-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Who is harder? Ness or Ivysaur?
- Thread starter UmmBees
- Start date
Idk much about Ivy, but Marth DOES NOT have a favorable MU against Ness. If Marth is off stage against Ness, consider him dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLToWaf0PIc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLToWaf0PIc
That's really interesting, if you head over to the group match up thread in the Ness character discussion the consensus was 65:35 in Marth's favor.
That's pretty dated inforation, imo. I think it's closer to 55-45 up to 60-40 Ness.
Marth has no answer to PK Fire and he's a great combo weight for Ness. Ness' air maneuverability gives him tons of options against a waiting Marth.
Marth's typical game is to wait for the player to do something punishable, and punish with a grab or a combo starter. Ness can DI out of Marth's combos easily and Marth doesn't have too many follow ups to grabs (DI forward throw down and away). He has two realiable killing moves in fsmash (which is extremely predictable and punishable) and utilt (only works at high percents).
Also, waiting around for Ness to something punishable and then grab him just doesn't work. Just don't attack his shield and be wary of the distance on his fairs and it's not bad at all.
Also, don't recover below the stage coming straight up, you'll eat a dair.
EDIT: Just read through the thread. Yeah, don't listen to that.
Marth has no answer to PK Fire and he's a great combo weight for Ness. Ness' air maneuverability gives him tons of options against a waiting Marth.
Marth's typical game is to wait for the player to do something punishable, and punish with a grab or a combo starter. Ness can DI out of Marth's combos easily and Marth doesn't have too many follow ups to grabs (DI forward throw down and away). He has two realiable killing moves in fsmash (which is extremely predictable and punishable) and utilt (only works at high percents).
Also, waiting around for Ness to something punishable and then grab him just doesn't work. Just don't attack his shield and be wary of the distance on his fairs and it's not bad at all.
Also, don't recover below the stage coming straight up, you'll eat a dair.
EDIT: Just read through the thread. Yeah, don't listen to that.
Last edited:
InfinityCollision
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
- Messages
- 1,245
I don't have a lot of experience against Ness in PM, but Marth doesn't beat Ivy. Even to slight disadvantage would be more accurate.
Last edited:
''Marth has no answer to PK Fire and he's a great combo weight for Ness. Ness' air maneuverability gives him tons of options against a waiting Marth.''
Except a good marth has every answer to pk fire. His strong ground mobility gives him all he needs to avoid pk fire plus ness is combo food for marth, while being an average combo weight for ness. Let's not forget that ness struggles against disjointed characters, and that marth is a prevalent user. I'm not saying its a one way matchup, but marth has all the tools to have the advantage.
Except a good marth has every answer to pk fire. His strong ground mobility gives him all he needs to avoid pk fire plus ness is combo food for marth, while being an average combo weight for ness. Let's not forget that ness struggles against disjointed characters, and that marth is a prevalent user. I'm not saying its a one way matchup, but marth has all the tools to have the advantage.
Last edited:
NessAtc.
Fukou Da...
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 970
- Location
- Vancouver Island
- NNID
- nintenstar98
- 3DS FC
- 4699-7691-7794
- Switch FC
- SW-2476-6260-3913
as a Marth main from Melee I can say that his edgeguarding can be risky at times. Regardless of disjoints, the fact that Marth relies on his tip a lot is what makes Ness have a bit more of an advantage against him.
I don't know if you're talking about marth edgeguards on ness, but honestly once ness is offstage he aint coming back. Marth only has to abuse his range and stay on the stage. It's not like ness has a lot of options; it's a straight line toward the stage.The least he can do is not get tippered f-smash.
NessAtc.
Fukou Da...
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2014
- Messages
- 970
- Location
- Vancouver Island
- NNID
- nintenstar98
- 3DS FC
- 4699-7691-7794
- Switch FC
- SW-2476-6260-3913
It's not so much about the recovery; it's that Ness can space a bit better than Marth can, and Marth relies on NOT getting in close to the opponent. If you're good you can sweet spot the ledge, jump down and do a rising fair to punish his edgeguard.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member
Guest
no. just no. ivy might be marth's worst MU. i have NO idea why the ivy players don't think they win this match for free (because they should). awful, awful MU for marth.
also i hate this ****:
This is just not true. Ness has a relatively easy time coming back from off stage against Marth so long as he's above the ledge, which is where he almost always will be. Marth's range is completely defeated by Ness' DD and PKF. Sure, Marth has decent ground mobility, but it doesn't help much when Ness is one of the only characters who can safely air camp against Marth.
@Umbreon LOOOOL. RIGHT BETWEEN THE LEGS~*~
Ivysaur clearly wins the Marth MU. Most Ivy's don't play it lamo-style like say Denti. Ivy has super free conversions off of grabs, she has the range to challenge Marth onstage (and don't even get me started on how bad offstage is)
Ivy players just need to man up, and play like Poons.
Ivy players just need to man up, and play like Poons.
I recently did an AI tournament for fun, 1v1s with 3 stocks. I was curious (also I main marth and my friend/rival mains Ivy) so I set the two up first round.
Ivy 2 stocked marth.
Later, I tried Marth vs ness, ness is another rival's main, and ness seemed to have a large lead over marth (1 stock 0% to be exact)
Ivy 2 stocked marth.
Later, I tried Marth vs ness, ness is another rival's main, and ness seemed to have a large lead over marth (1 stock 0% to be exact)
NightRaid|tAmA?
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 51
From personal experience edgeguarding Ness as Marth is as simple as being aggro. If the Ness has no Doublejump he shouldn't be coming back on stage.
Last edited:
NightRaid|tAmA?
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 51
It really depends on the stage and where he is recovering from. Almost all of Marth's moves can be DI'd so Ness can recover high in which case he can usually drift down without burning his double jump, magnet stall, and mix up his PKT. It kind of requires a hard read if Ness is above the ledge. Below the ledge, yeah, that boy is dead.
I disagree , Ivysaur has zero OOS Options and it doesnt matter that Ivysaur has grab conversions if she can never grab you.
You can shield press ivysaur , you can even fair lcancel to grab on her shield and she cant do anything beside roll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzhthllC1fc
(Just noticed the Nov8 Date but after 3.5 it's even more easy with the tether change
Last edited:
theluketheory
Smash Rookie
My friend mains Marth and I main Ness. The battles are intense and amazing. A good Marth can punish any Ness. A good Ness can punish any Marth. Goes either way.
SoulBoundX
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2015
- Messages
- 26
There was some serious marth downplaying in this thread . Alot of people n pm downplay marth. Marth is great against anyone in this game. If any character has an advantage against him in this game, it's a slight one that he can over come.
ZGE
Smash Apprentice
LOL if any of you think Ivy beats Marth. Marth is probably Ivy's worst matchup: Marth has all the tools to edgeguard her, can win the spacing game (which is what Ivy is typically all about), and Ivy is combo fodder for Marth. Plus Marth can shut down Razor leaf with a simple jab or just running away. As far as Ivy's dtilt goes, as long as Marth is conscious about his spacing in relation to where Ivy's dtilt would come out, he should be fine. Just based on that alone, Ness is the better matchup. I don't know much about Ness though, someone else would have to comment about that.