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That's really interesting, if you head over to the group match up thread in the Ness character discussion the consensus was 65:35 in Marth's favor.Idk much about Ivy, but Marth DOES NOT have a favorable MU against Ness. If Marth is off stage against Ness, consider him dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLToWaf0PIc
as a Marth main from Melee I can say that his edgeguarding can be risky at times. Regardless of disjoints, the fact that Marth relies on his tip a lot is what makes Ness have a bit more of an advantage against him.''Marth has no answer to PK Fire and he's a great combo weight for Ness. Ness' air maneuverability gives him tons of options against a waiting Marth.''
Except a good marth has every answer to pk fire. His strong ground mobility gives him all he needs to avoid pk fire plus ness is combo food for marth, while being an average combo weight for ness. Let's not forget that ness struggles against disjointed characters, and that marth is a prevalent user. I'm not saying its a one way matchup, but marth has all the tools to have the advantage.
I don't know if you're talking about marth edgeguards on ness, but honestly once ness is offstage he aint coming back. Marth only has to abuse his range and stay on the stage. It's not like ness has a lot of options; it's a straight line toward the stage.The least he can do is not get tippered f-smash.as a Marth main from Melee I can say that his edgeguarding can be risky at times. Regardless of disjoints, the fact that Marth relies on his tip a lot is what makes Ness have a bit more of an advantage against him.
It's not so much about the recovery; it's that Ness can space a bit better than Marth can, and Marth relies on NOT getting in close to the opponent. If you're good you can sweet spot the ledge, jump down and do a rising fair to punish his edgeguard.I don't know if you're talking about marth edgeguards on ness, but honestly once ness is offstage he aint coming back. Marth only has to abuse his range and stay on the stage. It's not like ness has a lot of options; it's a straight line toward the stage.The least he can do is not get tippered f-smash.
no. just no. ivy might be marth's worst MU. i have NO idea why the ivy players don't think they win this match for free (because they should). awful, awful MU for marth.Marth definitely beats Ivy.
This is just not true. Ness has a relatively easy time coming back from off stage against Marth so long as he's above the ledge, which is where he almost always will be. Marth's range is completely defeated by Ness' DD and PKF. Sure, Marth has decent ground mobility, but it doesn't help much when Ness is one of the only characters who can safely air camp against Marth.I don't know if you're talking about marth edgeguards on ness, but honestly once ness is offstage he aint coming back. Marth only has to abuse his range and stay on the stage. It's not like ness has a lot of options; it's a straight line toward the stage.The least he can do is not get tippered f-smash.
This is just not true. Ness has a relatively easy time coming back from off stage against Marth so long as he's above the ledge, which is where he almost always will be.
This is just not true. Ness has a relatively easy time coming back from off stage against Marth so long as he's above the ledge, which is where he almost always will be. Marth's range is completely defeated by Ness' DD and PKF. Sure, Marth has decent ground mobility, but it doesn't help much when Ness is one of the only characters who can safely air camp against Marth.
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It really depends on the stage and where he is recovering from. Almost all of Marth's moves can be DI'd so Ness can recover high in which case he can usually drift down without burning his double jump, magnet stall, and mix up his PKT. It kind of requires a hard read if Ness is above the ledge. Below the ledge, yeah, that boy is dead.From personal experience edgeguarding Ness as Marth is as simple as being aggro. If the Ness has no Doublejump he shouldn't be coming back on stage.
I disagree , Ivysaur has zero OOS Options and it doesnt matter that Ivysaur has grab conversions if she can never grab you.Ivysaur clearly wins the Marth MU. Most Ivy's don't play it lamo-style like say Denti. Ivy has super free conversions off of grabs, she has the range to challenge Marth onstage (and don't even get me started on how bad offstage is)
Ivy players just need to man up, and play like Poons.