetype isn't relevant for the thread, because Ganondorf sucks **** even if he is a grappler.

You seem to have a penchant for the superfluous. If you want to include bad characters in "who is the best"-threads I suggest you make a thread about who is the best swordsman, then you can include mii swordfighter, roy and ike, and if you want to discuss archetypes you could include Greninja as well or something.

I see your point and it's valid. Thank you for going into further detail. I admit I didn't pay attention to the title of the thread.